Lowells/Carter / Lloyds TSB - Current Account Court Claim***Claim Discontinued***

[AndyOrch]

"Last thing I'd like to ask - in point 8, should I point out all the documents requested by me or just "Agreement and Termination Demand Notice"? In my CPR I asked for:

 

1: The agreement/ overdraft Facility confirmation and Terms and Conditions from that date pursuant to section 61B of The Credit Consumer Act 1974.

 

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 

3: Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

 

4. Notice of Assignment

 

 

You have already requested the above e) covers Notice of Assignment and Notice of Sums in Arrears it not applicable to an Overdraft.The above in red is not applicable anyway to claims issued from Northampton.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[project01]

Thanks a lot!

 

I've just submitted it through MCOL, next step is to make a donation towards this amazing forum Thanks again, will keep you updated

 

Kind regards

[AndyOrch]

[project01]

Welcome back!

 

I had a few letters from Bryan Carter,

 

they are willing to accept the full balance by a monthly payments,

they are also open to an offers and if reasonable that's it.

 

Obviously I don't want to do that and find that quite cheeky for them to act like this,

I think they may proceed with it.

 

I'm attaching the couple of letters from them and

 

also a notice from the Court that came together with a questionaire,

 

it is called "Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track".

 

I have a time till 26th of August to reply to that but I'm bit lost now as I thought they will give up by now.

 

Many thanks,

B

Edited August 10, 2014 by project01

[dx100uk]

letter 3 has ref number

[project01]

Thanks, edited it now

[AndyOrch]

Its your call now project...you can either accept his offer and settle by consent or try to negotiate a reduced settlement figure...either way you must submit your DQ on time and serve a copy to him also.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[project01]

Hi Andy,

 

Do you mean I can choose between accepting paying them the whole £1300 OR try to negotiate and lower this? Hmmm... really I was hoping they will just give up, so my case is not that strong then? Even if it is a statue barred and also that the whole amount has been made up from a charges?

 

Sorry but I'm getting confused now here, so going to a hearing and fighting Bryan Carter is not an option then? I imagine costs involved would outtake the potential savings. Thanks.

 

All the best

B

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy,

 

Do you mean I can choose between accepting paying them the whole £1300 OR try to negotiate and lower this? I would Hmmm... really I was hoping they will just give up,Thats unlikely so my case is not that strong then? Why who said it wasnt?Even if it is a statue barred and also that the whole amount has been made up from a charges? Cant get any stronger

 

Sorry but I'm getting confused now here,confusing me also so going to a hearing and fighting Bryan Carter is not an option then? Yes who said it wasnt ? I imagine costs involved would outtake the potential savings.Not if SCT Thanks.

 

All the best

B

 

I was merely explaining your options given their responses

[project01]

Ha, it's getting funny now, unless I'm just being a thick a little on this one, well, maybe I should better blame my English skills instead

 

Ok, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

 

- If my case is so strong why should I even negotiate with them? Is it just to show a goodwill/save hassle to the Court & taxpayers money etc.? I can't see a point in negotiating because I simply would like to bring it down from £1300 to £0, I mean in a real world I'd be prepared to pay them £50-£100 in order to settle down just for the sake of avoiding further hassle and a waste of more of time but I doubt they will accept this. If it will come down to £500 for example I still won't accept this.

 

- You said it is unlikely they will give up, but if my case is so strong why would they still want to proceed? Seems a bit daft on their part

 

- When I asked about a costs I had in my mind vision of me travelling to Northampton, using a solictor services and all of that, I doubt I would be able to go to hearing on my own and start successfully defending my case, as you can see I'm struggling to fully understand this thread not to mention the visit to the Court

 

All the best,

B

[shamrocker]

Ha, it's getting funny now, unless I'm just being a thick a little on this one, well, maybe I should better blame my English skills instead

 

Ok, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

 

- If my case is so strong why should I even negotiate with them? Is it just to show a goodwill/save hassle to the Court & taxpayers money etc.? I can't see a point in negotiating because I simply would like to bring it down from £1300 to £0, I mean in a real world I'd be prepared to pay them £50-£100 in order to settle down just for the sake of avoiding further hassle and a waste of more of time but I doubt they will accept this. If it will come down to £500 for example I still won't accept this.

