Dismissed for Gross Misconduct

[CarolineT]

Hi to Everyone,

 

 

I am hoping to get some advice for a colleague of mine who has just been sacked for gross misconduct

 

 

he has not received his final letter stating he can appeal, so we have time to prepare a good appeal, below are an overview of his disciplinary file

 

 

1 Feb 2013 given a 12 month final written warning using bad language in the workplace.

 

 

 

 

clean record from this date on , last week my colleague got into an argument at work, in the stair well with his step daughter and 2 other colleagues, they were shouting at him as their work boots had been damaged and they were in his car , he did not retaliate or shout, he was apologising - his dog peed in their work boots

 

 

they all got suspended 3 of them have got final written warnings on file for 3 months

my colleague has been dismissed as he had a previous final warning on file

 

 

what can he do ?

 

 

he was met with a representative of the company and told to resign

he went to a meeting with a different representative of the company and dismissed

 

 

 

 

now he is at appeal stage ,

 

 

In all of our contracts of employment , it states that disciplinary action will be carried out by our line manager ... the 2 representatives who met with him are not our line manager

by telling him he should resign is that not a pre determined outcome

he actually did nothing wrong

no one has showed him any statements against him

 

 

what can I do to help him, my colleague is not " the Brightest button in the box" but he does work very hard for our company, I feel as do the majority of our workforce is that he is being treated very badly and we would like to help him in some way

 

 

does anyone have any advice

[rebel11]

Hi CarolineT

 

If he did not shout and was merely apologizing, then what exactly has he done?

 

Just because workers shout / argue that doesn't mean they should they should be disciplined.

 

If he hasn't done anything wrong why should he resign? There are no statements that you know of.

 

How long has he worked there? Is he a member of a union?

 

I think you need to wait for the letter to see what the grounds for dismissal are.

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1797

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4098

[CarolineT]

he has been dismissed for using fowl language - which he has not done

there are 3 statement - what they say he does not know as no one has given him copies

he has worked with us for 2 years he is not a member of any trade Union

this is a very simple 44 year old man, who works v hard for our company and does anything they want, to say he is the but of many jokes is an understatement, we are part of a large refit company, we are "managed " by a few people who sit an office 150 miles away from us and we see them maybe once a year

thank you

[rebel11]

It does sound very harsh, yes it happened before, but that was almost two years ago. He needs to ask for the witness statements. When he gets the final letter, the letter will contain instructions on appealing. He should definately appeal, it does sound like his dismissal has nothing to do with the incident, they just want him to leave.

[CrappoMan]

If he had a 12-month final written warning in Feb 2013, that wouldn't be on his file or taken into account after Feb 2014, so his previous warning should have no bearing on the current incident. In other words it would be 'spent'. Or am I missing something ?

[CarolineT]

it should be feb 2014 he had a final wriiten warning

[rebel11]

Well that does change matters, but it does still seem unfair. In the employee handbook, it should set out the disiplinary procedures, have they been followed in this instance? If they haven't that could form part of the appeal. I also note that the others received a final written warning for 3 months, whilst in Feb 2014 he received a final written warning for 12 months, for the same type of incident.

 

Also pleading for his job back with an apology might work.

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/k/b/Acas_Code_of_Practice_1_on_disciplinary_and_grievance_procedures-accessible-version-Jul-2012.pdf

 

Also you say 'to say he is the but of many jokes is an understatement',

if this is the case do management know about this? This could cause him to get upset and react verbally, i.e. foul language etc.

 

Maybe you and your fellow co-workers could write statements to that effect, example some of the jokes so management know what he has to deal with. In reality it is 'bullying'.

 

it should be feb 2014 he had a final wriiten warning

[billathome65]

Firstly, if he went to disaplinary he was entitled to see all witness statements so he could read fully understand an if needed contest anything he may disagree with.

 

The final written was for a totally different issue and although it can be used I think it should not have been used in relation to this matter in my opinion.

 

The guy has worked hard and kept his head down for the past 10 months, so an incident involving three others who receive a final written warning lasting three months in comparison to his 12 month with him being dismissed does seem disproportionate which can be used as part of his appeal as there has to be consistency to be fair.

 

On dismissal was he informed of his right to appeal? If so, he will have a set time to appeal and should have received a form to highlight his wish to do so.

 

You state that when he was being shouted at he did nothing but apologize, how do you know that to be a fact? Did you witness the incident or did others provide witness statements vindicating him? If so, then why was he sacked? If no then it's his word against the three colleges.

 

 

Paragraph removed due to failing eyesight and my mind playing tricks on me

 

Whistle Whistle Whistle did anyone see the paragraph Shhhhhhh Rebel11:-)

 

 

 

All the information given above is just my opinion based on what I would be looking at

Edited December 13, 2014 by billathome65

[rebel11]

Where does the OP say the following?:-

 

'Interestingly, you say he received a final written warning for merely asking a female colleague out on a date who then complained how do you know that to be the case? And also a final written warning for that if fact is totally ott and should have been appealed at the time. '

 

 

Firstly, if he went to disaplinary he was entitled to see all witness statements so he could read fully understand an if needed contest anything he may disagree with.

 

The final written was for a totally different issue and although it can be used I think it should not have been used in relation to this matter in my opinion.

 

The guy has worked hard and kept his head down for the past 10 months, so an incident involving three others who receive a final written warning lasting three months in comparison to his 12 month with him being dismissed does seem disproportionate which can be used as part of his appeal as there has to be consistency to be fair.

 

On dismissal was he informed of his right to appeal? If so, he will have a set time to appeal and should have received a form to highlight his wish to do so.

 

You state that when he was being shouted at he did nothing but apologize, how do you know that to be a fact? Did you witness the incident or did others provide witness statements vindicating him? If so, then why was he sacked? If no then it's his word against the three colleges.

 

Interestingly, you say he received a final written warning for merely asking a female colleague out on a date who then complained how do you know that to be the case? And also a final written warning for that if fact is totally ott and should have been appealed at the time. If they used the final warning as the springboard for sacking him I would then be questioning the reasoning behind the final warning.

 

As he is not in a union he is effectively on his own and I would be inclined to seek professional advice via a solicitor or ACAS.

 

All the information given above is just my opinion based on what I would be looking at

[billathome65]

Hahahaha soooo sorry about that strike that statement it was another post that somehow got mixed with this or my eyes playing tricks on me my bad Go back to sleep Bill:lol:

 

Shhhhhhhhh I also saw some aliens

 

If contracts state line managers do disaplinaries then if the two representatives he met were not "line managers" then that is a breach of policy. However, if they where line managers in the company the company have met that criteria in my opinion you don't say if the contracts state it has to be "his" line manager.

 

If it was one of these same people who advised resignation, then it could be seen as predetermination as line managers would not be seen as impartial (that's only my view.) Especially if he was not advised by a union rep? Union reps balance probabilities and look at the best interests of the individual, however the member does not have to follow the rep's advice.

 

Rereading with the brain working the Final written warning was for abusive language so was in force in this matter the question here is did he respond abusively etc or as stated apologetically? If the latter, then that can be argued, however without seeing the witness statements no case can be fairly heard so that is another strong card in the appeal. Everyone has the right to see allegations against them and in a case at our place, a guy who got sacked stated he had not seen all the statements at his disciplinary I was the one who rep'd him and as far as I was aware he had seen all statements I was given that's not to say the company withheld any I don't know but I believe he was awarded a substantial payout

 

I'm hoping all works out in your friends case. And hope I have saved face Rebell11 Hahahahahahaha

 

Regards Bill

Edited December 13, 2014 by billathome65

[rebel11]

No problem there Bill, easliy done.