Southern Water Arrears - settlement question - now Third Party Order ? question?

[Dave2019]

I am with Severn Trent Water, and over several years I have managed to build up arrears of nearly £1,400. I'm in my late sixties, I live in social housing, and receive the State pension plus pension credit.

 

Last December, I got a letter from them saying they were preparing to take this to the County Court. I asked them to provide me with copies of all the relevant bills, and I found them to add up to the figure they were claiming. I checked if any of the debt was over six years old and might therefore be statute-barred, but it wasn't. I was fairly sure I'd got letters from debt collection agencies about the arrears, so I wrote to ask if any of them had been 'sold on', but they assured me they hadn't.

 

I should point out here that throughout our correspo0ndence, Severn Trent has been very fair and understanding - I really can't fault them on this.

 

I've looked into the possibility of clearing the debt with a Debt Relief Order, and from what I've read on the CAB's website, it seems I'd qualify (though I realise that I'd have to go to a CAB centre and discuss it with a volunteer to be certain).

 

What I'd prefer to do, however, would be to seek a Full and Final Settlement.

 

This is where I need advice, as I have no idea what figure a utility company like Severn Trent would consider. I can get hold of £450, but that's slightly less than a third, and they might see that as derisory. I might in time be able to find some more, but I want to get this thing out of the way ASAP, as it's already dragged on for nearly six months (and I have to say, Severn Trent has shown commendable patience ).

 

So, can anyone give me an idea of what proportion of a debt a utility company is prepared to accept as a Full and Final Settlement?

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

there is no set figure for F&F.

go in low be prepared to climb a bit.

 

it might pay you to include a very detailed In/out expenditure document.

 

how are you going forward, are you currently paying this years bill ok?

[Dave2019]

I haven't received a bill since I got their letter in December, but the next bill I get, I should be able to pay it.

[dx100uk]

Ideally you should be paying monthly or in 10 payments.

 

You can do this on their webportal go set it up then you won't have a massive bill for 22-23 coming along 

 

Dx

[Dave2019]

Last December, my water company informed me that it was taking me to Court because of the money I owed them.

 

Over the months, I have been trying to negotiate a 'full and final settlement', but no matter what sum I suggested, they weren't  interested.

 

At the beginning of August, they wrote to me to tell me they are selling the debt to a debt collection agency, but confusingly, at the end of August, I got a letter from them asking for payment. it looks as though they changed their mind about selling the debt off.

 

I'm now worried about bailiffs, etc, but I'm particularly concerned about a Third Party Order being applied against my State benefits. I get the State Pension, plus Pension Credit, plus Housing Benefit, plus PIP. So I'd be very grateful if someone can answer the following two questions:

 

1) From what I understand, the Pension Credit is the only benefit from the above that they can apply a Third Party Order to. Have I got that right?

 

2) How much are they allowed to take with a Third Party Order?

 

I'd really appreciate any advice here. Thanks.

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged

 

can we just resit things. as you vanished lasttime

 

so SW successfully got a CCJ ...when?

 

[Dave2019]

Sorry I created a new thread about this - I wasn't sure how to find the old one.

 

I'm pretty sure they didn't get a CCJ or even apply for one, as they said they were going to do back in December. They didn't give me a Court date so that I could appear in order to contest an application, the Court hasn't sent me any word about having a CCJ awarded against me, and Severn Trent haven't told me they got a CCJ. The last four letters I've had were:

 

1) On April 25th they sent me another letter in which they told me (again) that they would be taking Court action against me if they did not hear from me. I responded by offering a Full and Final Settlement.

 

2) On June 27th they wrote to say they were unable to accept a Full and Final Settlement, and notified me of the total amount due. The letter also said my usage had increased since February 2021 and advised me to check for leaks. The letter then said that my case had now been fully reviewed at Stage 1 and Stage 2 of its internal complaints process and said that if I was still unsatisfied, I should contact the Consumer Council for Water.

 

3) On August 4th they sent me a letter titled 'Notice of Impending Debt Sale'. It said that if we were unable to agree to repayment terms, or if I did not contact them, the debt would be sold to a third party.

 

4) On August 30th, they sent me a bill for the current total debt, which suggests they had not sold the debt on.

 

So it would seem from the above that they have not applied for a CCJ.

 

                                                 *******************************************************************************************************************************************

 

On a related note, while I was examining the August 30th bill, I looked at my water usage for the first time, and I was quite shocked at what I saw. It said that my daily usage was 0.71 cubic metres per day. That meant nothing to me, but then it said this equalled 1,250 pints per day! That just can't be right. This is my daily usage:

 

1) Wash dishes twice.

 

2) Boil kettle about six times, but with the minimum possible amount of water - just enough for a mug of tea. 

 

3) Wash face and hands twice, and shave once, with about half a washbasin of water each time.

 

4) Flush the toilet once or twice.

 

Plus, I never use the bath: there's a communal shower elsewhere in the building, not on my meter, and I use that, because I can't get in and out of the bath anymore.

