EVRi lost my £408.99 laptop PAPLOC/Claimform issued ***Settled in full before court hearing***

[BluBear]

 

I wanted to send a laptop back for a refund and chose to go through EVRi as they offered the best rate for the size of the parcel.

 

I chose not to get it insured as I'd heard about it not being enforceable and a waste of money, especially as it only covered up to £300.
After sending it off I was contacted by the laptop company saying that I need to get it back as the address they had listed on their website is no longer where they are based.
I got in contact with EVRi straight away (same day) to try to resolve this.

Parcel was sent off on the 24th of June, it was out for delivery on the 28th or 29th so I called EVRi and they were able to contact the courier to stop him delivering it, I was assured my parcel would be with me within a week.

I checked the tracking on the 2nd and it said the parcel had been delivered to the neighbour of the address on the parcel, I called them as soon as I saw it and they raised it with depo for someone to collect the parcel and send it back to me,

I have confirmation that it was retrieved and returned to depo on the 6th.
I then checked tracking again and it had been redelivered to the same address on the 8th so I contacted them as soon as I found out, and they had to raise it with the depo once again.

I didn't hear anything from them for a few days so I called on the 20th and they told me they had lost it and would send me a claims form and that I would get the value of my parcel as well as postage costs returned to me.

My claim has been approved today but they are only offering me £20 for the laptop, plus the £6.80 postage fee.

I needed to have this parcel sent off to the retailer by the 16th as that was my last day of being eligible for a refund, and because of EVRi's series of mess ups I wasn't able to meet this deadline and have now lost out on £408.99.

Is there anything I can do to get the rest of the money back?

 

[BankFodder]

Please notice that I have had to restructure your text and introduce spacing to make it readable – especially for people using the small screen.

Please will you make sure that your posts and future are properly spaced and punctuated. Thank you.

It's a complicated story – but it certainly seems that Hermes managed to lose your laptop while it was in their care and so you will be able to get the value of your laptop back.

We have lots of Hermes stories on this forum and so please will you start reading them up – probably at least six or seven of them. Take your time and understand the principles.
Also, at the top of the forum you will find a sticky thread which is about the enforceability of insurance.

It is important that you read this because you quite rightly did not take up their insurance offer – but when you sue Hermes – which you will certainly have to do, they will defend mainly on the basis that you didn't take out any insurance.
You will have to have these arguments ready in order to knock them back.

You will certainly be able to recover the value of your laptop and the delivery fee and court costs. You will understand the whole claims journey when you read the other stories.

However, I don't think that the refund that you are hoping to get is recoverable.

Can you tell us the basis on which you claimed the refund? Who did you purchase it from?

 

Incidentally, I should have pointed out that if you get a refund of the value of the laptop from Hermes, then I don't see that you are out-of-pocket. Have I misunderstood something?

[BluBear]

I bought the laptop through Wowcher, who were selling the offer on behalf of Megamax Marketing. I wanted a refund for it as the battery doesn’t last long and I couldn’t use it as the software is really old, which I wasn’t made aware of at the time. 
 

My understanding of the process is that my next step will be to send Hermes a letter of claim (currently drafting) stating they have 14 days to give me a satisfactory reply or I will take them to the small claims court. 
 

I need to write my particulates of claim ready to send through on day 15. 
 

Then prepare to go through mediation and not let Hermes get away with not paying the full cost of the item, postage and fees. 
 

If Hermes do pay then I won’t be out of pocket, so that will be the end of this. 

[BankFodder]

If you follow our guidance then Hermes will pay. As long as you are prepared to stand your ground.

 

Your first step is to make a formal complaint to Hermes. Don't make any threats. Don't set any deadlines. Simply point out what has happened and that you want your money back.

 

If they don't reply by about 10 days or if they knock you back then come here and then we will go through the letter of claim.

However you may as well draft your letter of claim if you want and also your particulars of claim and we will check them so that you are completely ready to go

[BluBear]

A complaint has been sent to Hermes, and I have drafted my letter of claim as well as particulars of claim for when they're needed.

Hermes Letter of Claim.pdf Particulars of Claim.pdf

[BankFodder]

The letter of claim and the particulars of claim are fine.

It looks as if you are ready to go.

Let us know what happens in 10 days time

 

 

 

 

[BluBear]

Hermes finally replied. As expected they won’t refund the full amount as I didn’t take out their insurance.

 

I have also received my £26.70 compensation that they so generously offered.

[BankFodder]

Okay. Send the letter of claim. Register on the moneyclaim website and start preparing your claim.

They are there won't respond to the letter of claim or they'll send you some feeble rubbish and say how sorry they are that you are suffering so badly blah blah blah.

Get ready to click the claim off on day 15.

If you've done all the reading then you know how the story goes.

[BluBear]

Just wanted to update, I didn't hear anything from them in regards to the letter of claim, but I sent it 1st class signed for so I have proof that it was delivered to them. I submitted the claim on day 15 and have now received an acknowledgement of service,  as expected they are going to defend all of the claim. 

