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Pra Group Claimform - lloyds overdraft 'debt'


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name of the claimant ? pra group (uk) limited

date of issue – 05 sept 2016

AOS done 7th sept

 

.filing the defence? by 4pm Friday 7th October

 

what is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

 

1. the claimant claims the sum of £1900 for debt and interest.

2.on 0i/12/89 the defendant entered into an agreement with lloyds for an overdraft under reference (here is bank sortcode and account number).

3.on 03/11/09 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £1500.

4.on 24/06/13 the debt of £1500 assigned to aktiv kapital portfolio as, oslo zug branch who itself assigned the debt to pra group (uk) ltd

5.on 31/12/14. notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925. payments of £10 received up to 17/07/13

and the claimant claims

1. the sum of £1500

2. statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from 17/07/13 to 02/09/16 £376.33 and thereafter at a daily rate of 0.33 until judgement or sooner payment.

 

what is the value of the claim? £2,070.00

 

is the claim for a current account (overdraft) or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? current account (overdraft)

when did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? before

has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the debt purchaser who has issued the claim. PRA GROUP

 

were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a notice of assignment? no

 

did you receive a default notice from the original creditor? dont know was in psychiatric hospital

 

have you been receiving statutory notices headed “notice of default sums” – at least once a year ? no

why did you cease payments? originally in 2009 i lost my job due to mental illness and could not repay my overdraft.

a repayment plan was subsequently agreed with lloyds of £5 a month as i was unable to work (still ill)

 

what was the date of your last payment? july 2013.i maintained the repayments to that date

after that i continued to try to make the repayments by standing order but the payments were returned.

 

was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? no

 

did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor

and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan?

yes. details provided and monthly repayments agreed and always made until they started being returned to account.

 

if you have not already done so – send a cca request to the claimant for a copy of your agreement

(except for overdraft/ mobile/telephone accounts) i have not done this as claim relates to overdraft. is this right?

 

Send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitor named on the claim form for copies of documents mentioned/implied within the claim form. There are two different versions - one for Loans/Credit cards the other for Current accounts

 

Request 1 - Loans/Credit Cards

 

Request 2 - Current accounts

 

i have read this and adapted it as best i can and will post it registered delivery tomorrow.

 

i am new to this site.

i have received a claim form from pra group for an overdraft with lloyds that i had when i had a breakdown in 2009 and was taken into hospital and lost my job.

 

was making payments to lloyds of £5 per month from dec 2009 to july 2013

after that the standing orders were returned to me by lloyds.

i also had a loan with lloyds and that was transferred to different debt purchaser and i continued to make repayments on that to date. so no i didnt know the overdraft debt had been transferred. i did not receive notice.

 

i have read the guidelines on posting and i hope i am complying with them.

any help at all on dealing with this claim would be very much appreciated.

 

i have read that there are posts on the legal success forum that will help draft a defence.

 

i .looking through this now.

have i done the right things so far please.

sorry about the caps.

its.just that red font isnt coming up.

i am trying to make my answers stand out for ease of reading

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welcome aboard

don't worry about your post I've sorted it.

 

 

you seem to be on the ball

you've done AOS and got the CPR ready to run.

 

 

don't worry about your defence yet..

its not due till 4pm Friday 7th October

 

 

but don't miss it!

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you ever so much. My message looks so much clearer now and much less 'shouty'!

 

I have posted the CPR letter recorded delivery today.

 

I will note the defence date now.

 

Really appreciate this forum and your response. Thankyou :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello again and thank you for your help previously.

 

I have galvanised myself and have been trying to draft a defence ready to file online this week.

 

Could you please help with a query. I submitted a request for documentation from the Claimant using the template on this forum.

 

I got back at letter saying they were contacting the original lender to obtain copies of the overdraft Agreement etc as referred to in the claim s these docs were not in their possession.

 

However they did include photocopies of the following:-

 

Letter from Lloyds dated July 2013 re assigning to Aktiv Capital Portfolio;

Letter from Aktiv dated July 2013 regarding assignment from Lloyds;

Letter from PRA dated January 2015 regarding assignment from Aktiv to PRA (ie the claimant).

 

My problem is that I have never seen these letters as they were sent to an address I moved out of in 2010. I had a Royal Mail Redirection arranged when I moved but the letters were sent after that expired.

 

From reading Section 196 of the LPA my understanding is that the Notice is 'deemed' served if it is sent by REGISTERED post to the last known address (or left there) and NOT RETURNED TO SENDER. Is this correct?

 

Because I had no knowledge of these Notices that were apparently sent to my old address. My old landlady there was a very formidable woman and I have been in touch with her to find out what happened to any post that arrived for me after the redirection ended and she says she did in fact mark the post 'no longer at this address) and give it back to the postman. The postman would collect post from her every day as she was elderly and didn't go to the post box as she lived in a rural location. She also says she would never have accepted or signed for a registered letter for me when I no longer lived there.

