A Shade greener leased boiler - terms & conditions

[shooter67]

I have been renting my boiler from ASG for the past 8 years,

they contacted me in November to arrange an annual service to my boiler, the only date available was 24th Feb 2021,

 

I contacted them to arrange another date as I can't be there on that day, they where rude, abrupt & would not budge from that date & said if I did not have a service on this date my warranty would be null & void & I would be liable for the cost of the boiler & also be charged £75 non service fee.

 

However their terms & conditions state that an annual service will be carried out, as my first service was 18th January 2014 they should have serviced my boiler by 18th January this year, have they breached their own terms & conditions?

[BankFodder]

We hear nothing good about this company. We have the distinct impression that the business model is really about making profits out of the finance arrangements rather than any real interest in the boilers.

From what you say, in respect of the apparent missed date of 18 January, I would say that yes they are in breach of their own terms and conditions.

Not only that, I'm quite sure that any judge would imply into the contract a requirement of reasonableness in fixing a service date. In other words, I can scarcely imagine that any judge would say that you have to accept the date which they offer unilaterally and if this is what they have insisted upon, then I would say that that would be a breach of an implied term as well.

The problem with this company seems to be holding them to account – that if you would like to begin a legal action against them then we will be extremely pleased to help you.

I would suggest that you have got an action for their failure to carry out the service by the due dates – and secondly, by their unreasonable refusal to be flexible so that there should be a mutual accommodation of a convenient date for carrying out a service.

Have you got their threats in writing? Or was it simply on the telephone?

[shooter67]

Thanks,This was thier email to me;

 

 

 

Customer Ref:

Dear Mr *****

Thank you for your email today.

Many of our customers have been instructed to either self-isolate, have travel restrictions and/or have been shielding etc. This has resulted in high demand of due and overdue services. All members of staff are working hard to ensure boilers are serviced and maintained whilst operating with fewer members of staff than normal due to the pandemic.

To ensure your Gas Safe and warranty checks take place, we have instructed Viessmann, the boiler manufacture, to service the boiler in replacement to our own service engineer and to ensure we are meeting the terms and conditions of our agreement during these turbulent times.

I can see from our records you called our service line yesterday morning regarding this matter. The information given during this call was correct. The boiler service which has been arranged to take place on 24/02/2021 will be conducted between the hours of 08:00 – 17:00.

Whilst I appreciate the timeslot is not the same as the original appointment slot allocated, we are giving you 10 weeks’ notice to make arrangement for the boiler service to take place.

I cannot accept your claim that by not allocating an AM or PM slot is not fulfilling our obligations of the Agreement as we are not refusing attendance to service the boiler. Under Schedule 1 – The Company’s Responsibilities and Obligations point 8 it states:

“The Company will provide an annual service free of charge to check the effectiveness of the Equipment”

The agreement does not state anywhere we are under obligation to allocate any specific appointment timeslots.

However, the agreement does state access must be granted to allow for the service to take place as mentioned under Schedule 2- The Customer’s Responsibilities and Obligations point 14, 17 and 17.3 where it states:

“The Customer shall allow the Company (or its appointed agents) reasonable access to the Property in order to carry out such maintenance, repairs and any remedial works whatsoever in relation to the Equipment.”

“In the event of any of the following happening, the Customer shall pay all sums payable under this Agreement including instalments which are overdue or are yet to become due.”

“Failure by the customer to comply with any of the responsibilities detailed in Schedule 2”.

Please be advised if the appointment is cancelled and not rearranged for an appointment of the same time scale or access to the engineer is not granted access to your property the boiler warranty will become null and void and all sums due.

Kind regards,

 

[BankFodder]

Well it's a load of nonsense.

Littered with unfair – and unenforceable terms.

The penalties that they are proposing are extortionate – and are exactly that – Penalties – and are unenforceable as penalties and also because they are unfair terms. They don't reflect any administrative losses which might be occurred in the event that the action they contemplate could ever be construed as a breach of contract.

Secondly, I see that you are required to allow them reasonable access to the property for the purposes of the maintenance. Absolutely correct. However, "reasonable access" does not only apply to permitting physical entry to the property, it also includes, in my view, a reasonable negotiation for a mutually satisfactory date. In other words I'm taking a holistic and entirely reasonable view of "reasonable access".

These people are tyrants – or attempting to be.

Finally, the final paragraph: "Please be advised if the appointment  is cancelled…" Is in direct contradiction of what they are saying because they are expressly saying that an appointment can be cancelled and then rearranged.
So in one breath they are saying that the time that they have proposed is fixed and cannot be changed. On the other hand, by their own terms and conditions, they are accepting that it can be cancelled and then rearranged.
This contract was written by children.

You say that they contacted you November to make the appointment and their range 24 February.
I understand that at the time you agree to that date and subsequently you find that it is not a convenient date. Is this correct?

You have then tried to contact them to cancel the appointment and to rearrange – is this correct?
 

[shooter67]

Yes that is correct. I contacted them in early December, told them I had saved half a days holiday from work for the appointment, as first arranged, & that I had no other holidays until April,,, but any Friday would be a good day for a service, or any other date for a half day service,which gave them 10 Fridays to visit my home or allocate a half day for another day of the week.

