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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Baliff coming tmrw...help!!!


louise35
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Last october (2005) i forgot to pay the last £53 of my council tax...i did agree to make a payment last october then completly forgot about it,i heard no more about this but did start paying 2006s council tax...about 5 weeks ago i recieved a letter from my council saying as i hadnt payed the £53 they had handed it over to the baliffs...i asked if they could withdraw this as i had just forgotten...no excuses just forgotten im sorry i will pay it now...they told me no.

About 4 weeks ago a firm called JACOBS who are certified came to my door,i said i would get it sorted but then my gran died and i went to Scotland for the funeral and to sort everything out (belongings)...last weeks he came back and left a removal of goods notice and it had gone up to £169.50...this was on the wednesday,on the friday he came back and it was £219.50...ow can this be?

This morning i went to the CAB and a woman there rang him and asked what the charges were...he said £22.50 for the 1st visit...£16.50 for the 2nd...and £90 for the 3rd...he then changed his mind and said it was £80 for a van and a further £90 for a levy???

I told the woman he was always changing his mind,she agreed and argued with him but he wouldnt budge,she told him when he comes to my house tmrw at 4pm to have a breakdown of the charges...even when you add it all up where the hell does £219.50 come from,it should be more,he wont speak to me about it and his head office said i have to talk to him...this money is more than my husbands complete weekly wage...the lady also asked him if he would take a reduced payment and he said no...i dont know what to do...i havent let him in and wont let him in but im petrified...i hate the fact he can smugly turn up and take anything he wants...im not disputing i owe money...just his charges...any advice would be welcome...louise

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If you offered to pay the council, and they refused to accept, I can't see as there is much case to answer to a bailiff.

 

I would go to the council office ASAP and pay the money over the counter - then tell the bailiff to firk off when he appears.

 

I have done this several times, works a treat - once the original debt is paid, the bailiffs never bother trying to get their 'charges' - at least in my experience.

 

The interesting thins I found out about Council Tax is that the council is not accountable for it in court - IE even though they may fail to provide you with any services, that is no reason in a court of law to excuse you from paying any part of it!!

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has the bailiff gained peaceful entry to your property?

 

if they haven't then the maximum they can charge you would be a total of £39.

 

write to the bailiff firm asking for a full breakdown.

 

more info here >>

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 02 Bailiffs And Council Tax

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No hes had NO entry nor would i allow this...hes charged me for a levy but hasnt been in to make a list and has charged me for a van...i saw no van...hes coming tmrw,i have been given a couple of ideas but how do i go about this wothout getting more of a bill...

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As soon as you pay the original council tax bill off (get a receipt from the cash office obviously) the bailiff has no debt to collect upon.

The council can argue you owe them still for "admin charges" and all that rubbish, but in my experience of this situation over the past 3 years they never bother to follow up and the letters and bailiffs soon cease. Maybe it is different for your council, but certainly works for mine.

At worst case scenario, the bailiffs debt details will be completely incorrect (as you have now paid the original amount owed) so he will have to go away and come back with a new bill for just the "admin charges" and all of his, probably false (allegedly) trips to your house with a big van etc.

Don't even answer the door - don't give him ANY chance to get his foot in - leave a note pinned to the outside for the attention of Mr Bailiff, and try and get a photo of him taking the note if you can (to prove he did) from an upstairs window, for instance. If you happen to have a video camera, or can borrow one, set this up if possible to record his whole visit - if he knows you are recording him he is less likely to misbehave!

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Is a balliff allowed to take my husbands car that is in his name...the bill is in my name?

Although the liability order may have been obtained solely against you, which means the bailiff must seize only goods which are yours, they may view the car as something which is owned jointly by you and your husband and in which, therefore, you have a vested interest. For example, if the car was purchased from a joint bank account, and/or is used by you, then it could be strongly argued that you own a share of the car and the bailiff can seize that share by seizing it all. It would be unsafe to assume it could not be seized.

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No, a bailiff cannot seize anything that he cannot prove you own. Of course, they will no doubt try the "you prove it isn't yours madam", but I don't believe that to be lawful.

 

If the vehicle is subject to a HP agreement, then they can't take it in anycase (other than for an outstanding debt of the HP agreement on the same vehicle)

 

Similarly if your TV is on HP, they can't take that.

 

Also they are not allowed to take essential items - these are things like your washing machine, bed, clothes etc.

 

Also they can't take essential items of your trade - for instance tools that are required for your job.

 

In fact there isn't really much they can legally take when it boils down to it!

 

There is a good leaflet available from your local county court which is intended for people who are trying to enforce judgements - it gives a good detail of when exactly a bailiff will be able to seize goods from a debtor - after you've read this you will be a LOT better informed and 100% less worried about a bailiff visit I can assure you!

 

I now consider a bailiff's visit 'sport' - I love quoting all the 'you can't take this because' at them and then telling them to firk off empty handed... most of them are pig-ignorant thugs and have absolutely no comprehension of the laws under which they are working. A little knowledge on your part is a HUUUUUGE weapon against them!

 

Oh, another tip I find works extremely well, constantly ask them exactly "what piece of legislation are you quoting as your right to seize goods" ... they usually reply with "we have a right" and then you again repeat and keep repeating your original question. I have yet to meet a single debt collector or bailiff who has been able to quote ANY law back to me... most of them give up when you are unrelenting in this way - not because they feel threatened, I suspect, but more because they realise you are not stupid and are not going to give in like the average Joe. At the end of the day they just move on to the next poor sod on their clipboard who isn't so clued up and is much easier to dupe out of all their possessions for some trivial little bill.