 

Looking forward to being told it's my fault for not taking out insurance and arguing with the mediator for a while. I'll give an update once I have received their defence, thanks for the help so far.

[AndyOrch]

Topic open.

[BluBear]

I’ve got my mediation tomorrow. I’m going stand my ground on that I’m here to stop it from going to court and incurring more costs for Hermes and not to negotiate on my rights. 

 

I have bullet points ready to argue against anything they state that stops me getting my money back, hopefully it’s a short one. 

[BankFodder]

Maybe you would like to set out your bullet points here so we can doublecheck.

[BluBear]

I am here to negotiate on not taking Hermes to court, and making this even more expensive and embarrassing for them when they lose once the courts agree their insurance is an unfair term, I am not here to negotiate on my rights, and will not accept any payment less than £438.99 plus interest. That’s my offer, if they don’t agree to it than they should say so and I will take them to court.

 

The insurance requirements are unfair and therefore unenforceable terms.

• Hermes are expecting me to pay them as the service provider to allow their staff to breach our contract, either due to negligence or criminality.
• The insurance requirement imposed is intended to remove my rights under the Consumer Rights Act that the service they provide should be carried out with reasonable care and skill. The insurance attempts to exclude Hermes liability and is contrary to section 57 of the consumer rights act
• Due to the value of my parcel, it is not unreasonable to think it may have been stolen by a Hermes employee, this is not only a criminal act but also tort. It is unfair of Hermes to expect me to be responsible for the torts of their own employees.
• It's completely unfair and also unenforceable at law to rely on their prohibited items list to justify refusing compensation for an item which is lost.

 

[BankFodder]

45 minutes ago, BluBear said:

 

 

• It's completely unfair and also unenforceable at law to rely on their prohibited items list to justify refusing compensation for an item which is lost.

 

… And when the nature of the item has absently no effect on the risk of it being lost.

On the other hand, it may well be that Hermes puts laptops on their prohibited items list because they realise that there is a big chance of it being stolen by their own employees. And yet they want you to insure against that eventuality!

[BluBear]

Just had my third call with the mediator, Hermes are dead set on not compensating for the entire amount as the laptop is on the prohibited items list. They have offered me a payment of £126.70 as a gesture of goodwill.

 

I've told the mediator what's written above and that I will not accept that payment, she's speaking to them again at the moment.

 

Their whole defence is based on laptops being prohibited.

[BankFodder]

Good for you. You're looking forward to challenging these unfair terms in court and inviting a judge to consider their fairness or otherwise.

[BluBear]

I have shown that I'm being flexible at least, since the mediator keeps repeating I agreed to that, as i've offered to take £8.99 off the claim as I'm pretty sure I valued the laptop at £400 not £408.99 when I paid  for postage.

[BankFodder]

You should ask the mediator to ask Hermes why they are prohibited.

I think we would all like to know the reason for the existence of various items on this prohibited items list.

I think it is simply there to protect Hermes from the criminality of their own employees

[BluBear]

Will do, if only they would admit to that 

[BankFodder]

Of course they never will – but I'll bet you it's a question which has never been asked. Tell them that you will be asking that question now and also you will be asking it in court and the judge will want to know as well. So will the press.

[BluBear]

So they're now offering me £226.70, which includes the £20 compensation, £6.70 postage (they've already paid me this even though I didn't accept it, but I did deduct it from the claim), £100 as a good will gesture, and £100 to cover the cost of mediation and interest plus a bit extra.

 

They are confident that if this did go to court then the judge would accept that in their terms and conditions it does say they don't cover laptops. I asked her to ask them why the prohibited items list exists, she reckons for "insurance" purposes but will ask anyway.

[BankFodder]

Well stand your ground. Tell them you are equally confident that the judge will confirm that the terms are unfair. Tell them that you are well aware that the consequences for Hermes and the rest of the courier industry would be catastrophic with claims in the future and also retrospective claims from people who have previously been refused.

[BankFodder]

And it's for "insurance purposes" when it's the customer who pays the insurance – and even if you declare it is a laptop, they still are prepared to tell you insurance on it.

These people are lost in the maze of their own lack of logic

[BluBear]

It's going to court, they don't agree and we're too far apart to come to an agreement. In their eyes its been delivered to the address it was sent to, even though I have the messaged from them and the couriers asking where it was delivered to so they could pick it up, and then another one saying its been lost.

 

The list of items is a commercial agreement - more trouble to deliver than what is worth

[BankFodder]

Okay well you stood your ground – I'm sorry you didn't get a result straightaway that we will support you all the way to court – if it gets that far.

You may have read elsewhere on the forum that I'm struck by the fact that we've had several cases where mediation is apparently failed and then we never hear from the claimant again and I rather think that Hermes are eventually settling but on conditions of confidentiality because they don't want it on this forum.

Thanks for the fantastic blow by blow account of the mediation process. That was really interesting and a lot of people will benefit.