[shooter67]

 

Dear Mr *****

Thank you for your prompt response to my email.

Unfortunately, we cannot extend the warranty any further and therefore we cannot offer an appointment for the month of April.

As per my previous email, if the service does not go ahead this will result in the boiler warranty becoming null and void.

 

Kind regards,

******

A Shade Greener Boilers LLP
Sterling House
Maple Court
Maple Road
Tankersley
S75 3DP
The information in this email may not represent the views of A Shade Greener Boilers LLP. This message is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately, and then delete this Email from your system. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose, or disclose its contents to anyone. Thank you for your co-operation. Please think before you print and help make our world a shade greener!

Privacy Notice 

“We are pleased to help you try to make your world A Shade Greener!”

 

[BankFodder]

In respect of the message which you have posted above, it's quite unhelpful if you post un-dated emails without any kind of explanation to give them context.

Also it will be helpful if you could post in a smaller font

For instance, I gather that this is a response to some message you have sent them – but you haven't told us that and I have simply had to guess that from the contents of the message above. What did you write to them?

[shooter67]

Sorry....

This is the email reply that I sent them on 18/12/20

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

with regards to your recent message ( below) :-

 

'Due to difficulties placed on us through COVID the service appointment due on 24/02/2021 will now take place between 8am and 5pm. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Thank you, ASG Boilers.'

 

This appointment has been booked for 4 months in advance of the date you are coming out to service my boiler.

As stated in my recent telephone conversation
with yourselves I cannot be at my property all day, I had booked half a days holiday from work for this appointment, I have no more holidays left. Half a day seems a very reasonable time slot & I dont see how Covid 19 has changed anything in any way to hinder the service of my boiler within the half day time slot.

Unfortunately I live on my own, & due to Covid I can not have anyone at my property to be there to let you in, other than myself.

Please could you either confirm that you can or cannot make the half day slot agreed for 24 th February 2021, if you can't then you need to let me know & make another half day appointment for a future date.

I have always been pleased with the service I receive from ASG until now, I am making reasonable time for you to service my boiler, but a full day is unreasonable.I am happy with any afternoon of the week or a Saturday for you to carry out the service.

 

If you cannot give me a half day slot for the service of my boiler in the foreseeable future, then I will regard this as not fulfilling your obligation to annualy service my boiler, in this case I will regard my contract with you as void & you will need to come & remove the boiler, please note if this is the case there will be absolutely no payment forthcoming  from myself for the removal of the boiler, as I have made very fair arrangements for you to visit my property to carry out the boiler service, it is yourselves that are being difficult.

 

Kind regards,

*****

 

 

 

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[BankFodder]

Thank you.

So what was the day of their email to you which begins

Quote

Thank you for your prompt response to my email.

Unfortunately, we cannot extend the warranty any further and therefore we cannot offer an appointment for the month of April.

You haven't told us

 

 

Also I notice that you haven't given us the date of the first email which they apparently sent you in which you posted at the top of this thread.

It would really help if you make a practice of telling us the dates of these messages.

[shooter67]

They sent both emails on 16th December 2020, I replied on 18th December 2020 ( sorry thought I had copied them )

Should I now notify ASG that they have already made my warranty null & void by not servicing my boiler before 18th January?, & see what thier response is?

[BankFodder]

No I don't think you should notify them that at all. Also am afraid that I think that the final paragraph or two in your email of 18 December was rather jumping the gun because you made a serious threat and you really had no idea whether you could and how you might follow the threat up.

I think it was an unnecessarily conflict-oriented approach. I don't think that your position was at all unreasonable but for you to express it in this way was precipitative.

I think your position is that you have to start preparing to have your own service carried out.

I think that you should obtain to independent quotations for a full service – at least as good as the service that they carried out.

Then we will help you write a letter to them telling them that you do not accept their position and that you are proposing to have your own service carried out and that you do not expect this to invalidate any warranty but that you will be coming to them for reimbursement of the cost of the service unless they are prepared to agree a mutually convenient date for their own service.

In the same letter you will make it clear to them that if they cause any trouble about this that you within issue a claim in the County Court for the reimbursement of your money and also you will invite the court to exercise its power under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to examine the terms and conditions and to give the court's opinion as to the fairness and enforceability of the terms.

We will then explain to ASG that we rather look forward to this because it's about time somebody took this kind of action.

Let me know if this approach appeals to you.

However, you must get to independent quotations as quickly as possible. They have to be in writing and in a professional looking format

[BankFodder]

Also, do you happen to know the name of the firm which normally carries out their services?

[shooter67]

Yes the company is Viesman, 

I'm not allowed to have anyone else service the boiler as ASG have stated to me it is their property  & i am renting a service from them, if anyone else was to repair, service or tamper with the boiler this will null & void my warranty , I pay them £44 a month.

[BankFodder]

Once again, I don't understand why you seem to be so much in Reverence of the ASG terms and conditions.

