Lloyds TSB - What is the Possibility of Account Closure

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi

 

I feel that I should also write a letter to their Solicitors - Martineau Johnson and also send a copy off with the allocation questionnaire, along with also the CD and Transcript of Peter Mc Namara (Former Head of Lloyds TSB Personal Banking)

 

Stating that I have evidence from cases such as

 

1. Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79,
   
2. Lordsvale Finance PLC vs. Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752, and more recently,
   
3. Murray vs. Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ 963

I also suppose I am claiming that under Section 15 of the Supply of Goods act, that these charges are to be reasonable

I also intend to apply for an injunction against the Bank, incase they proceed to try and close my account

 

As far as I can see, Lloyds re trying to say these are Sevice charges, Is that correct ???

 

What other information should I send off with the Allocation Questionnaire ??

 

The letter to Martineau Johnson, should also be sent off to the Court with the Allocation questionnaire ???

 

 

 

If it is that they are trying to claim this is a Service then the part below from the guidence notes about taking this to court

 

You are arguing that under s.15 Supply of Goods Act the cost of the service is required to be reasonable. S.15 says that where no price is agreed at the time the contract is made, that a reasonable price will be implied.

The cost of blocking a DD and sending letter is most probably less than 50p (or whatever you think that you can argue). The bank is a High Street business. Normal mark-ups on the High Street are 100%. It would not be reasonable for the bank to mark up significantly higher than this without a full and detailed explanation.

The actual cost cannot be very high because the service is highly automated and operates millions of times per year so that the cost is spread and shared widely.

The bank has been invited to provide a detailed breakdown of it costs and it will not do so.

You can bring in useful documents as well where for example the bank has argued that the charges do only allow then to recover their losses. If the bank argues this then it effectively destroys their case that the charges are he reasonable price of a service.

 

As I am only aware that they have provided me the details of such charges to Block a Standing order / Direct Debit and so forth, but they still have not provided me with a breakdown of such costs, and if like many Credit card companies, which I have delt with, they are unwilling to provide such breakdown, suppose that they are aware that they are Not Reasonable

 

 

Any help in formatting a letter to read legally, would be appreciated

 

Thanks again all at CAG, Nice donation on its way once this one is in the BAG:)

[Sophie-Jane]

I been thinking on this one, re writing a letter

 

This is what I've come up with

 

Dear (?????)

Re your letter dated 10th May 2006, I regret to inform you since you will not enter into sincere dialogue referring to these unlawful charges, I now have made a claim against Lloyds TSB at Huntingdon County Court ( ref 6QZ30316).

I will be bringing evidence to the court and one will be a transcript and CD Format of your former head of personal banking - Peter McNamara (BBC Radio in 2004)

I will also reply partly on Section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act, and cases such as

1. Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79,
   
2. Lordsvale Finance PLC vs. Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752, and more recently,
   
3. Murray vs. Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ

Due to taking court action, I will also be claiming the return of all the disputed Unlawful charges levied against my account + interest at 8% per annum, Court Costs, My administration Costs ( Time, Stationery, Postage and Production of Compact Discs for Production at Court)

I will also seek an Injunction against LLOYDS TSB, for any retaliatory action taken / implied after taking a lawful process of the court systems to settle a disagreement between myself and LLOYDS TSB.

Yours faithfully,

Sophie-Jane

 

_________________________________________

 

 

1. Should I make the letter out to their solicitors, or David Just, who is the Assistant Manager who said no prior to Action being taken??
   
2. Is there any other information that I should add?
   
3. Do I send off transcripts of the cases quoted?
   
4. Should I send off all the correspondence that I have sent and received since the DPA request - To the Court?

This will be my FIRST court Battle, and I am desperatly wanting to get EVERYthing Right, so that I can be fully prepaired for Battle if it does get that far.

 

The way I see it, If I send this letter to both David Just and The Solicitors, they may just stand down a little earlier

 

If they did settle

How would I then proceed with getting an injuction against them changing my account or even closing it, would I inform the Judge / Court that the Monetory action is Settled, but I need a injunction in any event that they take retalitory action against my account / me ??

