...and so it begins

[dcefx]

Hi all, loving the site and glad i found it.

 

Just sent off the opening letter to Lloyds TSB with regards to our business account - over the last year we've clocked up £1400 in charges, almost exclusively as a result of their policy of taking debits out of an account BEFORE applying cleared credits to an account.

 

i.e. we pay a cheque in to the account and it's due to clear on wednesday, on wednesday they take all the transactions (ie cheques and DD's we've writen) out of the account but effectively using tuesday's balence and completely disregarding the large payment going thru their system that is technically "cleared".

 

We've got a secondary action against Nationwide as we had a business investor account which got laoded with penalties after we bounced some direct debits from the above account.

 

fingers crossed.

 

t

[dcefx]

Hi all, loving the site and glad i found it.

 

Just sent off the opening letter to Lloyds TSB with regards to our business account - over the last year we've clocked up £1400 in charges, almost exclusively as a result of their policy of taking debits out of an account BEFORE applying cleared credits to an account.

 

i.e. we pay a cheque in to the account and it's due to clear on wednesday, on wednesday they take all the transactions (ie cheques and DD's we've writen) out of the account but effectively using tuesday's balence and completely disregarding the large payment going thru their system that is technically "cleared".

 

We've got a secondary action against Nationwide as we had a business investor account which got laoded with penalties after we bounced some direct debits from the above account.

 

fingers crossed.

 

t

[BankFodder]

[BankFodder]

[Guest]

I have to say, I know of NO other business that conducts half of its business in the middle of the night and the other half during normal office hours, but banks ALWAYS debit between midnight and 1am (more evidence that it's all done by computer) and always credit after opening time at 9am - more evidence that the crediting of accounts is a manual system (so they don't make a mistake and actually GIVE someone any money) but debiting is entirely automatic.

 

In any other line of business you'd expect that the close of business (4-30 to 5pm) would be the cut off time, and that if something went out and something was paid in it would all show up at the same time.

 

But the banks cheat, and now we've caught them, let's wring the money they've been fleecing back out of them.

[Guest]

I have to say, I know of NO other business that conducts half of its business in the middle of the night and the other half during normal office hours, but banks ALWAYS debit between midnight and 1am (more evidence that it's all done by computer) and always credit after opening time at 9am - more evidence that the crediting of accounts is a manual system (so they don't make a mistake and actually GIVE someone any money) but debiting is entirely automatic.

 

In any other line of business you'd expect that the close of business (4-30 to 5pm) would be the cut off time, and that if something went out and something was paid in it would all show up at the same time.

 

But the banks cheat, and now we've caught them, let's wring the money they've been fleecing back out of them.

[dcefx]

stage 2...

 

A phone call today from our business manager telling us that they won't be refunding the charges etc & that these were "published when you opened the account and have not changed". Then giving me some (obviously from a script) legal speil about how if i were to take legal action i would be responsible for costs etc & it would be very expensive.

 

I've asked for a written response just confirming the position and their reasons for dismissing my claim but they're hesitant to provide the same.

 

So on Monday it's off to the court-house to file my claim......

[dcefx]

stage 2...

 

A phone call today from our business manager telling us that they won't be refunding the charges etc & that these were "published when you opened the account and have not changed". Then giving me some (obviously from a script) legal speil about how if i were to take legal action i would be responsible for costs etc & it would be very expensive.

 

I've asked for a written response just confirming the position and their reasons for dismissing my claim but they're hesitant to provide the same.

 

So on Monday it's off to the court-house to file my claim......

[BankFodder]

Be prepared to go to court - just in case

[BankFodder]

Be prepared to go to court - just in case

[dcefx]

I've taken people to the small claims court many times so i've got no problems or worries there. I've just got to spend the weekend reading up on this one now.

 

t

[dcefx]

I've taken people to the small claims court many times so i've got no problems or worries there. I've just got to spend the weekend reading up on this one now.

 

t

[BankFodder]

Excellent

be aware that the consumer related legislation doe not apply to a business account.

