Evri/Packlink Parcel non delivery, PAPLOC now Evri Court Claim issued.

[DeeRainbow]

Sure will do, However,  have had difficulties obtaining an email address for them. Is there one I can use, have looked for this but found nothing useful. 

Many thanks,

[BankFodder]

Maybe somebody will help you but I'm afraid I don't know

[DeeRainbow]

Hi Bankfodder and all,

I have sent off my Letter of Claim and so will be proceeding with the moneyclaim on the 19/1/23.

 

I have attached my particulars of claim.

 

I wonder whether I should note my attempts to recover a refund from Ebay here, I am trying to show that Evri's actions have made it impossible to receive a refund from the seller but understand that as the claimant I do not need to prove anything. 

 

Any comments would be appreciated, thank you.

 

The day after Evri received my letter of claim I received an email response to my complaint to them some time ago saying that they are now looking for my package, I have no expectations here, have not responded, and will continue with the MoneyClaim, but I find the timing interesting. 

 

Many thanks,

 

The Claimant X to the value of £31.99 from a seller on Ebay which was arranged to be delivered to the Claimant by the Defendant’s courier service/Packlink.

 

The Claimant was informed by the seller that the purchased item had been delivered and a tracking number was supplied: X

 

The purchased item was not received or delivered to the Claimant.

 

Using the tracking number on the Defendant’s tracking system the Claimant checked the Proof of Delivery details and noted that these were incorrect; the photo provided was not of the Claimant or anyone known to the Claimant and was not taken outside any door to the Claimant’s delivery address. The Verified GPS location map identified a different address to the Claimant’s.

 

The Defendant’s use of incorrect proof of delivery details has made it impossible to obtain a refund from the Seller/Ebay as they have assumed delivery was successful on the basis of the tracking details provided by the Defendant.

 

The Claimant does not wish to pursue Packlink who is registered in Spain and by use of Third Party Rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 is suing the Defendant to recover the full price of the purchased item plus interest as per Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.

Timeline of what happened

17/12/22

Claimant purchased through Ebay item of order number X

Change17/12/22

18/12/22

The product was dispatched.

Change18/12/22

20/12/22

The Claimant was notified by the seller that the product had been delivered. Claimant then checked at home address and surrounding area for the item, which was not found.

Change20/12/22

20/12/22

Claimant contacted the seller to advise her no package had arrived. The seller informed the Claimant that she could not assist as the Defendant’s tracking system is showing the product as being delivered.

Change20/12/22

21/12/22

Claimant entered the tracking number for order X on the Defendant’s tracking system noted that it states delivery was successful but that incorrect proof of delivery details had been uploaded to the tracking number.

Change21/12/22

22/12/22

Claimant attempted to get help from Defendant’s customer service team this could be achieved solely by automated help “bot” with a negative outcome. Phone call from Defendant’s customer service team to Claimant saying they would look for the package, no further calls received.

Change22/12/22

24/12/22

Request for refund for missing order placed with Ebay. Case closed with no refund by customer service team as they judged that the item had been delivered.

Change24/12/22

29/12/22

The Claimant challenged the decision made on 24/12/22 by Ebay, this was rejected and their decision that the item had been delivered on the basis of tracking details was kept.

Change29/12/22

31/12/22

Email complaining about missing item sent to the Defendant’s customer service team. Response provided on 2/1/23 stating that Claimant should contact their retailer to progress a case for missing item.

Change31/12/22

5/1/23

Claimant sent Letter of Claim dated 4/1/23 to Defendant’s postal address with proof of delivery being recorded on 6/1/23.

 

 

[BankFodder]

I've looked at your particulars of claim I'm afraid that something seems rather garbled.

I think you should go through it again carefully and maybe are somebody who is not familiar at all or they may of the explanation and whether they understand. They will be able to indicate are really quite unclear.

[DeeRainbow]

I get that so have taken out parts that are off the central issue. 

i hope this is better.

Many thanks,

 

The Claimant X to the value of £31.99 from a seller on Ebay which was arranged to be delivered to the Claimant by the Defendant’s courier service.

