Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[dw190]

I hope I am not missing something here. On the PCN itself under where it says Contravention code 01, the third paragraph states "Please see overleaf for details of how to pay ........" and on the back are full details and addresses of how to pay.

 

This is all above the Payment slip.

 

The above wording in bold is on the payment slip. It should be in the body of the PCN above where it says Detach Here.

[diction]

The above wording in bold is on the payment slip. It should be in the body of the PCN above where it says Detach Here.

It is in the body where it says 'Detach here'.. ??

 

'Detach here' is where the payment slip begins. That is below 'DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT' which is the last thing printed in the PCN proper in the body of the PCN.

 

I suspect the crease in the PCN body may make it appear to be a separate part. But it isn't. There is actually a serrated strip to tear along between 'DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT' and 'Detach here'.

[dw190]

It is in the body where it says 'Detach here'.. ??

 

'Detach here' is where the payment slip begins. That is below 'DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT' which is the last thing printed in the PCN proper in the body of the PCN.

 

I suspect the crease in the PCN body may make it appear to be a separate part. But it isn't. There is actually a serrated strip to tear along between 'DO NOT PAY THE PARKING ATTENDANT' and 'Detach here'.

 

Below the serrated strip is NOT part of the PCN.

 

If you detach the bottom part you are left with the PCN. Nowhere on the front of that part (The PCN) does it tell you where or how to pay, or even direct you to the reverse/overleaf.

 

It has been well established that the "Payment Slip" does not form part of a Penalty Charge Notice

[diction]

Am I being thick or does this help clarify things?

 

[dw190]

Am I being thick or does this help clarify things?

 

 

No its me. I can now see it.

[dw190]

Its me thats being thick. I coudn't see it in the pics above. Now it enlarged it is there.

 

My Appologies.

[Snunn1]

Hello all,

 

I've read through all of the posts in this thread and it all makes very interesting reading. Today, I was issued with an "Overstay" Charge from Cheltenham Borough Council for overstaying the time on my ticket. The OCN (?) only has one date and time labelled as "Date" and "Time" so it immediately becomes unenforceable as there is no contravention or issue/notice date.

 

The question I have is on the Acts that are being used - Off-Street Parking Places (Pay and Display) 1996 and the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Now, I know the RTA 1984 is used if the council do not have the DPE powers, but has the Pay and Display Act 1996 got anything nasty in it which may make the ticket enforceable? I can't find any references to it, the best I can find is 2005.

 

For those not in the know about the DPE powers and councils like Cheltenham, you may wish to look at this thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/27493-anybody-pick-holes.html

 

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks

Stew

[kopite71]

Hello Shunn

 

1st point. Is it your car, i mean registered to you, as the copy you have scanned says:

 

'To the driver'

 

And if and if not. I wouldn't worry.

 

Because they will pay £2.50 to DVLA to get the keeper details, and try to get the fine off them.

 

But it says 'To the driver', and you are under no obligation to inform them who was driving.

 

So politely tell them to 'fcuk off' with their p*ss ant point threats.

[patdavies]

Hello Shunn

 

1st point. Is it your car, i mean registered to you, as the copy you have scanned says:

 

'To the driver'

 

And if and if not. I wouldn't worry.

 

Because they will pay £2.50 to DVLA to get the keeper details, and try to get the fine off them.

 

But it says 'To the driver', and you are under no obligation to inform them who was driving.

 

So politely tell them to 'fcuk off' with their p*ss ant point threats.

 

This is an ECN under the 1984 Act. It is not a PCN.

 

They will not be paying £2.50 to DVLA, the information will be taken from the PNC - the Police system.

 

The RK is obliged to provide the driver details under S.112 of the 1984 Act, which is virtually identical to S.172 that is used for speeding, etc.

[patdavies]

 

Today, I was issued with an "Overstay" Charge from Cheltenham Borough Council for overstaying the time on my ticket. The OCN (?) only has one date and time labelled as "Date" and "Time" so it immediately becomes unenforceable as there is no contravention or issue/notice date.