 

Please help, As I really do want to get it perfect, and if I do prove my case 100%, I can then help those who are behind me in this process

 

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far, and to CAG, Once this one is in the BAG, there will be better donation than last

 

Thanks:)

[Sophie-Jane]

I can't find anything on G but I personally put that I wanted to use a tape machine ( cant remember what its called lol ) to play a recording incase my transcript of an interview was challenged.(thinking of macnamara transcript )

 

I am not saying this is the right thing to put , just that I put it there

 

Hi Janet and everyone, This is what I have entered in Section G - Other information

________________________________________________________________

 

G Other Information

 

This case has been brought to the Judge's attention, as I have become aware Lloyds TSB are acting unlawfulling in relation to their charges for various transaction defaults, i.e. Blocking a Direct Debit, Going over the overdraft limits

These processes are automatic, and therefore do not cost Lloyds TSB in the region of £35 for each breach.

It has been estimated that these automated charges / penalties cost banking and credit card institutions in the region of 50 pence to a maximum of £1.

I have asked Lloyds TSB for a breakdown of these costs, and as upto now, I have not been given this information, Lloyds are pretaining that these charges are Service charges, Service charges MUST be reasonable, and that Lloyds TSB must not make a substancial profit from these charges.

I have evidence in the Format of a Compact Disc, and a Transcript of the Compact disc, This is the Former Head of Personal Banking of Lloyds TSB - Mr Peter Mc Namara - (Now Chairman of Moneybox), I wish to use this evidence, so will need to bring along a Compact Disc player for this evidence.

I also bring to the Judges attention the following cases

1.Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79,

2.Lordsvale Finance PLC vs. Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752, and more recently,

3.Murray vs. Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ

The general scope of the law relating to penalties was identified by Lord Browne-Wilkinson giving the advice of the Privy Council in Workers Trust Bank Ltd v Dojap Ltd. [1993] AC 573:

"In general, a contractual provision which requires one party in the event of his breach of the contract to pay or forfeit a sum of money to the other party is unlawful as being a penalty, unless such provision can be justified as being a payment of liquidated damages being a genuine pre-estimate of the loss which the innocent party will incur by reason of the breach. One exception to this general rule is the provision for the payment of a deposit (customarily 10% of the contract price) on the sale of land. ….."

 

__________________

 

Hope that is going to be ok, as I have until the 27th to get this in, so PLEASE, If you feel that I need to change it, LET ME KNOW ASAP

 

Many thanks in advance

[Sophie-Jane]

Please advise on the following for Part G of the Allocation Questionnaire, please let me know if it needs ammending

 

Regards and thanks

Sophie

 

________________________________________________________________

 

G Other Information

 

This case has been brought to the Judge's attention, as I have become aware Lloyds TSB are acting unlawfulling in relation to their charges for various transaction defaults, i.e. Blocking a Direct Debit, Going over the overdraft limits

These processes are automatic, and therefore do not cost Lloyds TSB in the region of £35 for each breach.

It has been estimated that these automated charges / penalties cost banking and credit card institutions in the region of 50 pence to a maximum of £1.

I have asked Lloyds TSB for a breakdown of these costs, and as upto now, I have not been given this information, Lloyds are pretaining that these charges are Service charges, Service charges MUST be reasonable, and that Lloyds TSB must not make a substancial profit from these charges.

I have evidence in the Format of a Compact Disc, and a Transcript of the Compact disc, This is the Former Head of Personal Banking of Lloyds TSB - Mr Peter Mc Namara - (Now Chairman of Moneybox), I wish to use this evidence, so will need to bring along a Compact Disc player for this evidence.

I also bring to the Judges attention the following cases

1.Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79,

2.Lordsvale Finance PLC vs. Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752, and more recently,

3.Murray vs. Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ

The general scope of the law relating to penalties was identified by Lord Browne-Wilkinson giving the advice of the Privy Council in Workers Trust Bank Ltd v Dojap Ltd. [1993] AC 573:

"In general, a contractual provision which requires one party in the event of his breach of the contract to pay or forfeit a sum of money to the other party is unlawful as being a penalty, unless such provision can be justified as being a payment of liquidated damages being a genuine pre-estimate of the loss which the innocent party will incur by reason of the breach. One exception to this general rule is the provision for the payment of a deposit (customarily 10% of the contract price) on the sale of land. ….."