 

The Claimant was informed by the seller that the purchased item had been delivered and a tracking number was supplied: X

 

Despite this information regarding delivery, the purchased item was not received or delivered to the Claimant.

 

The Claimant by use of Third Party Rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 is suing the Defendant to recover the full price of the purchased item plus interest as per Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.

Timeline of what happened

17/12/22

Claimant purchased through Ebay item of order number X

Change17/12/22

20/12/22

The Claimant was notified by the seller that the product had been delivered. Claimant then checked at home address and surrounding area for the item, which was not found.

Change20/12/22

20/12/22

Claimant contacted the seller to advise her no package had arrived. The seller informed the Claimant that she could not assist as the Defendant’s tracking system is showing the product as being delivered.

Change20/12/22

Change21/12/22

22/12/22

The Claimant used the Defendant’s website to advise them of non-delivered package. Phone call from Defendant’s customer service team to Claimant saying they would look for the package, no further calls received from the defendant’s customer service team.

Change22/12/22

31/12/22

Email complaining about missing item sent to the Defendant’s customer service team. Response provided by Defendant’s customer service team on 2/1/23 stating that Claimant should contact their retailer to progress a case for missing item.

Change31/12/22

5/1/23

Claimant sent Letter of Claim dated 4/1/23 to Defendant’s postal address with proof of delivery being recorded on 6/1/23.

 

 

[BankFodder]

1 hour ago, DeeRainbow said:

 

The Claimant X to the value of £31.99 from a seller on Ebay ....

 

 

But for instance, what does this mean?

[DeeRainbow]

Oh gosh, I am very sorry, I got a bit carried away with redacting, and have proof read but must have missed this. Thanks so much for taking the time to read through this. 

I will go through again and re attach.

Many thanks

 

Hello, it is quite pared down now, so hope it is clearer. 

Please do let me know if I have taken anything important out. 

I will then complete the claim on Thursday. 

Thank you very much for your help. 

 

The Claimant purchased an item X to the value of £31.99 from a seller on Ebay which was arranged to be delivered to the Claimant by the Defendant’s courier service. 

The Claimant was subsequently informed by the seller that the purchased item was showing as being delivered on the Defendant’s tracking system and a tracking number was supplied to the Claimant: HXXXXXX

Despite this information regarding delivery, the purchased item was not received or delivered to the Claimant. 

The Claimant by use of Third Party Rights under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 is suing the Defendant to recover the full price of the purchased item plus interest as per Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.
Timeline of what happened
17/12/22
Claimant purchased through Ebay item of order number X
Change17/12/22
20/12/22
The Claimant was notified by the seller that the item had been delivered. Claimant then checked at home address and surrounding area for the item, which was not found.
Change20/12/22
20/12/22
Claimant contacted the seller to advise her no package had arrived. The seller informed the Claimant that she could not assist as the Defendant’s tracking system is showing the product as being delivered.
Change20/12/22
Change21/12/22
22/12/22
The Claimant used the Defendant’s website to advise them of non-delivered package. Phone call from Defendant’s customer service team to Claimant saying they would look for the package, no further calls received from the defendant’s customer service team. 
Change22/12/22
31/12/22
Email complaining about missing item sent to the Defendant’s customer service team. Response provided by Defendant’s customer service team on 2/1/23 stating that Claimant should contact their retailer to progress a case for missing item.
Change31/12/22
5/1/23
Claimant sent Letter of Claim dated 4/1/23 to Defendant’s postal address with proof of delivery being recorded on 6/1/23.
 

 

[FTMDave]

I'll take up the PoCs challenge as I've deliberately avoided reading any other posts about your claim.

 

The first four paragraphs are clear about who the parties involved are and the non-delivery.

 

Do you really need the "Timeline of what happened" part?  IMO it just repeats what is in your main four paragraphs and it's not really relevant how many times you contacted Evri and how useless they were with communications.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by FTMDave
Incorrect info removed

[DeeRainbow]

Thank you that is helpful. The time line is required for the MoneyClaim protocol, I guess you are right, perhaps I can condense this too. I will give it a go.

