Sarah & Ian v Lloyds **WON IN COURT + COSTS!**

[sarah73076]

I opened an account with Lloyds four years ago when I moved here from the U.S. My husband (a UK citizen) had been with Lloyds since he was 15 years old, and it was easier to get an account with his bank. We also opened up a joint account. Since then, I found that between my personal account and the joint account, we've had over £400 in charges. Added to that, charges on my husband's personal account since July 2002 made the total £875.

 

I thought about claiming right away, but hubby says he went overdrawn and got charged quite a few times before we got married, so we've written the SAR to Lloyds for the period November 2001 to July 2002 to get the rest of the charges we can claim for within the 6 year statutory period.

 

Today I phoned LLoyds and got the joint and personal account switched to Classic Plus (free) instead of Gold Service Plus. I was paying £20 a month for stupid crap I never used--don't know why I let it go on so long! I was annoyed--the woman tried to sell me home insurance--um, that's not why I called you!

 

The overdraft on Ian's account and the joint account are only £100 each, so easy enough to pay off if they get nasty. Mine is not so easy--I have a £1750 overdraft. I have opened an account at Alliance & Leicester and gotten a £450 overdraft, and according to the paperwork I don't qualify for the overdraft matching because I had unauthorised overdraft use in the past three months and because I haven't had a credit balance for at least two days out of the month. However, I wrote to them to explain those charges were in dispute and that I normally stick all my money in the joint account to pay bills. I asked them to reconsider matching my overdraft, saying that we'd move other accounts to Alliance & Leicester. We'll see how that turns out, hopefully they're greedy enough for our business to do it.

 

When people put dates on here, is it the date you posted the letter, or do you put the date it was received (if done recorded delivery I suppose you'd have that)?

 

Anyway, I posted the SAR for Ian on 06/11/06, using the template from this site. Hope we'll get those statements back soon so we can claim before Christmas.

[sarah73076]

Finally received statements for Ian's account today that were not available on online banking, and it added another nearly £200 to our total, making it a grand total of £1047.50 we are claiming between us.

 

I can't believe they get away with sending statements like this. I know they're old and on microfiche or something, but you'd have thought they purposely smudged everything so we'd miss out a few charges! The oldest statements were so thick with toner/ink and smudged that I could barely read them! Fortunately, the shape of the words 'Unauth'd Borr. Fee' tends to jump out at you when you've been scanning statements for a while.

 

The letter was dated 30/11/06, but arrived today (yesterday) 5th December. I sent off the request on the 6th of November, so they've got it in under the 40 day mark.

 

There are some of Ian's charges that are beyond the 6 year statutory period, but I'm putting them on the schedule anyway and hoping for the best. The earliest one is 26/09/2000, so just a few months beyond.

 

I am writing Alliance & Leicester again today to dispute them not matching my overdraft, and sending this month's statement where it shows I was in credit two days out of the month and that I have no unauthorised overdraft charges. We'll see what they say. I told them I wouldn't switch my direct debits or paycheck over there unless they say yes, as the whole reason for this is wanting to close my Lloyd's account.

[kazzaw]

Good luck!! If you get stuck with anything don't be afraid to ask.

 

Also whilst you're waiting for a reply from LTSB it's a good idea to spend some time reading up on the procedures & what experience other people have had.

 

K

[sarah13]

hello Sarah and Ian

Welcome. Dont forget to look at claiming interest, as with my claim the charges go back a long time so the interest could be as much as the claim amount.

 

Keep focused, dont let them deter you. Wishing you the best of luck.

 

Sarah

[sarah73076]

Good news! Alliance & Leicester have now matched my overdraft with Lloyds, so no worries if I do end up having to close my Lloyds account.

 

So where's my claim at.....I did the 1st letter on 6/12/06, and yesterday (22/12/06) got a letter dated 15/12/06 (damn xmas post) which seemed like a standard response. Basically it explained that they don't agree with the OFT and tries to nicely say 'f*ck off, we're not giving you your money'. So I've now done the second letter saying that their response was unsatisfactory and we want it back in 14 days or we'll take it to small claims court. Will post it today (23/12) and then plan to start the claim on 7/1/07. Will read up on it over the break and get prepared!

[sarah13]

enjoy your christmas and get back to it afterwards. Have fun!

[RedDeath]

Good luck to the both of you!!!