 

This seems to amount to a tiny fraction of 1,250 pints per day. Trouble is, I can't check my water meter, as it's low down at the back of a cupboard, and the one time I got down to try to read it, I had a hell of a time getting back up again.

 

One strange thing: they gave me my daily usage for the August 30th 2022 bill, plus that for the March 11th 2022 bill and the August 17th 2021 bill, and they all showed the same amount: 0.71 cubic metres per day. How can they be exactly the same?

 

Anyway, I hope I've given people enough information to give a clear picture of the situation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

thank you so they are selling the debt?

does it actually say that?

if it does why are you getting worried about a stupid debt relief order???

 

no ccj no debt enforcement of ANY KIND!!

 

a dca is not a baillif

zero powers

 

looks like the debt is now gone

 

as no debt buyer will ever go near a court when there is an exising dispute

 

well done!!

 

dx

 

[Dave2019]

Hi dx100uk

 

Thank you so much for your very prompt and helpful reply.

 

I should point out to you and the other caggers who have helped me is that the reason I don't respond quickly to their posts is that I don't have the Internet at home

 

 - I rely on a communal computer at the other end of my flats complex, and as it's shared, I can't always get on it when I need to.

 

I just want to point out in case people think I'm just not bothering to reply promptly - in other words, that I'm being ungrateful for their help.

 

As to whether Severn Trent are selling the debt - well, they clearly stated this in their letter of August 4th.

 

In fact, that was the only thing that letter was about. But as I pointed out, on August 30th they sent a new bill, in their own name, showing that they hadn't sold it off yet.

So have they changed their minds about selling the debt?

I've no way of knowing.

 

Yesterday I sent them a letter querying this.

 

In the letter I also pointed out the fact that they thought I was using 1,250 pints of water a day, and I gave them details of my daily water usage (exactly as in my previous post here) to show them how ridiculous their claim was.

 

If nothing else, this should reinforce the fact that this case is still in dispute.

 

I'll try to send a copy of this letter as an attachment later this morning, but to do that, I'll have to borrow another tenant's laptop and connect it to wi-fi, as this computer (it's provided by my housing association) doesn't allow you to send attachments, as it's locked into something called 'kiosk mode'.

 

You say a dca is not a bailiff - do you mean 'debt collection agency'?

 

I'm assuming you do, but it's safe to be sure about these things.

 

One other thing: does a debt collection agency have the power to employ a bailiff? I thought it had.

 

Many thanks to you and everyone here who've been helping me. This is a GREAT website!

 

This is the letter I sent,

 

"Customer Care

Severn Trent

PO Box 407

Darlington

DL1 9WD

 

 

14 September 2022

Dear Sir-Madam

 

I would be grateful if you could help me with two questions:

 

1) Last December I was told I owed £1,384.78, but on August 30^th I got a bill for £2,092.17. I do not recall getting any bills in this period.

 

Could you please therefore give me complete details of all the charges you made between December 2021 and August 30^th 2022 so I can see exactly how £1,384.78 became £2,092.17 in just eight months?

 

2) Examining the bill for August 30^th, I found that you claimed my average water usage was 0.71 cubic metres per day, and that that was the equivalent of 1,250 pints or 4,175 cups of tea per day. This is simply absurd.

 

Here is my water usage for the average day:

• I boil a kettle about 5 or 6 times, using only enough for one mug.
• A couple of times a week I boil one or two potatoes.
• I wash the dishes twice a day.
• I wash my face and hands at the washbasin about twice a day.
• I flush the toilet about twice a day.
• I never use the bath or a shower – instead, I use a communal shower away from my flat.

This must surely amount to a tiny fraction of the 1,250 pints you claim I use.

 

I would like to check if there is any leakage, but for that, I would have to mxake two meter readings, and the metre is completely inaccessible to me because of my physical state – it’s nearly on the floor, deep inside a cupboard, and if I lay down to read it, I do not know how I could get back up again.

 

So, assuming you accept that my usage is as outlined above, can you agree that the usage figure you quote must be a wild exaggeration?

 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

So who comes to read the meter? Or how many times has it been read?

 

Have you a record of what the meter read before or when you very first moved in ??

 

Dx

 

 

[Dave2019]

No one has ever come to my flat and asked to read the meter (which is at the bottom of an airing cupboard in the kitchen).

 

There's a thin cable that runs from the meter and through the outside wall, and there are black circular structures on the outside of the building, and in the corridors. I've always assumed that they were a means of reading the water meters remotely. However, I've just looked at the bill I got on August 30th and it says:

 

Previous reading for 28 Feb 2022 - 00764

Latest reading for 30 August 2022 - 00894

 

But strangely, for both figures it says 'estimated reading'. If they really can read the meters remotely, why would they give an estimated reading? They've never contact me asking me to give them a reading.

 

As to the reading when I first moved in, I didn't think to take one, and it was way back in 2010.

 

 

[dx100uk]

you are a renter?

 

they cant rely upon estimates no if there is a meter.... all the time!!

whats the point of having a meter?

 

have you all the bills from day one.

what bills do you know you have paid over the years?

when could this sum date back too?

 

dx