If they won't carry out the service then it is clear that you are at liberty to have the service carried out by someone else – the most important thing is that the system is maintained in good condition.

Of course you would give notice to ASG – and in fact you would ask them who was their preferred provider. If they then responded with a particular name then you would get them to do the service. If they refused to cooperate then I think you would consider yourself free to have the service done by any other competent, properly certified/qualified company.

It's all about letting ASG know what you're doing, making sure they are fully informed, making sure that they have a reasonable time to object and that if they make objections that their objections are reasonable.

It's for them to act recently towards you. It's for you to act reasonably towards them. It is a reciprocal duty of reasonable treatment.

It is clear to me that it is also an implied term of the contract that they will cooperate in having the system serviced and that if they will not do so, that they cannot object to you taking your own action to keep the system properly functioning.

I'm not aware of the way that the ASG service works. You say that it apparently belongs to them. Does this mean that you are taking on hire purchase?

When you say that you are paying "them" £44 per month. Who is "them"?

[BankFodder]

It suddenly occurs to me that something you posted earlier on makes me feel that you'd rather like to get rid of the ASG boiler. Is this correct?

 

[shooter67]

Them is ASG, as I said I rent my boiler ...£44  month. After 10 years it belongs to me.

Yes ASG are responsible for the service, & fixing within 24 hours if it goes wrong. 

I have no option to use any other company for a service, they wont allow it.

 

All I'm asking is have they broken terms & conditions by not servicing by 18th Jan , & also with regards to not arranging an alternative date, & if so what steps can I take .

 

It's not that I want to get rid of the boiler, it's the way I'm treated as a customer, everything is on ASG terms, for example if I don't have my boiler serviced on 24th Feb then I will no longer have a warranty on the boiler & they will invoice me for any outstanding amounts due around £2400, to be paid within 30 days, it would then belong to me & i can get whoever I want to service it, unfortunately I don't have that sort of money spare. So not an option.

[BankFodder]

Well as I pointed out to you more than once now, you may feel that the terms and conditions are bias towards them – but that's only if you look at the strict wording. As soon as you look at the wording of their contract in the light of the unfair terms provisions of the consumer rights act, and as soon as you realise that also there is always room to imply contractual terms – especially where reasonableness is a natural requirement, that the contract doesn't work in their favour all the time.

I suggested a course of action above – and it's up to you whether you want to go ahead. On the basis of what you have told us, there is absolutely no way in which they can bring this contract to an end in the way that you have said. On the other hand, if you wanted to get out of the contract then if you offered them the opportunity to service the contract at a mutually agreed convenient date and time – and they refused, then this could be a basis for saying that they have terminated the contract.

If you are generally satisfied with the way ASG conducts themselves then probably you are better off sticking with them. However, you shouldn't allow us to be bullied by these people – and that's what they are doing.

We can help you withstand the bullying that you are going to have to show a little bit of resilience yourself.
By all accounts – and I don't know if you have visited the ASG Facebook group, but these people are by and large out-of-control. They dominate their customers in a particularly unpleasant way – but when on occasion somebody has decided, for instance, to hold them before the ombudsman, the ombudsman has found against ASG.

ASG need a slap and we can help you give them that slap if you want. As far as I can see, the only alternative is to lay down and take the treatment. This is not my style.

[BankFodder]

By the way, is this loan secured on your property?

[shooter67]

No I don't like the way they bully thier customers, will wait until service has been done, before I take any action.

What loan?, as I've said previously I rent from ASG.

[BankFodder]

I thought that you had bought the boiler using a hire purchase loan.

Also, you say that you are going to wait until the service has been done. Does this mean that you are now going to accept the date that they have set?

 

[AndyOrch]

ASG provide their own leasing finance and yes its usually secured against the customers property

[shooter67]

I have no choice at the moment, I can't afford to pay £2400, if my boiler doesn't have a service warranty, then I will find it difficult to get another company to service it. It will also go as a bad debt.

 

At least if I get it serviced I am covered for another year, which gives me a year to take action, question their terms & conditions & find out more about what options I have..

 

.I can't do that at the moment, I have a week before the service, which is to shorter time span for me to do anything.

[BankFodder]

Well I tried to make it clear that you wouldn't have to pay the £2400. On the other hand, for peace of mind then you might be referred to give into them and have the boiler serviced when they say so.

However, you won't be able to bring any action against them any time – unless there is a dispute over something. I'm afraid that if there is no dispute then you have no cause of action.

You say you want to find out more about the options that you have. All the options have been spelled-out here. There's nothing else.

I understand very well your concern – but I'm sorry to see somebody else caving into these bullies.
So long as this happens, nothing will ever improve.

 

[shooter67]

It's not that simple to me, I don't understand the legal system.

Could they put it in the hands of a debt collector, put an order against my property etc, ..you say I won't have to pay the £2400...how are you so sure, you say they have probably broken thier own T & Cs by not servicing my boiler by 18th January, but probably is no good, I need to be certain.

[AndyOrch]

Topic moved to The building trade and installers forum.....here you will find all the other unsatisfied customers of ASG threads.