Marlin - threatening court on old northern rock 'debt'

[intree]

Hi

 

 

I was hoping the board can help,

 

 

today i received Signed credit agreement from Northern Rock,

which has the details as stated on one page, which include

- interest payable, loan amount, total payable, interest, also signed by me and them.

 

The problems now with them will only escalate as they have been most unhelpful to date

and I think they will now start to hassle me for money I do not have.

 

Any advise would be grateful.

 

Thanks

[intree]

HOPE THIS ONE IS CLEARER.

 

Thanks

northern.pdf

[42man]

I'm sorry to say, I have to agree with Creditcardmug, this one looks to be enforceable Intree....

[intree]

OK, thanks for that, they will have to stay on the reduced payments until I have the funds available, I know they have rejected all offers of Final offers from us to date.

 

I know why now....................Oh well - one more to worry about in due course.

[TheChancellor]

OK, thanks for that, they will have to stay on the reduced payments until I have the funds available, I know they have rejected all offers of Final offers from us to date.

 

I know why now....................Oh well - one more to worry about in due course.

 

Banks are desperate for any cash at the moment but don't let them think the F&F is from your own money or they will keep pushing.If you genuinely have nothing (& no assets) just offer what you can afford each month.

 

Could you explain the "42 days" with AMEX?

[intree]

Hi thanks for that Chancellor, I am trying my best to dealith them, but they all seem to be asking for blood from a stone.

 

The 42 days is 12 days for the SAR plus 30 after they have been sent a dispute letter.

 

I may be wrong.

[pt2537]

Right well, heres something,

there is no statement of rights as required by schedule 2 of SI 1983/1553

 

there is also other information missing from it, however it could be enforceable by a court i do agree there

 

my view and argument would be that you have been denied the statutory rights,remedies and information that the act requires, as a result you have been unduly prejudiced by such failures and seek a lower figure to repay taking this into consideration

[intree]

Thanks for that very much, I know this sounds stupid - but is there a template for such a letter and do I write this to Northern Rock, or when they take further action?

 

Thanks

[42man]

Hi Intree....your SAR should be complied with in 40 days, if not then you need to send them a reminder (which you could head letter before action), if after a further 14 days they still haven't responded then you could take them to court for not complying...

[TheChancellor]

Hi thanks for that Chancellor, I am trying my best to dealith them, but they all seem to be asking for blood from a stone.

 

The 42 days is 12 days for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) plus 30 after they have been sent a dispute letter.

 

I may be wrong.

 

I think it's 12+2 days for the CCA and

 

40 days for the SAR

[intree]

HI PT2573, Please can you advise me if there is a template for such a letter and is that all i need to write to Northern Rock?

 

Your help is appreciated so I can get the letters off to them as soon as possible.

[intree]

Hi Please can you advise I have today received a second letter in response to the letter of dispute confirming that no prescribed terms had been supplied.

 

I have today received a full statement for the account showing all payments made etc ,

printed from a computer log.

 

 

I have also received terms and conditions which are again printed off, as well as the Northern rock copy of the agreement as posted above.

 

the letter states:

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/10/08 received at this office on 31/10/08, which has been passed to me for consideration.

 

I enclose a copy of your credit agreement and the applicable terms and conditions, together with a statement of account.

Please accept my apologies on behalf of NR that this information was not provided in response to your earlier request.

 

I should emphasise that having provided the information which your are entitled to receive under

Sec 77(1) of the CCA 1974, Northern Rock is now entitled to enforce this credit agreement against you.

 

If the enclosed information discloses any item that you wish to dispute,

you should in the first instance write to our complaints team at the address above.

 

G H

DATA PROTECTION OFFICER

UNSECURED PERSONAL LOANS

 

 

I would be grateful if you could let me know the best way to respond.

[42man]

Intree....we know the agreement looks enforceable, i'm not sure if what was said in post #9 is worth pursuing, hopefully if PT feels it has some mileage then he will add to this, .....did you get a copy of a default notice in your SAR ? If there is indeed nothing else that can be done from this stage, I think you should make an affordable repayment plan to them, and reclaim any excessive charges....