 

__________________

 

Hope that is going to be ok, as I have until the 27th to get this in, so PLEASE, If you feel that I need to change it, LET ME KNOW ASAP

 

Many thanks in advance

[Janet-M]

Please refer to answers to allocation questionaire in the libary .You do not have to put all that.

[Sophie-Jane]

Please refer to answers to allocation questionaire in the libary .You do not have to put all that.

 

Hi Janet

 

Many thanks, Thats a new thread, did not realise it was there until now, suppose have to keep looking in the Library on a regular basis

 

I do intend to fill in section G with the following (edited from previous thread), unless I am advised against doing so

 

____________

 

G Other Information

 

I have asked Lloyds TSB for a breakdown of these costs, and as upto now, I have not been given this information, Lloyds are pretaining that these charges are Service charges, Service charges MUST be reasonable, and that Lloyds TSB must not make a substancial profit from these charges.

 

I have evidence in the Format of a Compact Disc, and a Transcript of the Compact disc, This is the Former Head of Personal Banking of Lloyds TSB - Mr Peter Mc Namara - (Now Chairman of Moneybox), I wish to use this evidence, so will need to bring along a Compact Disc player for this evidence.

 

I also bring to the Judges attention the following cases

1.Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79,

2.Lordsvale Finance PLC vs. Bank of Zambia (1996) QB 752, and more recently,

3.Murray vs. Leisureplay (2005) EWCA Civ

 

The general scope of the law relating to penalties was identified by Lord Browne-Wilkinson giving the advice of the Privy Council in Workers Trust Bank Ltd v Dojap Ltd. [1993] AC 573:

"In general, a contractual provision which requires one party in the event of his breach of the contract to pay or forfeit a sum of money to the other party is unlawful as being a penalty, unless such provision can be justified as being a payment of liquidated damages being a genuine pre-estimate of the loss which the innocent party will incur by reason of the breach. One exception to this general rule is the provision for the payment of a deposit (customarily 10% of the contract price) on the sale of land. ….."

 

____________

 

In doing so, I hope that I clarify the case out to the judge, and hope that it can be settled promptly than being hung out further by Lloyds TSB

[Bean]

Any news Sophie-Jane?

[Sophie-Jane]

Any news Sophie-Jane?

 

Its all quite here with Lloyds

 

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I am sure I will hear something, as per others members threads, I been following Janets thread, and will be following almost to the letter, but ensure that everything is done in 1 letter, but then again, suppose they will draw that one out too.

 

Problem I see ahead, is my Debit card is up for renewal end of next month, so if they are contemplating taking further action, I suppose I would know by the middle of next month.

 

Thanks for asking Bean:)

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi Everyone

 

Friday 28th July - Received same paperwork from Solicitors that MJanet received

 

££ Ok, apart from the charges that they want to apply in August

 

Conditions NOT Accepted

 

My Letter Below

_____________________

 

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

XXXXXXXX

XXXX

XXXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXX

 

Martineau Johnson

78 Cannon Street

London

EC4N 6NQ

 

 

 

 

 

Re – Your Ref – XXXXXXX

 

28th July 2006

 

 

 

Dear Sirs,

I would like to inform you that I have received both of your letters and note your points. However like you I am also quite confident that I can prove my case in court and prove that these are in fact penalties that you are trying to cloak as a service charge. I am also very confident that a judge will also see it this way.

 

Whilst I have to mitigate my loss I am prepared to accept the figure you quote. I will accept this in full and final settlement of this claim. I reject all other conditions you have attached unless your client would like to negotiate a payment for this extra service you are asking from me, as a separate agreement.

I will continue my claim against your clients until such time that your client accepts my terms and has paid the amount I have asked for into my account.

 

I will point out, that ANY retaliatory action taken prior to / after LAWFUL proceedings, I will seek an injunction against LLOYDS TSB (The Bank), with NO FURTHER NOTICE.

And I also point out, that the OFT will look unfavourably at Lloyds TSB for any such action.

 

If Any further charges (1st August 2006 for £60 for example) are applied, I will seek further action against Lloyds TSB, Lloyds TSB will receive a warning letter that the charges are UNLAWFUL, and if not withdrawn within 14 days, Further Action Will commence with No further Communication.