 

 

Sorry, but the requirement for two dates only exists for a PCN issued under the 1991 Act.

 

Your ECN is not voided by only having one date.

 

The way that an ECN works is as follows:

 

• The Council set a parking charge for the location (in your case £60).
  
• They then allow a massive discount for parking within the rules (the cost of your pay & display ticket)
  
• If you park outside the rules, then the discount is revoked and the full price becomes payable.

[rogerebaker]

Ive been to the adjudicators this afternoon and won my case due to a defective NOR

 

The NOR failed to mention that cost may be awarded by the adjudicator and this is a requirement of Schedule 6 of the RTA 1991

 

This was one of about 10 points I was appealing on but he stated he didnt need to adjudicate on them as the NOR was defective

 

I asked for 200.00 costs which he said he will consider and get back to me within 21 days

 

Keep at it folks its 5-0 to me at the moment against a completely incompetant council and their sneaky wardens

[kopite71]

 

Keep at it folks its 5-0 to me at the moment against a completely incompetant council and their sneaky wardens

 

Which Council was it by the way?

[rogerebaker]

Elmbridge surrey

[Snunn1]

Sorry, but the requirement for two dates only exists for a PCN issued under the 1991 Act.

 

Your ECN is not voided by only having one date.

 

The way that an ECN works is as follows:

• The Council set a parking charge for the location (in your case £60).
  
• They then allow a massive discount for parking within the rules (the cost of your pay & display ticket)
  
• If you park outside the rules, then the discount is revoked and the full price becomes payable.

 

This seems to contradict what has been mentioned in the thread I linked to in my previous post - according to the Dept of Transport, a ECN and PCN are essentially the same thing. I'm about to ask the Dept about this for clarification and will let you know the result.

 

Thanks

Stew

[dax]

Has anyone had a ticket refunded in the last six months from Barnet or Haringey council ?

[diction]

Hi again chaps. Sorry for the absence. Puter went down on Sunday afternoon and I've just got it back (duff memory - what a bugger to find).

 

I have posted off my second letter to the council rejecting their rejection of my first appeal letter. I fully expect them not to read it and churn out yet another rejection notice.

 

When I get it, I shall let you know and ask for your assistance once again.

 

dw190 - no problem. My fault for skimping on the resolution.

[veilside01702]

Hi guys and girls,

just a quick few questions to see if anyone can help me??

I got a PCN on a public road for '01 Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours'. I was actually parked on worn out old double yellows about 4 feet from the clearly marked new ones painted on the road!

On the new double yellows there was a sign for no loading between 8.30 - 9am and 4.30 - 6pm. I was issued a ticket at 13.55 - 13.58, out of the restrictions. The council have rejected my complaint that I was not parked illegally. Also the photo's they sent have No time and date stamp on them, showing my car on the old yellow lines??

I wrote lastnight asking for clarification of which offence I had been reported for....parking legally or loading whilst the restrictions don't apply?

lol....Any other Idea's.....as for a change I was actually innocent and am angry that they want me to pay for doing nothing wrong.....

Russ

[Guest xipetotec46]

Need pics of the PCN both sides and some pics of the lines go to ImageShack® - Hosting to host the pics choose No1 for forums copy & paste URL into your next post, this is to help us all decide what is non compliant etc.etc.

In the meantime ask your local council for a copy of the Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) for the location you got the PCN for and don't be fobbed off with the "You can view a copy here at the parking office" yarn, tell them you need a hard copy rapido.

[patdavies]

Hi guys and girls,

just a quick few questions to see if anyone can help me??

I got a PCN on a public road for '01 Parking in a restricted street during prescribed hours'. I was actually parked on worn out old double yellows about 4 feet from the clearly marked new ones painted on the road!

