HELP! Advice needed regarding Money Claim and subsequent defence filed

[JamieStapleton]

Unfortunately I did not discover this website and its advice until after this problem raised its head. I have completed the bank charge recovery steps up to money claim. Without knowing I made a money claim online and did not include all the needed information such as Account details, etc.

 

Lloyds TSB lawyers have obviously had fun with this as their defence pretty much pulled apart my claim regarding the wording and missing information. My question is do I cancel this claim and raise a new one with the correct wording or can I get away with send a letter to the court asking to amend my claim and wording?

 

Any help would be much appreciated

[foxyred]

I don't know for sure but I would have thought that once you supply the information that they request it should be fine. I would just send a letter to the courts giving the information that is missing with an apology for not including it before. Send a copy to LTSB and/or their solicitors and then everyone should be happy.

 

Get advice from a mod though as I'm not an expert.

[GaryH]

Jamie,

 

Please post the exact contents of your 'particulars of claim' and someone will be able to advise you further.

 

Also, did you send a shedule of charges to Lloyds or the court?

[JamieStapleton]

Ok, I sent the two letters derived, from the templates, detailing all the charges itemised and account details, etc. I did not include this in the money claim step though, stupid!

 

The defence they filed is long winded so i'll just relay the sections that are refering to the statement of claim:

 

2. The defence is served without predjudice to the defendant's contention that the statement of claim is insufficiently paticularised and is embarrassing. The defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Statement of Claim once they are sufficiently particularised.

 

3. The defendant will object that the Particulars of Claim in this action disclose no reasonable cause of action against the Defendant and makes no allegations against the defendant as to why the defendant should be liable to the claimant for the amount claimed.

 

4. The Particulars of Claim do not comply with the Civil Procedure Rules as (amongst other things) they do not identify the account in question that appears to form the subject matter of these proceedings or indeed show how the sum of £194.40 is arrived at and the Particulars of Claim are too vague. The Statement of Claim shows no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

 

5. The Claimant should, therefore, be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for his claim as there is no pleaded basis for the claim itself. The Claimant should give full Particulars of the Bank Account and the charges he is seeking to recover, indentifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the Claimant in each case he alleges it is a disproportionate and thus unlawful.

[GaryH]

Yes, but what exactly did you put in your moneyclaim particulars?

[JamieStapleton]

Oops sorry, here it is:

 

"Recovery of unfair bank charges (See OFT

ruling that default charges which are set at

more than £12 will be presumed to be unfair

and unenforceable in terms of the Unfair

Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

(SI. 1999/2083)) from 01 July 2002 to 01

August 2006 totaling £180.00.

 

The claimant claims interest under section 69

of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of

8% a year from 01 July 2002 to 21 October

2006 of £ 14.40"

[GaryH]

You need apply to amend your claim using a N244 application form. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c.../n244_0400.pdf. This carries a fee of £35.

 

Fill it out something like this:

 

Top left hand box:

 

1. Tick c), without a hearing

 

Leave the rest blank

 

Part A:

 

I ***** (the claimant)

 

(that....) allows an amendment to the above claim in respect of the claim particulars

 

(because....) the claimant made an error in not adequately particularising the claim

 

Part B:

 

tick 'evidance in part C' box

 

Part C:

 

Something like;

 

"I respectfully request that the court allows an amendment to my particulars of claim.

 

(brief explaination of why the amendment is needed, etc...............)

 

Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, as well as a schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant, plus statutory interest claimed"

 

 

Print out the N1 particulars of claim from the templates library, set the page out like this:

 

YOUR NAME v LLOYDS TSB

in the ******* COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NO: *******

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant [has] [had] an account 1 ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around 2 [and closed on or around 2 ]

 

2. During the period in which the Account [has been] [was] operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £ 3 and any interest charged thereon;

 

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

 

 

Signed:

 

 

Date:

 

 

Attach your schedule of charges and take 3 copies to the court, along with 3 copies of the completed N244. Tell the court staff what has happened, apologise for their inconveniance, and ask that your current particulars of claim are disregarded and replaced by the new ones. It will have to go before a judge to ok the amendment, and you could possibily get called for an application hearing which is nothing to worry about.

[JamieStapleton]

For the sake of convenience is it not easier if I cancel the claim and start a new claim with the correct wording?

[rose poupard]

Can Anyone Help With Form N149

[GaryH]

Up to you. You won't get your fee back though, but then I suppose thats cancelled out by the application fee anyway. Also, if its amended you'll still be in the same place along the timescale, whereas if you issue a new one you're back to waiting 14 days for an acknowledgement, then another 14 for a defence, etc.

 

If you do decide to file a new claim, make sure you write to the court and inform them you want to drop the current one first.

[GaryH]

Can Anyone Help With Form N149

 

Please start your own thread.

 

There are AQ guidance notes in the templates library.

[JamieStapleton]

Thanks for the advice it has been invaluable. I think for the sake of convenience I will cancel the existing case and raise a new one with the correct wording. To be sure, is there any penelty charges for cancelling the case and do Lloyds TSb have any grounding for the susequent case based on the fact that I have cancelled the first claim?

[GaryH]

No, you will not be penalised, although the court may be slightly irritated by it. I'd give serious consideration to filing you claim on an N1, direct to your local court this time. This give much more scope for accurate particularisation than Moneyclaim, where space is tight.

 

Just make sure you cancel the first claim in writing first, and you should'nt have a problem.

[JamieStapleton]

I ended up taking your advice and amending my claim. The judge approved the amendment without a hearing and the case has been scheduled for January the 8th.

 

It does make me wonder why Lloyds solicitors suggested amending the claim because it has only strengthened my position??

[GaryH]

Excellant. Good decision methinks!

 

So you've been allocated a court date then, yes? On the notice of allocation you should have some directions to provide evidance, etc. Ensure you comply with these by the date specified and a settlement should follow soon after that. Most of what you will need is in the court bundle in the templates library, but if you need any further assistance, post up the directions and I'll help you with exactly what you need. My statement of evidance is here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/7744-garyh-lloyds-tsb-unconditionally-3.html#post339177. Use any of it that you think is useful.

[JamieStapleton]

Lloyds Settled in full last week.

 

They just credited my account and sent a letter to the court without a word to me. Seems like they're getting all bitter and twisted and not bothering to inform the claimant now??!

 

Thanks people for all your help.

[BARTY]

Congratulations!! :D

Barty:)