[sarah73076]

Lloyd's did not respond to my second letter, so on 8 January just after midnight I used the Money Claim Online service to start a claim. I used the spreadsheets in the library to calculate the statutory interest and came up with a figure of £156.66 owed, plus £120 in court fees, bringing the total claim to just over £1300. I used the templates for MCOL from this site and amended slightly to do a joint claim with husband (just pluralised claimant). I really hope that was the right thing to do. It didn't make sense to claim separately, and neither one of us individuals could have done all three accounts. Here's the wording I used in the claim:

 

1. The Claimants have accounts xxxxxxxx (opened approximately 1993), xxxxxxxx (opened 10 December 20002), and xxxxxxxxxx (opened 10 December 2002) with the Defendant. 2. Since 09/12/2002 the Defendant debited charges in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3. Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4. Claimants contend: (a) The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b) The Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5. Claimants claim: (a) return of the amounts debited of £1047.50; (b) Interest per S.69 County Courts Act 1984 of 8% - £156.66 continuing at 8% until judgment or settlement at a daily rate of £0.23. 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. 7. Costs allowed by the Court.

 

 

We received a Notice of Issue within a few days which said we can consider the claim served as of 13th January, so Lloyds has until 27th January to respond. I haven't yet sent them a 3rd copy of the schedule of charges. Is it necessary since I've sent them two copies already? Wondering as I did state in claim another copy would be sent--but just following the wording from template, and not sure it's necessary. I hope they just ignore me so I can file a judgement.

[BARTY]

Hi

Have you sent a copy of your schedule to MCOL as well, if not, you should do the following:

 

Send 2 copies of your schedule of charges, clearly marked with your claim no. + a brief covering letter asking for them to be filed with your claim to:

The Court Manager,

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St. Katharine's Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

Dear Sir/Madam

(Your Name) –v- (Bank)

Claim No: ********

Date Issued: xx/xx/xx

Please find enclosed a schedule of penalty charges taken from me by the defendant, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached to the particulars of my claim.

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

And when Lloyds acknowledge your claim, send a copy again to their solicitors.

 

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Barty:)

[sarah73076]

Thanks for the advice Barty, I will do what you've suggested.

 

I've now received two things on 17 Jan:

 

1. A letter from Lloyds TSB dated 11 Jan 2007, says nearly exactly the same standard blah blah blah things as the other one, but this one has an offer of £750 in it as a 'goodwill gesture'. It's not been put into the account.

 

2. A Notice that Acknowledgment of Service has been filed from Northampton County Court on 15 Jan 2007. It says the defendant has 28 days from the date of service (which I understand to be 13 Jan). So I guess that means I can start my judgment on 9th March assuming they don't defend the claim.

 

My question now is, do I have to acknowledge the letter from Lloyds at all if I'm not going to accept the offer?

[sarah73076]

One more question, when I send the schedules to Lloyd's Solicitors and to MCOL, should I update the amount of statutory interest to today, or leave it as the same amount I claimed on 08/01/07 when I filed? It won't be tons of money (only 23 pence per day) but I just want to do it right!

[sarah73076]

The £750 has now arrived into our account. If I'm right I think I also have to tell the court about this. I've got no idea what to do about the statutory interest. I suppose I could apply the payment and then work out a new daily rate of interest from today?

[sarah73076]

Help please, messed up the MCOL! I've started a new thread to deal with the matter, would appreciate your thoughts on it!

[sarah73076]

Sorry haven't updated in a while. As stated above, I did mess up my MCOL. I didn't claim enough statutory interest, shorted myself about £90! You can read on the other thread all my hemming and hawing about what to do with it.

 

While I was waffling, the Defence from Lloyds solicitors [problem] arrived, via the Northampton County Court. It was bog standard, I've posted it in full (complete with typos) for all to see. They also sent a notice that the proceedings were being transferred to the Woolwich County Court (where I live) and sent me an Allocation Questionnaire.

 

So, I finally pulled my finger out and got to work.

I used the New Strategy for Allocation Questionnaires when filling out my N149 form, writing 'Please see attached' in section G and then copying the statement helpfully prepared by others on this forum, and also attaching the draft order for directions.

 

Next I pulled out my notes from when I spoke to the MCOL helpline people about amending my claim. I printed off the claim I previously made, crossed out the errors and wrote in the corrected info in red biro as instructed. Then I filled out an N244 Application and attached the schedules as they should have been on 08/01/2007 when I filed the claim.

 

Finally, I wrote a letter to the Woolwich County Court. I explained that I was sending an application to amend the particulars and amount of the claim, and that I was enclosing the allocation questionnaire as well. I also stated that I had received £750 as a goodwill gesture from the defendant, but that this was only accepted as a partial payment and would be applied at the time the full settlement was made. Will post the entirety of the letter if anyone interested.

