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UK debt being charged and mabe enforced in Italy - please help


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Hello all,

 

I have a debt in the UK and live in Italy, i'm not from either of these countries but still a EU citizen. I have a debt, not real and correct in my opinion but thats another story, that is has been passed to a UK debt collection agency and they now chase me here in Italy. I have not received their letters nor the European payment order they have against me and never received the EEO either so I have never had a chance to contest this. The debt collector has my business address which is also my in-laws company address and they have been calling there and managed to talk with my husband who does not want to talk with them but they keep calling him and bothering about my personal debt, they also sent him these EPO and EEO orders by email and said if I dont pay within 7 days they will send an Italian enforcement Officer to my door. they dont have my home address but just the business one. I have a small business but i earn almost nothing and all my money goes to localtaxes and other payments and i dont have extra money in my account nor any property either so there is not much they can enforce. The debt is 6600£. The debt collector said we should not contact a lawyer when my husband told we will and that we should handel this matter with them. They obviously have contacted a lawyer here in Italy who also called my husband threating us but after all this lawyer didnt know anything about the matter just called as once and sent an email saying to paymhe did not have any Italian documents or paperi to send us. We never received anything by written in post,from the UK not from here. What can I do, will i really find someone at our door soon? Can i ask the UK court to cancel the EPO and EEO as i never received them and it is made an false vases and could it be successful or should I just ignore and wait to se what happens? I'm really worried!

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Woah hold up...

 

How far has it been through the courts? Process is close to this;

 

- DCA in UK receives account.

- Goes to UK Courts

- Gets CCJ & Realizes you live abroad

- Requests a Italian DCA to come after you

- They initiate court proceedings which would have to adhere to UK contract law

- They go for enforcement under Italian Regulations if successful (VERY VERY VERY RARE they are ever successful)

 

 

- EEO & EPO?

 

Could you explain never heard of these. for £6600 to me its not worth the cost...

Please also name and shame the DCAs etc

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Sorry if explained badly! The UK debt collection agency has asked from a UK court an European Payment Order (EPO) for me and as I never received it and got the chance to contest it the UK court gave them also European Enforcement Order (EEO) which I never received either. Now on based these documents they have threaten us to send an Italian enforcement Officer to my home. but i'm not sure if the process here in Italy is so easy. I have no idea what to do!

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Okay so you are at stage 4 or 5 at present. The EEO wont just be "Cancelled"

Have they gone through the Italian courts for enforcement?

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/courts/european-union-cross-border-claims/ex375_1005.pdf

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex725-eng.pdf

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No they have not good through the Italian court yet.

 

Think they have to go to an Italian Court as the next step and then you will be sent notice by the court.

 

You would need to get advice in Italy about how they handle a EEO. I think it is supposed to be a set procedure across the EU and only for those debts that are not disputed. The EEO is registered in the country where the debtor is resident, notice sent to the Italian address and then enforcement actions per Italian rules commenced.

 

The chances are that the UK DCA will pass this on to an Italian or EU mainland based DCA, who will write to you, before they try to register the EEO with an Italian court. They will try this as a cheaper route of debt collection, before they get an Italian lawyer involved who will no doubt want a fee.

We could do with some help from you.

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Sorry if explained badly! The UK debt collection agency has asked from a UK court an European Payment Order (EPO) for me and as I never received it and got the chance to contest it the UK court gave them also European Enforcement Order (EEO) which I never received either. Now on based these documents they have threaten us to send an Italian enforcement Officer to my home. but i'm not sure if the process here in Italy is so easy. I have no idea what to do!

 

They may not have obtained an EPO or EEO. Not unknown for DCA's to tell people information that is misleading or untrue. They may just be saying that these are possible actions and not that they have done this. You have not seen anything from a UK court, which may be an indication that they are trying to trick you.

We could do with some help from you.

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We already got a call from Italian lawyer but he didnt know much about this and sent just an email wit account details where to pay. And the UK DCA told us not to contact a lawyer of our own, maybe they are not sure if they can get through the enforcement process here. But this seems really serious and we are worried. Should i write the UK court informing I never received the payment order as I think my rights are not heard in this case? Maybe they would take a looking at that?

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They may not have obtained an EPO or EEO. Not unknown for DCA's to tell people information that is misleading or untrue. They may just be saying that these are possible actions and not that they have done this. You have not seen anything from a UK court, which may be an indication that they are trying to trick you.