So you have to rely mainly on Common law and UCTA 1977

[BankFodder]

Excellent

be aware that the consumer related legislation doe not apply to a business account.

So you have to rely mainly on Common law and UCTA 1977

[dcefx]

Just an update - we got the useual slew of letters back from Lloyds saying that the charges were in line with T&C etc and as you all know we stuck to the original timescale and now have litigation going thru.

 

Today out of the blue they've sent us a letter as follows...

 

Dear DCEFX

Further to *********'s letter of the 9th March we have received a claim form from Leicester County Court. As you have now decided to pursue your concerns through the Courts we will not be responding to you regarding your complaint about charges.

 

Our Group Financial Crime Unit will respond to the Court within their required timescales.

 

Yours Sincerly

 

******

Service Recovery - Assistant Manager

 

It's worth pointing out that they ARE dealing with this business action in a different way to the consumer actions - they're also clearly trying to intimidate us by mentioning the FCU when clearly this is nothing to do with that department.

 

We'll send an acknowledgment to their letter and include a comment to the effect that we would consider negotiating a settlement so that we can show in court that we've tried every amicable solution.

 

The court claim is still going through tho and that clock is ticking.

[dcefx]

Lloyds have filed an acknowledement, requested the full 28 days to prepare & allocated it to their solicitors - Martineau Johnson, 78 Cannon Street, London.

 

Although they are an "legit" solicitors the service address is that of an office bureux in london

 

t

[Empire Strikes Back]

Jolly good luck to you, we are going for them as soon as we can sort it all out. Up to £17K and still counting. They are real nasties. We are hoping they will chase us for overdraft which amount to same as charges. We are fed up with the bullying tactics they use. We're just a small family firm trying to make a living. There must be hundreds more out there like us.

[dcefx]

Just to update you we have received a letter from their solicitors as follows...

 

".... The Bank will be defending these proceedings on the following grounds:

 

1 the fees that you are seeking to recoup are properly incorporated into your contract with the Bank. When opening your account you were provided with details of the banks charges and by using your account, you accept those charges; and

 

2 when you make a payment (whether by cheque, debit card or any other means) from your account when you have insufficient funds to cover it, you are effectively making a request to the bank for an increased overdraft. It is for the bank to decide whether or not to accept this request. If it meets your request, or indeed where the request is declined and the item is returned to your account you must pay the necessary charges. The issue of penalties only arises as a matter of law where there has been a breach of contract. No breach of contract has occurred between you and the bank; the bank is merely providing another service, for which there is a charge. The charges are not penalties and therefore need not be a pre-estimate of the banks loss.

 

3 The unfair contract terms act 1997 and the Unfair terms un consumer contracts regulations only apply to those contracting as consumers not business customers. s15 of the supply of goods and services act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; there are specific terms concerning those charges, set out in the banks charging leaflet.

 

yours faithfully....."

 

Interesting choice of defence....

 

There is an additional dialogue underway to attempt to broker an out of court settlement which seems to be along the same lines as everyone else has been offered.

[BankFodder]

Did you get my pm suggesting that you contact me before you return the allocation questionnaire?

[dcefx]

As mentioned an un-official dialogue has been continuing and the terms of an OOC settlement has been agreed - just waiting for all the processes to be completed so we can mark this one as settled

[dave]

3 The unfair contract terms act 1997 and the Unfair terms un consumer contracts regulations only apply to those contracting as consumers not business customers. s15 of the supply of goods and services act only applies where there is an implied term as to the consideration; there are specific terms concerning those charges, set out in the banks charging leaflet.

They are quite correct. As a business account customer you should rely on the case law, not the UTCCR's.

[dcefx]

//sigh//

 

the UCTA would apply - you're correct that the UTCCA wouldn't apply but as i've touched on in this post and elsewhere the defense they submitted was riddled with errors & didn't actually tally up to the assertations made in our claim - this citation being a prime example.

 

This is all by the by though as it does all seem to be tied up now.

[dcefx]

This topic was closed on 03/05/19.

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