Many thanks

[BankFodder]

The trick with a particulars of claim is to outline your cause of action- in other words, the legal justification for making your claim without giving too much other detail .

 

 

 

Generally speaking, the defendants will then tend to give away much more of their position because you haven't really given them many clues.

 

Or you really need to say here is that you entered into a contract to deliver a parcel and that they lost it and they won't reimburse you .

 

There are lots of examples on the subform and I'm afraid maybe you still need to do a little bit of reading around.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DeeRainbow]

Thank you, I have been doing lots of reading!

 

I thought at first it was better to have a good case but completely understand now that the less Evri know the less ammunition they have to challenge my claim.

 

I have until Thursday so will continue to read and amend my particulars of claim until I am satisfied.  

 

I will then further update here when I have more information.

 

Thanks again BankFodder for your advice, much appreciated.

[BankFodder]

Thanks for the thanks- don't worry .

You seem to be very tenacious so I'm sure that eventually there will be no problem .

 

With your tenacity and our support, everything will be fine .

 

Your own tenacity is the most important thing though

 

 

 

[DeeRainbow]

Hi, I am ready to finalise my MoneyClaim application and have received the following from Evri support.

My name is Victoria and i am here to help with your enquiry today.

 

I am sorry to hear that you have had to make contact with us in regards to your parcel. I can understand how frustrating this is for yourself.

 

I would like to look into this for you and provide you with an update. I have tracked the parcel and i can see that the GPS is not accurate for the delivery and that the courier has delivered the parcel to possibly the wrong address.

 

I would now advise that you contact the sender of the goods directly and they will be able to look into this on your behalf.

Your retailer will hold all of your information from when you have ordered the goods and Evri do not get passed any details other than the delivery details on the label to show us where the parcel is been delivered to.

 

This is why you are best speaking to them directly so they can arrange a refund of a replacement for any parcels that have not been received.

 

It would have been great if this had been sent to me three weeks ago while I was in contact with Ebay.

 

I will add this email to my particulars of claim. 

 

Many thanks,

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear Victoria,

Reference number XXX

Too late.

Yours sincerely

XXX and

 

18 minutes ago, DeeRainbow said:

 

 

I will add this email to my particulars of claim. 

 

 

 

don't

[DeeRainbow]

Oh, I added a brief summary of the email to my timeline. Thought ok.

I will continue reading mediation experiences until I hear back from them. 

Many thanks

[BankFodder]

The message from Victoria is completely irrelevant .

 

Ignore it.

Simply acknowledge it if you want as I have suggested but otherwise don't let it affect you and don't make any reference to it in your particulars of claim .

 

 

 

[DeeRainbow]

Thank you, nothing they say influences me. 

I will update when I have more info.

Many thanks,

[DeeRainbow]

Hi All,

As expected Evri rejected my claim as "I dont have a contract with them, it is with Packlink". I know this not to be true. I will continue my reading and have said yes to mediation. 

I just wanted to check on one question I was unsure on:

 

Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, i.e. by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements and other documents filed by the parties, making a decision, and giving a note of reasons for that decision?

 

I would say no, but not sure. 

I have attached Evri's response to my claim.

Many thanks,

 

365MC263-claim-response.pdf

[BankFodder]

I would suggest that the answer is no. The issue of third party rights is something which has been raised very often by the defendant and now needs definitive decision by a judge in open court.

 

It's a shame that you have opted for mediation although that was the advice that we have been giving up to now. I think from now on we would suggest in the circumstances that people simply go to trial

[DeeRainbow]

Thank you Bank Fodder, I have not submitted my final response. I can say no to mediation. 

 

[BankFodder]

My own advice to you now would be to reject mediation and to go directly to trial.