[intree]

Hi 42man, I did not receive a default notice, I only CCa'd them they never gave anything else....I take on board what you say............I have a plan through CCCS making them payments but they are going to review that as they state it is not enough........

 

Ill just hold for a while and see what other response I get as I am going to have to see what their next step is.

[42man]

Apologies, intree I thought you had sent a Subject Access Request..!!

[intree]

No Problem,

I did CCa them and the response I received was as in posts 1 to 5,

then as PT, suggested I wrote again confirming in dispute and wanted to point out the non compliance

with the CCA 1974, as the prescribed terms were missing etc etc.

 

The response in post 14, was the response to that dispute letter,

they just sent printed terms and conditions, a further copy of the Agreement and the statements and letter.

 

I am a little concerned with NR as they are very aggressive and have been right from 2001,

they refuse to consider all repayments and then threaten legal action if they dont get what they ask for.

 

I am just trying my best to deal with them as they have also refused the latest offer of £25 PM through the CCCS.

 

Its not really what I need right now, with all the other companies trying to do the same,

but they dont have any agreements which are enforceable...as posted in my other posts..

 

Hope this infor helps to answer my concerns fully

[intree]

Please can I get some advice, regarding the DN and termination of this northern rock account,

I SAR and got back a DN dated 27/08/02 giving me 14 days to pay the arrears and then they demanded full payment.

 

On 02 Sept 2002 they passed the account to Pennine Recovery and they claimed the full balance from me, then started making threats.

 

I complained via the CAB, they then put me on a repayment plan of £26.00 for a 15k loan,

this has been redusing and now stands at 10k,

I am asking was the DN they served defective,

and has the account been terminated due to the asking of the final balance,

if so should I now write back and inform them of this?

 

The have started to send me arrears notiecs, since last year,

but I never knew they had sent a Defective DN

and had asked for all the money back before now and the SAR confirmed this.

 

I can not see any other DN notice in the file, but the termination by penine was initiated and then passed back to NR.

 

Thanks

[intree]

Please can I get some advice, regarding the DN and termination of this northern rock account,

 

 

I Subject Access Request and got back a DN dated 27/08/02 giving me 14 days to pay the arrears and then they demanded full payment.

 

On 02 Sept 2002 they passed the account to Pennine Recovery and they claimed the full balance from me, then started making threats.

 

I complained via the CAB, they then put me on a repayment plan of £26.00 for a 15k loan,

this has been redusing and now stands at 10k,

I am asking was the DN they served defective,

and has the account been terminated due to the asking of the final balance,

if so should I now write back and inform them of this?

 

The have started to send me arrears notiecs, since last year,

but I never knew they had sent a Defective DN

and had asked for all the money back before now

and theSubject Access Request confirmed this.

 

I can not see any other DN notice in the file,

but the termination by penine was initiated and then passed back to NR.

[42man]

Hi Intree....unfortunately as the default note is pre December 2006, then before then they only had to give 7 days to clear the arrears.... - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/156156-help-mum-being-taken.html#post1748774

[intree]

Oh rigth - thanks for that 42man - no wonder they are being a right pain, ill continue to make the paymnets I can afford -

 

thanks

[intree]

Hi

 

 

2 years later the same letter was sent to the new loan buyers who are MARLIN,

 

 

they have been sent the above letter of dispute in February 2014,

heard nothing and then

 

 

they send a letter asking for payment, with a signed copy of the Northern Rock 1 page loan agreement,

and a copy of reconstituted terms on page 2,

 

 

they say they have now confirmed the loan is payable,

but the prescribed terms are not in full on the signed page,

originally they confirmed that they only had page 1,

which did not contain all the prescribed terms under the CCA 1974,

now they send a second page and demand all the payment.

 

Please can someone advise on this matter,

the last payment paid to them was 3 years ago due to no enforceable agreement

then Northern Rock Sold this to MARLIN last year

and they are now trying to enforce this or take me to court.