 

I'm no expert on this but have been through these stages on Fast Track and with a weaker defence than you, but I wouldn't bother offering them a small amount as a full settlement as they won't accept it and will probably perceive it as a need to avoid court. If you had a lump sum of £500 then it might be worth a try as a Without Prejudice offer. If the amount was mostly made up of charges then I'd be reluctant to hand anything over either - I see it as (il)legal robbery of those with the least income.

 

- You said it is unlikely they will give up, but if my case is so strong why would they still want to proceed? Seems a bit daft on their part

 

They prey on fear and ignorance. They hope you'll fold in the end. They've gone this far, but you won't know how far they will take it before cutting their loses. There's plenty of cases on here where very weak claims were pursued all the way to hearing - some where the claimant didn't show up. Therefore, if you proceed, you need to be willing to see it all the way. I should add that you'll have other opportunities to pull out later if it got too much for you - I would just double-check with Andy about possible cost implications if you drag it out for a bit. My understanding is that costs shouldn't be an issue in claims for under £10k.

 

- When I asked about a costs I had in my mind vision of me travelling to Northampton, using a solicitor services and all of that, I doubt I would be able to go to hearing on my own and start successfully defending my case, as you can see I'm struggling to fully understand this thread not to mention the visit to the Court

 

The hearing will be transferred to your local of court. You will presumably represent yourself in court, so there's no costs on that part. Just bear in mind that if you work you'll need to take time off and probably try to sneak into the court without anyone recognising you (yes, that was me!). Although I've attended court once, I have yet to argue my corner and the thought does not thrill me, but I feel more confident about it now due to constantly reading up on the points of my defence and also by trying to prepare myself for the likely angles being set up by the other side. It gets easier to plan your approach once you're in possession of the actual evidence relied upon by them.

 

 

All the best,

B

 

On the whole, take your time to decide what to do. Read up on as many relevant articles and threads as you can and it'll increase your depth of understanding around the subject. The question that springs to mind with me is whether it's appropriate to take a two-pronged attack on this - one on the charges and the other on the fact that it's statute barred. Others can advise you best on this.

 

I would imagine the claimant will have to provide bank statements at the disclosure stage and this will provide some answers, both regards to account transactions and also the exact history in terms of your SB claim. There are also other threads on here in relation to overdraft claims - they will be worth a read so you can get to understand any statutory requirements placed upon the creditor with regards an overdraft facility, compared to, for example, a credit card. When all's said and done though, I doubt very much that you'll need to present any other defence than the statute barred one.

 

Keep asking questions on here if you're not clear on various points - you won't always get the full details or a full elaboration of a particular point in one go, so don't be afraid to keep asking for information if you're not clear on something or there are some obvious points being overlooked. But, do go away and read up on stuff and show the guys you're making an effort aside from what you're being spoon fed.

 

I wish you well!

 

Sham

[AndyOrch]

Ha, it's getting funny now, unless I'm just being a thick a little on this one, well, maybe I should better blame my English skills instead

 

Ok, I have a few questions if you don't mind.

 

- If my case is so strong why should I even negotiate with them? Is it just to show a goodwill/save hassle to the Court & taxpayers money etc.?You dont have to negotiate with them ...again I was merely explain their response and your options which as your debt is staute barred you just ignore them I can't see a point in negotiating because I simply would like to bring it down from £1300 to £0, I mean in a real world I'd be prepared to pay them £50-£100 in order to settle down just for the sake of avoiding further hassle and a waste of more of time but I doubt they will accept this. If it will come down to £500 for example I still won't accept this.