 

I know there's been lots of discussion about when/how to apply the goodwill gestures. It entered my account on 19/01/07. I did try to go to a Lloyds branch and get them to remove it, but they were totally useless and confused and ended up having to call round loads of places as they couldn't figure out where the money had come from. In then end someone from another part of Lloyds phoned me back and also said they weren't able to take the money back and that they thought I should phone [problem]. I didn't bother, I don't expect [problem] to give me correct advice! The people at MCOL helpline thought it was fair to apply the £750 once Lloyds agreed to do a full settlement--but I may have misunderstood. MCOL helpline was the ones that said I should try to get it removed from my account, but it doesn't seem possible. Oh well, it's pretty much spent anyway!

 

My letter was copied to [problem], and since they are acting on behalf of Lloyds I'm assuming I don't have to write to LLoyds directly about the £750. [problem] now has the info that I got the payment and am only accepting it as partial. The letter didn't say anything about it being a full and final settlement, but that it was their 'final response' and I could go to the ombudsman if I didn't like it.

 

I've posted the application for amendment (with £35 cheque), the allocation questionnaire and the letter to the Woolwich County Court, and copies of all of the same to [problem]. As far as I'm concerned, that should be me done until the hearing is ordered and directions are sent out, correct?

[sarah73076]

We've received our court date for 21 June, and by 28 March I have to send in the court bundle. It looks like the judge took the suggestion I made for directions verbatim!

 

In the meantime, my husband managed to screw up the account so we have £170 more in bank charges....need to figure out what to do about those now!

[empowered]

Divorce the husband! Debs:razz:

[sarah73076]

Debs, I'm nearly there! So annoyed with him! We were doing so well, and then he managed to transfer £250 OUT of the joint account instead of IN! We got 6 direct debits returned plus went overdrawn! And would you believe, he's trying to say it was my fault because I was probably 'shouting' at him to make the transfer, and he did it on Lloyd's quick transfer thing too hastily.....GRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! I can't think about it anymore, or I will start googling 'quickie divorce'.

[skbuncks]

We've received our court date for 21 June, and by 28 March I have to send in the court bundle. It looks like the judge took the suggestion I made for directions verbatim!

 

In the meantime, my husband managed to screw up the account so we have £170 more in bank charges....need to figure out what to do about those now!

 

Hi Sarah, when lloyds settle you can ask them to take any additional charges into account. They might, just might pay them back aswell. If not just start another claim and you'll get it all back in the end.

 

skb

[sarah73076]

So today's the court date, here's a run down of what's happened since last time I posted:

 

27 March: Sent court bundles and statement of evidence to [problem] and Woolwich County Court (where case has been transferred). [problem] has 28 days from receipt to send their court bundle to me (have evidence they rec'd on 28 March).

 

11 May: Sent letter to [problem] (cc'ed to Court) saying I had not received anything from [problem] and they had 7 days to send their court bundle to me or I would ask the judge to make an order before the hearing. (I dropped the ball on this! Forgot to do it!)

 

11 June: Received letter from [problem] dated 7 June stating that they were settling the claim and would deposit money in my account within 5 business days.

 

19 June: Still had not received anything, so phoned [problem] who said they hadn't paid because I hadn't responded to letter! I pointed out that letter says NOTHING like I have to contact them, it only requests that I notify court WHEN MONEY IS RECEIVED to cancel hearing. They ask me to send copy of the letter by fax which I do. Letter with fax asks for payment by no later than Noon on 20/06/07 and for me to be contacted if this will not happen.

 

20 June: No money received. Phone [problem] who say they can't find anything, don't know where my fax is, don't know if I'll get any money paid in, making excuses about the volume of cases, etc, etc. I say it is now to late for me to notify court of settlement. They say I will have to go to court. I ask if anyone will be there representing them. They say 'I can't comment on that'.

 

21 June: Phoned the court to explain situation. They say to come to hearing and bring schedule of costs if I want to apply for them.

 

So there's where I'm at, due in court at 2pm today in Woolwich, so will have to take afternoon off work....grrrrrrrr!

[BARTY]

Good luck, hope it all goes well for you.

Barty:)

[nestie]

Hi Sarah,

just read over your thread and wondering how things went at court today.

[sarah73076]

Great news everyone! I went to court today and took along a letter and schedule of my costs in preparing the claim, which came to about £176. The judge said she wasn't expecting to see me as [problem] had sent the court a letter saying they were settling. I explained what happened (as above), and she looked at it, decided Lloyds had behaved unreasonably and awarded me the costs as well as the judgement.

 

Lloyds now have until 5th July to give me the money, or I'm able to send in the bailiffs! Hooray!!!!

[Lorraine2503]

CONGRATULATIONS!

 

Well done!

[BARTY]

Congratulations!! :D

Brilliant news, well done!!

Barty:)

[nestie]

Congratulations and great news getting the costs as well - bet SCM make you wait the 28 days for that!