 

Thank you as always

[intree]

this is the letter sent to them in 2013,

they have now responded with the letter before action

and the original form without perscribed terms and a reconstituted second page

 

NORTHERN ROCK LOANS -NO AGREEMENT – PRESCRIBED TERMS:

FINAL NOTICE

Thank you for your letter dated 23 October 2013

your client is unable to supply an enforceable agreement and yet you have advised this is enforceable,

 

 

accordingly supply me with a copy of the agreement which included the prescribed terms on the signature document,

I now believe the account to be in serious dispute and will ask the Financial Ombudsman to Investigate,

the harassment you and your clients have instigated for a disputed account

and also report the non-disclosure of an agreement to the Information Commissioners' Office,

after 7 days of the date of the communication.

 

This account is in dispute re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

In addition On 5 May 2009 and 23 July 2011 and October 2012,

I wrote to your Clients Head Office requesting that the Northern Rock supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

 

In response to this request I was supplied a mere Application Form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

I now ask you to confirm to me, in addition to the above if the agreement complies with the CCA 1974.

 

Moreover, in light of the complete absence of any enforceable documentation,

I am concerned over Marlin Europe V Limited ’ persistent attempts to pursue payment on an unsubstantiated debt

in defiance of OFT guidelines and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008

by now passing “instructions” and personal data to you.

 

 

According to your letter these are in fact instructions from instructions, from your client’s, clients,

leaving me to assume that neither your client nor your client’s clients have actually informed you of the facts

surrounding the unsubstantiated debt that they have instructed you to pursue

and its current legal unenforceability under The Consumer Credit Act 1974; sec 127 (3).

 

 

I have also assumed that your clients have also failed to mention my recent request for confirmation under CPUTR,

a request that remains outstanding to this day due to the reluctance of your clients to provide an answer one way or the other.

 

Under the circumstances, should you now decide to accept “instructions” from your client

or your client’s clients in the continued absence of any enforceable documentation from anyone at all

and/or fail to confirm upon request whether you, your client (Northern Rock) or your client’s clients (Marlin Europe V Limited)

currently hold or have ever held a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement (Consumer Credit Act, 1974)

in your/their possession under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008,

then you, your clients and your client’s clients will be falling foul of ss.5(2), 3(b), 6 and 7,

their actions/activities will be added to existing complaints and your company will be reported to the Solicitors’ Regulatory Authority

without any further notice.

 

It would appear that Northern Rock have already breached CPUTR 2008 anyway by failing to confirm

or deny their possession of such an Agreement when requested to do so on 23 July 2011 (by recorded delivery)

and passing “instructions” to you regardless.

 

Please therefore take note that this letter serves as an additional formal request under the Consumer Protection

from Unfair Trading Regulations

(CPUTR, 2008 for written confirmation as to whether Northern Rock; NRAM or Marlin Europe V Limited DCA

currently hold or have ever held a properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement in your/their possession

pertaining to myself and if not, to kindly confirm so in writing".

 

Moreover, the document sent purporting to be a Credit Agreement does not contain any of the Prescribed Terms

as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

 

The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act”

sets out what the Prescribed Terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required.

 

 

Suffice to say none of the Terms are present in the document supplied.

 

 

Since this document does not contain the required Prescribed Terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3)

consumer Credit Act 1974,

 

 

which states:

127(3) The Court shall not make an Enforcement Order under section 65(1) if section 61(1) (a) (signing of Agreements)

was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with Regulations under section 60(1))

itself containing all the Prescribed Terms of the Agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land.

Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines,

I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and

what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

● Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

 

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

 

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement,

security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor,

hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

 

(2) Distinguishable from the .

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit Agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation,

which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case.

 

 

Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence

in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the supplied Agreement is unenforceable it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed

and for your client to write the debt off.

 

 

I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended

and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages.

 

I Do not give you consent to visit my property or call me, failure to adhere to this request will result in a complaint to the appropriate bodies

who will be furnished with this notice and costs will be applied for any action taken to remedy this action.

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The OFT is no more, the Financial Conduct Authority has since April 2014 been responsible for the conduct of consumer credit matters regulated by CCA 1974 (as amended).

The FCA Handbook is what you need to looking at.

[intree]

Thank you for that information B2JCS

[intree]

From that information, they are allowed to send reconstituted CCA requests and agreements,

so where do I now stand in this matter and

how can I defend this matter,

as they are going to take the matter to court,

if payment is not made.......??

 

The loan was taken out in 2001, so its nearly 13 years old.