On that basis your argument would be that the matter includes an important point of law – the rights of third parties – that the defendant routinely denies third party rights under the 1999 Act – and it is something which now must be considered and decided at trial.
The downside to rejecting mediation is that the defendants could say to the judge that regardless of the outcome of the trial – even if the decisions against them, that you unnecessarily forced it into court and therefore incurred unnecessary costs.
If the judge accepted this then the judge might make an order that you cover your own costs even if you won – whereas in normal circumstances if you are a winning claimant, your costs will be awarded to you.

So I am bringing this to your attention so that you understand the possible risk. In my view the risk is minimal because I think that it is entirely reasonable to continue to trial. I would also want to explain to the judge that the defendant routinely uses mediation and then settles at mediation – simply in order to discourage others from bringing claims at all. I would also explain to the judge that this amounted to a huge waste of the courts scarce resources and that if a judgement was given on the issue of third party rights this would tend to persuade the defendant to settle claims even before they were started.

It is for you to decide which course to take. If you go to mediation then if you stand your ground then I am quite sure you will get all of your money. It would be extremely unusual for the mediation to fail and for you to end up at trial.
If you decided to refuse mediation and to go directly trial then I am sure you would win but there is a very slight chance – maybe 10% – that the judge would want to exercise discretion and demonstrate displeasure at the fact that you had taken up a court source and this will be done by refusing to award you reimbursement of your costs incurred in bringing the claim.

I'm setting this out so that you understand your situation – as far as I am able to see it

[BankFodder]

Just to add – that you should understand that although our interests are generally aligned, by running this forum we are also running a campaign and so we have a wider interest which is to bring this rip-off and dishonest treatment by the courier companies to an end for the benefit of consumers generally.

In this respect, it may be that your interests and ours diverged as your own interests would very reasonably be obtaining the reimbursement of the money which you have lost. There is no criticism here. It is entirely understandable and as I have already said – a very reasonable position to be in

[DeeRainbow]

Hi Bankfodder, I have had  think about it and I will reject mediation. 

[BankFodder]

Obviously you realise that we are not unhappy about the decision – but in an over abundance of caution I'm putting a shout out to my site team colleague @Andyorch who will probably have some comments to make to make sure that you are completely informed as to any risk.

Standby

[AndyOrch]

Having discussed this point already with Bankfodder with regards to the pluses and negatives of rejecting mediation in this type of relatively low-cost small claims track claims, it is an expectation that both parties will consider ADR mediation from the court's stance obviously as to free up court time and expense in hope that the claim can be settled without further involvement of the judicial system and it also shows that you are amicable and open to settling the matter.

 

Opting for mediation does in no way weaken your claim or position or risk the amount claimed and expense of that claim but allows the defendant the opportunity to settle without further costs to themselves. You will always have the final say on whether you accept their offer or whether to reject it and proceed to allocation /trial so in reality its irrelevant if you have opted to participate in mediation and simply becomes a tick box exercise.

 

Settling the matter at mediation will save you further costs with regards to a hearing fee and also safeguard you should you lose at trial and have to face their potential costs in defending the claim.

 

Now to the negatives yes it allows the defendant to defend the claims without being tested at trial and yes it stops the judgments being recorded and used in further legislation to prove that their business model is unfair to consumers. County Court Judgments are not precedent's and will not be considered in determining judgments at County Court level but can be useful in leverage in future higher litigation.

 

From a CPR (Civil Procedure Rules) stance 

 

Proportionality

4. A pre-action protocol or this Practice Direction must not be used by a party as a tactical device to secure an unfair advantage over another party. Only reasonable and proportionate steps should be taken by the parties to identify, narrow and resolve the legal, factual or expert issues.

5. The costs incurred in complying with a pre-action protocol or this Practice Direction should be proportionate (CPR 44.3(5)). Where parties incur disproportionate costs in complying with any pre-action protocol or this Practice Direction, those costs will not be recoverable as part of the costs of the proceedings.

11. If proceedings are issued, the parties may be required by the court to provide evidence that ADR has been considered. A party’s silence in response to an invitation to participate or a refusal to participate in ADR might be considered unreasonable by the court and could lead to the court ordering that party to pay additional court costs.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct

 

 

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