 

**the views expressed above are mine only and the word "allegedly" should probably be sprinkled all over the place, naturally** ;) ;) :D

 

Lastly, always remember they cannot forcefully take anything - you HAVE to let them gain peaceful entry. If you never let them into the house, they can never take anything.

 

Don't have nightmares... get a pointy stick ;)

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Your are liable for the original amount, cout fee and the 1st and 2nd visit charges, nothing else.

 

Let me know how you can afford (i.e one payment, three payments etc) to pay this and i will write/post a letter for you to send that will sort the matter.

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Guest Battleaxe

Oh ho, The Bailiff Watchdog [edit please do not post links to commercial sites] gosh I am becoming a one woman alert for this firm. please contact them NOW, they will solve your bailiff problems for you. I guarantee it.

 

Fill in the query form and sit back and wait for the phone call. On no account let the Bailiff in the door.

 

If you are worried about goods being seized, have the HP agreement to hand. they are not to touch anything that is encumbered. Check it out on the watchdog site or better still speak to them and you will find out your rights.

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Ok he should be here soon,i have it in my head what i am going to say to him and over the last 24 hours have learnt more from people on here than anyone else could have told me,i contacted the council again who agreed he did sound as he was taking me for a ride,they have assigned me a lady who i have spoken to before who promises me she will sort all this out and if i do over pay she will get me my money owede back...i cant wait to see his face when i start reeling stuff off to him,yesterday i was ready to just give up...today im fighting for my rights...thank you everyone for your advice but there is one i have to THANK as he gave it to me straight...blfuk1...you may get some gip in here but im glad you told me straigh...thanks everyone x

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He hasnt turned up...ive been sat here with the room door open since 4pm so i know he hasnt been,theres no letter through the letterbox as i can see it from where im sat,i only have an incoming phoneline and i have no credit on my moble,the nearest phone box is a mile away so i cant ring him and why should i,im so blooming annoyed...do you think me ringing the council and seeing the CAB has made him think twice about coming to be bossy with me again...he did state on the phone yesterday he was coming between 4-6pm,i have small children here i cant get things done as im scared i will miss the door...what do i do

 

Louise

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He hasnt turned up...ive been sat here with the room door open since 4pm so i know he hasnt been,theres no letter through the letterbox as i can see it from where im sat,i only have an incoming phoneline and i have no credit on my moble,the nearest phone box is a mile away so i cant ring him and why should i,im so blooming annoyed...do you think me ringing the council and seeing the CAB has made him think twice about coming to be bossy with me again...he did state on the phone yesterday he was coming between 4-6pm,i have small children here i cant get things done as im scared i will miss the door...what do i do

 

Louise

I think it's fairly safe to say he isn't coming - although he may work late. In any event you have no need to worry as he is very unlikely to make a forced entry in your absence and certainly not in your presence. You can't run your family life on the basis of watching your letterbox. If he comes, deal with him at the door. If he doesn't, he'll either phone or call another time. Calm down.......

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Im going to the post office this morning to pay the original bill,im then going to send a cheque to Jacobs with the amount for the 1st and 2nd visit...i will make sure i send it where they have to sign for it at their end...i will then ring the lady at the council and explain to her what ive done and why i did it...hopefully this will work...hes tried to charge me for a levy and a van...he hasnt been in my house to make a levy therefore he cant charge me for a van..will let you know how this goes...thanks everyone

 

Louise

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Whats a paper trail???..sorry to sound stupid...i have written to Jacobs and enclosed this cheque telling them what its for...and its gone registered post,ive also spoken to the lady at the council...is that not enough???...ive also photocopied everything and am keeping notes of times and visits.

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Fantastic news...im so pleased...today i recieved this letter

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re Council Tax

 

Thank you for your £39 payment.

 

We can confirm your account is paid in full and the Local Authorities balance has been paid to them direct.

 

Therefore no recovery action will take place

 

If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact this office

 

Yours faithfully....

 

 

I am so pleased i cant stop smiling...this time last week i was a complete wreck..i honestly believe the reason that baliff didnt show was because when i spoke to him on the phone on the monday i sounded like i knew what i was talking about and not some frightened woman...he was asking for £216.50 and i was ready to believe him...i paid £53 direct to the council...even thought the baliffs letter said DO NOT do this and i sent Jacobs their £22.50 and £16.50 for 1st and 2nd visits...he was asking for £80 for a van and £90 for a levy when in fact he hadnt stepped inside my house..it felt great to send that cheque and know i was in the right...i was willing to hand that over last week just to get rid of him as it scared the living daylights out of me...THANK YOU so much to everyone who helped,i cant thank you enough...Louise x

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Guest HUSBANDKHAN

If ever in the future you god forbid have another run with the bailiffs then read this thread . it will help you very very much.http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/47014-certification-ceremony.html

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I wouldn't have sent the bailiffs anything, after all, what could they do after you paid the bill ?

 

They're hardly going to chase you in the courts for their charges.......

 

My personal inclination would be to cancel the cheques.

Nil Illigitimus Carborundum

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Hi Louise - see told you that once the original council bill was paid all will be fine :) personally I wouldn't have paid the bailiffs a single penny - there is no debt now, so what can they charge for? I have done this in the past and the bailiffs say "we'll still claim our costs" - fine says I... they never ever have

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I wouldn't have sent the bailiffs anything, after all, what could they do after you paid the bill ?
Continue to try to levy for their fees, at the end of the day they are due there lawful fees regardless of personal opinion and have business to run the relies on the fees. You did the right thing by sending them the balance.
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