On the new double yellows there was a sign for no loading between 8.30 - 9am and 4.30 - 6pm. I was issued a ticket at 13.55 - 13.58, out of the restrictions. The council have rejected my complaint that I was not parked illegally. Also the photo's they sent have No time and date stamp on them, showing my car on the old yellow lines??

I wrote lastnight asking for clarification of which offence I had been reported for....parking legally or loading whilst the restrictions don't apply?

lol....Any other Idea's.....as for a change I was actually innocent and am angry that they want me to pay for doing nothing wrong.....

Russ

 

Code 01 means they have tried to do you for parking on the double yellows. If it was loading/unloading it would be 02.

[veilside01702]

cheers pat....

xipetotec46...I will scan as soon as I can get the damn scanner working again....lol

The council went out and took some pics of the location....

They seem to show my car was not on the new yellow lines but the old ones...

plus the ones the traffic wardens took have no date or time stamp....

Am I right in saying these cannot be used as evidence without this??

they show car on a bit of old yellow lines with ticket attached, but are deceiving the angle they were taken...

I feel like I am taking everyone on for everything wrong in my life....lol

I am just trying to force the council to look into this properly...

If I did park on the yellow lines I would just pay, but don't feel I should as I was parked legally.....

cheers....

Russ

[diction]

Hi again chaps

 

An update for you on my case. Remember, parking on double yellow lines, early on a Sunday morning, with a timeplate saying Mon-Sat 8am-6.30pm. The council have 'investigated' and the pcn is going to be cancelled. No further action will be taken.

 

Now this is great. But I could have guessed this would happen. They did not want this going to adjudication. They are obviously raking in thousands with incorrectly signed double yellow lines (they are everywhere in this borough). The sign gives the authority to park, the lines are only a guide. That is my contention. That is the contention of the highway code. That is what motorists are taught from the moment they get into a car.

 

The council have not allowed this to go to adjudication. So how can I make sure everyone knows that they should fight the case of parking on double yellow lines, when a timeplate gives Mon-Sat 8am-6.30pm restriction, implying no restriction outside those hours?

 

Any suggestions gratefully received.

[Fletch]

Re Lidl Car Park Croydon

 

 

So far Lidl have offered me £50 voucher to placate me. I intend to reject the offer.

[patdavies]

Hi again chaps

 

An update for you on my case. Remember, parking on double yellow lines, early on a Sunday morning, with a timeplate saying Mon-Sat 8am-6.30pm. The council have 'investigated' and the pcn is going to be cancelled. No further action will be taken.

 

Now this is great. But I could have guessed this would happen. They did not want this going to adjudication. They are obviously raking in thousands with incorrectly signed double yellow lines (they are everywhere in this borough). The sign gives the authority to park, the lines are only a guide. That is my contention. That is the contention of the highway code. That is what motorists are taught from the moment they get into a car.

 

The council have not allowed this to go to adjudication. So how can I make sure everyone knows that they should fight the case of parking on double yellow lines, when a timeplate gives Mon-Sat 8am-6.30pm restriction, implying no restriction outside those hours?

 

Any suggestions gratefully received.

 

Local press usually like stories that make the Council look stupid.

[Guest xipetotec46]

Local press usually like stories that make the Council look stupid.

 

Council should have to repay motorists for that area if they have paid a PCN charge so get the local rag involved

[adamwilk01]

Hi, i'm new to this forum. Stumbled across it after receiving a parking ticket today. Was looking in Grahams in Leeds for a fixture for my bathroom and when I returned to my car (which was parked in their car park) I had received a parking ticket for a £75 issued by UKCPS (not Leeds City Council). There were signs everywhere about a contractual agreement with the carpark owner and a warning about illegal parking. The ticket reads that the car was first observed at 12:50 and then issued a ticket at 12.58, surely 8 mins is not a reasonable amount of time to expect a customer to browse around a shop and return to the car! I did not end up buying anything so will this hinder any appeal?

 

Does anyone have any tips as to what I should put in the appeal letter?