 

They really obtained these, i got the copies by email this week. The payment order is dated May 2013, it has never been delivered to me and the enforcement order is dated February 2014, this was not sent to me either at the time.

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Thats true, i cant believe it either. Are they afraid of something?

 

Has this Italian Lawyer acting for them written to you ?

 

Get some local advice in Italy ? I would not be paying anything until you have had confirmation from an Italian court that they have the EEO and you need to start paying the debt.

 

You never know these days. There are many sc*ms about and you need to have confidence that you are dealing with something sanctioned by an Italian court. I would not be taking any action based on a phone call and email apparently from an Italian Lawyer.

We could do with some help from you.

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The Italian lawyer just called and sent email so nothing has arrived in written and he said he does not have any documents to send us. I'd just ask if I should consider writing to the UK court who admitted the payment order and ask them to review it on the base that I never received it or is it better just to wait and do nothing as so far nothing has been takin to court here?

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The Italian lawyer just called and sent email so nothing has arrived in written and he said he does not have any documents to send us. I'd just ask if I should consider writing to the UK court who admitted the payment order and ask them to review it on the base that I never received it or is it better just to wait and do nothing as so far nothing has been takin to court here?

 

You could contact the UK court to see what they have done. Lack of documents, no chance to dispute.

 

Don't deal with an Italian Lawyer, as you have nothing in writing from them.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, thats what I thought too, as far as i dont receive anything in written i let this be and maybe try to contact directly to the UK court, i think i have some rights to be heard..i cant accept the payment order that never received!

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It sounds like a [problem] to me.

Lawyers in Italy don't talk over the phone or deal via email.

They all send recorded delivery letters (raccomandata con ricevuta di ritorno) because that's what the Italian regulations require.

Also, enforcement officers in Italy can only execute an enforcement order given by an Italian court.

No way they can knock at your door with an English warrant or even an european one.

To get an Italian court warrant it would probably take 10 years (personal experience).

Also, it is very strange that they claim of having a "EEO" but they instructed a "lawyer" to call you for payment.

Why would they waste any money on a lawyer if they can just send in the bailiffs?

The answer is: They don't have any legal right to enforce this warrant and they're trying to con you.

Call back the Italian lawyer and tell him to send all relevant documents by recorded delivery.

Also tell him that you have recorded his telephone call and if he's lied about having a warrant of execution you will report him to the competent authority (foro) so he can be struck off the register (albo degli avvocati).

In Italy the guys running the lawyer conduct authority are merciless and every lawyer is scared of them.

I'm sure the Italian "lawyer" will magically disappear.

I write lawyer in inverted commas because I'm convinced that all of this is a trick to make you pay and there's no lawyer or at most, just a rogue one.

Keep us updated please

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It sounds like a [problem] to me.

Lawyers in Italy don't talk over the phone or deal via email.

They all send recorded delivery letters (raccomandata con ricevuta di ritorno) because that's what the Italian regulations require.

Also, enforcement officers in Italy can only execute an enforcement order given by an Italian court.

No way they can knock at your door with an English warrant or even an european one.

To get an Italian court warrant it would probably take 10 years (personal experience).

Also, it is very strange that they claim of having a "EEO" but they instructed a "lawyer" to call you for payment.

Why would they waste any money on a lawyer if they can just send in the bailiffs?

The answer is: They don't have any legal right to enforce this warrant and they're trying to con you.

Call back the Italian lawyer and tell him to send all relevant documents by recorded delivery.

Also tell him that you have recorded his telephone call and if he's lied about having a warrant of execution you will report him to the competent authority (foro) so he can be struck off the register (albo degli avvocati).

In Italy the guys running the lawyer conduct authority are merciless and every lawyer is scared of them.

I'm sure the Italian "lawyer" will magically disappear.

I write lawyer in inverted commas because I'm convinced that all of this is a trick to make you pay and there's no lawyer or at most, just a rogue one.

Keep us updated please

 

It was probably someone at the UK DCA phoning putting on an Italian accent.

 

Another thought occured to me. If they are phoning and sending emails, perhaps they don't have the current Italian residential address. Or they don't want to put anything in writing by post, because they are not who they claim to be or are not acting properly.

We could do with some help from you.