 

Does this affect the validity of the notices that PRA have now disclosed to me? If so how much detail should I put in the defence? Would it suffice to say that I deny the notices were validly served on me as I believed they were returned to sender unopened by my landlady?

 

I moved out of the address in question (the last address the bank had for me) in 2010, I lived somewhere else for a year and have been in my present address for over 5 years. The the notices were sent to my oldest address in 2013 and 2015. I was on the electoral roll in the subsequent addresses.

 

Finally does anot assignor/assignee have a duty to make a reasonable search for the correct address of someone? It feels pretty unfair that these Notices that I had no idea about are valid especially as the claimant was able to ascertain my address correctly for the claim form, but not for the Notice 18 months ago, even tho i have lived here at this address over 5 years.

 

Sorry for such a long post. Feel really unwell over this and jusr want to get this defence sent and stop it hanging over me.

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So in effect you failed to notify Lloyds of your change of address..who in turn could not provide the assignee of your current address.

 

I personally wouldn't be too concerned as Notice of Assignment will play only a minor part of your defence...

 

At least the claim form found the correct address...thats more important.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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all irrelevant sadly

 

stop wasting time on wriggles -things like that

 

all you need is the holding/no paperwork defence

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?467751-PRA-group-claim-form-old-Lloyd-s-loan-debt

 

 

might help...:madgrin:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

So in effect you failed to notify Lloyds of your change of address..who in turn could not provide the assignee of your current address.

 

I personally wouldn't be too concerned as Notice of Assignment will play only a minor part of your defence...

 

At least the claim form found the correct address...thats more important.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi and thanks for your response.

 

So would you suggest that I include this point of what I think is a defect in service of a Notice of Assignment or not?

 

It seems relevant to me to the defence in as much i hace to accept or dispute that the notices referred to were served on me or not.

I had two accounts with Lloyds based at the same branch and I did communicate my change of address to Lloyds as well as arrange a redirection and tick the box for Royal Mail to contax5 all utility providers etc with change of address. The 2 accounts with lloyds were current account (the subject of this claim) and a personal loan. The personal loan was assigned to a different company and I did get notice of this in 2913 at my present address and have an ongoing repayment in place with that company that I pay every month and have never missed.

 

This is why I am raising this point, I did not know about the assignment of the subject of this claim even though clearly Lloyds had my correct address in 2013 at the time the PRA Notice was sent to the wrong address and returned to sender unopened.

 

Should I include this in defence?

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You simply put them to strict proof to disclose......the overdraft defence is already prepared..simply edit to suit your particulars.

 

See here....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?469487-Hoist-Cohen-claimform-HSBC-OD-debt/page2

We could do with some help from you.

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So this is the draft defence to the PRA claim, following the above link. Is this ok to submit?�� I have not included references to 'Paragraph 1 is denied, or paragraph 2 is denied' etc. This is because there are no paragraphs in the Particulars I received. It is just one (unnumbered) paragraph.

 

Here goes..... any feedback or amen ends would be much appreciated.

 

1. The claimant claims the sum of £1900 for debt and interest. On 01/12/89 the defendant entered into an agreement with lloyds for an overdraft under reference (here is bank sortcode and account number).

2.On 03/11/09 the defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £1500.

3.On 24/06/13 the debt of £1500 assigned to aktiv kapital portfolio as, oslo zug branch who itself assigned the debt to pra group (uk) ltd .On 31/12/14. notices of assignment were sent to the defendant in accordance with s136 law of property act 1925. payments of £10 received up to 17/07/13

 

and the claimant claims

1. the sum of £1500

2. statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from 17/07/13 to 02/09/16 £376.33 and thereafter at a daily rate of 0.33 until judgement or sooner payment.

 

 

#####Defence#####

 

The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted that the Defendant once had banking facilities with the original creditor Lloyds Bank. It is denied that the Defendant is indebted for the alleged balance claimed.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is denied. Lloyds has ever served Notice pursuant to 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 and therefore the Assignee is prevented from seeking any relief for any alleged outstanding balance pursuant to the CCA1974.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant has ever been aware of or received any Notice of Assignment pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925 from either LLoyds or the assignee. It is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

The Claimant is also put to strict proof to:-.

 

(a) Provide a copy agreement/overdraft facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception that this claim is based on.

(b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment.

© Provide a breakdown of all excessive charging/fees and show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed.

(d) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

(e) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct.

 

5. On receipt of this claim the Defendant requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 12 September 2016 namely the Overdraft Agreement, Terms and Conditions relevant at the time of inception for the agreed overdraft and Termination Demand Notice inferred by the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.

 

The Claimant has failed to respond or comply with this request.

 

By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Edited by Andyorch
Edited
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Particulars added for reference and numbered.Particulars are never numbered...we break them down so its easy to defend against and refute/admit/accept each point by reference.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Check the defence now in post #10( Edited)...and if your happy your good to go.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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