May I also point out that there is no unilateral imposition of confidentiality in these circumstances as you must fully realise and for you to say otherwise is an abusive deception .I will pass any more dis informative correspondence from you to the Law Society who no doubt will decide whether this is a matter of discipline or merely requires more Continuing Education points.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mrs Sophie-Jane

 

 

(Fax Sent)

[Bean]

Looks good Sophie-Jane.

 

Do you have a court date yet?

[Sophie-Jane]

No Court dates as yet

 

Due in Hospital for a week quite soon, and will be incapitated for around a month after, so cannot attend court until around October anyhow, I've entered that onto the Allocation questionairre also.

 

But If my case goes similar to Mjanets, then its only a matter of weeks now, hopefully before I go in hospital

[andrewkrigby]

Hi Sophie Jane, thankyou for your reply regarding myself taking on Lloydstsb. Where do i go to get a copy of the transcript re the interview with Peter Macnamara on the bbc.

I hope you're feeling better soon.

Regards,

Andy.

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi Sophie Jane, thankyou for your reply regarding myself taking on Lloydstsb. Where do i go to get a copy of the transcript re the interview with Peter Macnamara on the bbc.

I hope you're feeling better soon.

Regards,

Andy.

 

Hi Andy, Its in the Library

 

But at your stage of action, there is no use for it yet

 

The Transcript and Sound file for the Case, would only be needed if you attended court action, which is a very low possibility.

 

I was like you, I thought that I better get it sorted, but No need, the solicitors have been in touch, but I have refused the conditions but accepted the £££.

 

But if I do need them I have them, but if I do not, i'll send them on to you, even if mine does go to court, I will still have my copies, which I can send on after the case.

 

Just hold back, follow the processes, and Only if you have to attend court, or they are requested, then that is the time they are needed.

 

Believe me

[Janet-M]

andrewkrigby ,Please start your own thread as you are hi-jacking this one .You can then update it and in the future if you need any help it is much easier if we can see at a glance what has happened so far re your claim

[breadline]

HI Sophie jane

Have read your thread and want to say it has given me much confidence, i am handing in my allocation questionaire tomorrow.

Hope you get an excellent result.

 

(I had written a letter to the solicitor and advised i was following the advise of section A and once again offering contact to settle out of court, but I have had no reply.)

 

Im hoping your case will be a lead marker for my own as they are so close together.

BL:)

[Sophie-Jane]

HI Sophie jane

Have read your thread and want to say it has given me much confidence, i am handing in my allocation questionaire tomorrow.

Hope you get an excellent result.

 

Mjanets thread also gave me more confidence, and having won over half of my cases - NON lost yet, has boosted my confidence 100 fold

 

That is where this site does help, Helping each other, as we all been there, No money due to charges being applied, and struggling to keep afloat to stop another batch of charges being applied.

 

(I had written a letter to the solicitor and advised i was following the advise of section A and once again offering contact to settle out of court, but I have had no reply.)

 

I have not done this, They responded to me first, Proving I've the upper hand in this case.

 

Im hoping your case will be a lead marker for my own as they are so close together.

BL:)

 

MJanet is in front of me, I'm following her thread, but in doing so, I've gone a bit further, as in pointing out that I will not recognise further charges unless they can prove them to be accurate - which of course they will not.

 

_______________

 

You may wish to use the Message in Post 31, in Section G

That is what I've put, and note, I can send on the CD and Transcript, as quite possibly, I may not need it.

 

But Wait until IF you get a court date, PM me for the Cd and transcript only then, I will send it on 1st class

 

I still say the OFT ruling of £12 where they would interviene is still seen as excessive, where the process only costs around 50 pence.