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It was probably someone at the UK DCA phoning putting on an Italian accent.

 

Another thought occured to me. If they are phoning and sending emails, perhaps they don't have the current Italian residential address. Or they don't want to put anything in writing by post, because they are not who they claim to be or are not acting properly.

 

It was a real Italian lawyer but he did not want to tell his name or leave his number. But we got these details from the email he sent. My husband then called him and asked if he has any documents to send as we are not paying anything based on phone cals and e-mails as we are not so stupid and he said he does have only his copy of the papers but cannot send us anything..he said he will ask the UK DCA to call us and when they called is they just told us not to spese with the lawyer of our own. For sure he has the european enforcement order but if they cannot use it without Italian court order it's not worth much and propably this Italian lawyer knows it too and is just tryng to scare us.

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It was a real Italian lawyer but he did not want to tell his name or leave his number. But we got these details from the email he sent. My husband then called him and asked if he has any documents to send as we are not paying anything based on phone cals and e-mails as we are not so stupid and he said he does have only his copy of the papers but cannot send us anything..he said he will ask the UK DCA to call us and when they called is they just told us not to spese with the lawyer of our own. For sure he has the european enforcement order but if they cannot use it without Italian court order it's not worth much and propably this Italian lawyer knows it too and is just tryng to scare us.

 

I think you should just ignore and don't do anything until you get something official through the post from an Italian court.

 

Don't make any more phone calls, don't speak to them and don't send or reply to any emails.

 

If you speak to them or email them, they will think you are looking like easy prey.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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It sounds like a [problem] to me.

Lawyers in Italy don't talk over the phone or deal via email.

They all send recorded delivery letters (raccomandata con ricevuta di ritorno) because that's what the Italian regulations require.

Also, enforcement officers in Italy can only execute an enforcement order given by an Italian court.

No way they can knock at your door with an English warrant or even an european one.

To get an Italian court warrant it would probably take 10 years (personal experience).

Also, it is very strange that they claim of having a "EEO" but they instructed a "lawyer" to call you for payment.

Why would they waste any money on a lawyer if they can just send in the bailiffs?

The answer is: They don't have any legal right to enforce this warrant and they're trying to con you.

Call back the Italian lawyer and tell him to send all relevant documents by recorded delivery.

Also tell him that you have recorded his telephone call and if he's lied about having a warrant of execution you will report him to the competent authority (foro) so he can be struck off the register (albo degli avvocati).

In Italy the guys running the lawyer conduct authority are merciless and every lawyer is scared of them.

I'm sure the Italian "lawyer" will magically disappear.

I write lawyer in inverted commas because I'm convinced that all of this is a trick to make you pay and there's no lawyer or at most, just a rogue one.

Keep us updated please

 

Thanks for help, will update the situation when we have more news. The point is that the UK DCA says they can send enforcement Officer with the european enforcement order to our home if we dont pay in 7 days. The Italian lawyer said if we dont pay they will come to enforce (pignoramento) but if they need the Italian enforcement order then I guess it is not simple as they make it sound.

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I think you should just ignore and don't do anything until you get something official through the post from an Italian court.

 

Don't make any more phone calls, don't speak to them and don't send or reply to any emails.

 

If you speak to them or email them, they will think you are looking like easy prey.

 

Thanks, we dont want to speak with them! So if they call we just say to contact us in written and stop calling?

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Thanks for help, will update the situation when we have more news. The point is that the UK DCA says they can send enforcement Officer with the european enforcement order to our home if we dont pay in 7 days. The Italian lawyer said if we dont pay they will come to enforce (pignoramento) but if they need the Italian enforcement order then I guess it is not simple as they make it sound.

 

It is quite normal for debt collectors to tell fibs to get people to pay. You have not had anything in writing in the post. Only emails and phone calls.

 

Did the DCA obtain the EEO in the UK, knowing you were in Italy ? If this is the case, you should contact the UK court to advise them of this. You may be able to apply to have the court judgement set aside.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, we dont want to speak with them! So if they call we just say to contact us in written and stop calling?

 

Yes

We could do with some help from you.

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Did the DCA obtain the EEO in the UK, knowing you were in Italy ? If this is the case, you should contact the UK court to advise them of this. You may be able to apply to have the court judgement set aside.

Yes, thats what they did and i never got the information here. It was made in February 2014.

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