 

So I'm waiting, they have till Friday 11th to respond - Hope they do, as i'm in hosp on Saturday, and I really want to get another letter in before hand

[Sophie-Jane]

Had phone call from MJ today offer full ££ in settlement

 

They still wanted to keep a clause in

 

Clause 3 - Maintain Account in agreed limits

 

My arguement is, Your wages are late in, a DD or SO are going out when you get paid, SO How do you stop these payments when Your wages / payment is late, and the automated process has kicked in at before 3am - (Internet banking)

 

His responce - Its not the banks fault,

 

I said Its not mine either, and even hen I transferred money over at 3am, it still was charged

 

 

 

So I ended the call saying that we are not getting anywhere here, and that I will let a Judge decide on the case

 

 

Just wished it was settled prior to Hospital on Sat, Never know, I can hope that I see something on the doormat on Saturday

[lancsman]

Stick to your guns girl they would rather not go to court as we know i bet they will drop the conditions,ive had a "stay"from the judge its supposed to give both parties time to settle,i,d written a letter plus included the copy from court and after reading more of your thread i,m hanging fire till friday then if theyve not written i,ll send it.

best of luck with hospital girl.like your truck (well i would i,m an HGV mechanic!)

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi Lancman

 

You better be wearing the gloves when dealing with my little truck

 

Thanks

[lancsman]

So is that your ACTUAL truck m dear it,s a beaut.we could line up all those nasty unfeeling immoral bank execs under yourwheels and let it roll!!!

Naughty john can,t do that its against the law...

Hang on so are excessive charges on our accounts suppose its all right then.

lets see what we both get in the post today then?

My you were up early today weren,t you

[Sophie-Jane]

There are nothing wrong with excessive charges at all

 

IF you can get away with it,

At least Robin Hood supposed to of rob the rich and gave to the poor

 

And John, I wish, My employer would not be so generous

[Sophie-Jane]

Got a letter after the telephone conversation on the 8th aug

 

Here is my reply - I welcome any comments

 

 

Dear Sirs.

 

In reference to your letter/s dated 8th August 2006.

 

I Accept the Figure you quoted £814:47 plus £0:17 per day until the case is settled and credited into my account.

 

I do NOT accept the following conditions which you have attached.

 

Number 2 – Your account is Reviewed – Account is ok as it is

 

Number 3 – Maintain account within current credit limit – As I explained, If a Payment is late in, i.e Wages / Salary and DD’s or SO or other payments are due out on that same date which payment was supposed to be credited, Down to NO fault of my own, and I understand the Bank, I cannot agree fully with this Condition.

 

Since you are either unwilling to settle with NO conditions, I will therefore see you in court

 

Like you I am also quite confident that I can prove my case in court and prove that these are in fact penalties that you are trying to cloak as a service charge. I am also very confident that a judge will also see it this way, and also amend the Total of the Claim to the new above Total.

 

The Amount owed by Lloyds at £814:47 as of 8th August 2006 and interest also charged at a daily rate of £0:17.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

They have dropped the confidential clause / condition,

 

text size changed

[Janet-M]

They can ask you to have an account review but you can refuse it whilst you have an ongoing claim but say you will after the claim is settled ( do not accept this as a condition though )

 

You have a duty to run your account in order so I would not put that you don't intend to in this letter , just deal with any future charges when they happen.

 

Just write back saying something on the lines of ...

 

I note your points but wish to advise you once again that only full unconditional settlement will result in me withdrawing this claim.may I also point out that interest is accuring at a daily rate of XXp

 

I will not agree to an account review whilst this claim is ongoing

[Sophie-Jane]

Ok Janet

 

Just sent this one off by Fax to MJ

__________

 

Dear Sirs.

 

In reference to your letter/s dated 8th August 2006.

 

I note your points but wish to advise you once again that only full unconditional settlement will result in me withdrawing this claim may I also point out that interest is accuring at a daily rate of 17p.

(The Amount owed by Lloyds at £814:47 as of 8th August 2006 and interest also charged at a daily rate of £0:17)

 

I will not accept to an account review whilst this claim is on going–Note this will only be after recovery period after hospital admittance – approx 6 weeks after the 13th August 2006.

 

Like you I am also quite confident that I can prove my case in court and prove that these are in fact penalties that you are trying to cloak as a service charge. I am also very confident that a judge will also see it this way, and also amend the Total of the Claim to the new above Total.

 

Yours faithfully,

[lancsman]

best of luck chuck think youl get your just desserts(deposit on a nice truck?)you wish n e way,Mjaets good advice there. bbfn.

P.S.wot do u drive?