 

- You said it is unlikely they will give up, but if my case is so strong why would they still want to proceed? Seems a bit daft on their part.Certainly does and we say the same for all the other claims were its statute barred and they wish to proceed...well they give all the signals they wish to proceed hoping you will respond to their offers...but then they discontinue the claim.

 

- When I asked about a costs I had in my mind vision of me travelling to Northampton, using a solictor services and all of that, I doubt I would be able to go to hearing on my own and start successfully defending my case, as you can see I'm struggling to fully understand this thread not to mention the visit to the Court .You dont go to Northampton it comes to you (Local County Court)

 

All the best,

B

 

As advised already you really need to read a few threads on the process ...then you wont struggle to understand the game.

[project01]

Hello!

 

Thanks for all your precious comments and suggestions,

 

 

I've spent quite a lot of time digging through all the threads ana I finally came to the decision I believe was the best in my situation.

 

I've sent back DQ and marked that I'm willing to negotiate,

 

 

I had a phonecall from mediation centre though few days ago and we have changed that to "no negotiation" as I can't be so flexible.

 

 

Looks like it will go through to the judge, unless Bryan Carter will pull out which I think it's quite possible and really wise to do for them.

 

I will keep you informed and once again thanks for your help!

 

Kind regards

B

[project01]

Quick update,

 

I've receieved a Notice Of Transfer Of Proceedings.

 

Maybe someone will find it useful for future to track my case all the way up from the start so I'm also attaching a scan of it so you know what to look for.

 

As far as I know I can only wait now for directions from my local Court.

 

Thanks

B

[project01]

Hello again,

 

So the big day is coming, just before Christmas, hope it won't ruin my celebrations

 

I've received this letter asking to send all the documents to each parties and to the court 14 days before the hearing.

 

Do I send my submitted defence and all letters sent to the Bryan Carter? I'm not quite sure what does witness statement means. Thanks in advance and wish you a happy Xmas!

 

PS. I'm nervous as hell, glad hearing will only take an hour or so

 

Kind regards

B

[AndyOrch]

Hi Project

 

Your Ws is a statement of evidence in your own words...that will support your defence...take a look at others for examples of how to lay it out.You can refer to case law or documents but dont include them in the Ws just refer to them as (See Exhibit xxxx) and attach.

 

Standard disclosure is everything you have referred to and will rely on to support your defence...if you dont list it and disclose it you cant use it.

 

It is very important that you comply with the directions by the date stated.

 

Andy

[project01]

Thanks Andy, so Witness Statement is the only thing I have to prepare then. Thanks for confirmation!

[AndyOrch]

And your disclosure

[project01]

Standard disclousre which is my original CPR request I sent back in June?

 

As Below:

 

 

 

Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP

11 De Havilland Drive

Weybridge

Surrey

KT13 0YP

 

30/06/2014

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re: LOWELL PORTFOLIO I LTD v

Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 14th June 2014 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest and counter claim all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of each of the following documents mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1: The agreement/ overdraft Facility confirmation and Terms and Conditions from that date pursuant to section 61B of The Credit Consumer Act 1974.

 

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2: The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974

 

3: Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

 

4. Notice of Assignment

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence as required under CPR15.5.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

[AndyOrch]

No that is a CPR request for disclosure.....standard disclosure is anything you have referred to or wish to rely on to back up your defence/witness statement...IE the above and their response a CCA request and their response...default Notice or statements or anything in connection as to to why you don't owe any debt.

[project01]

Or do I just make a spreadsheet and enter all the documents I have + dates, any correspondence between myself and carter? Bank statements etc.?

[AndyOrch]

Just a list will suffice and then attach everything you wish to rely on...only anything beneficial to your defence.

[project01]

Thanks, I should cope with Standard Disclosure now.

Is this Witness Statement worth anything?

 

 

===========================================================================================

IN THE COUNTY COURT AT XXXXX CLAIM NO:

 

BETWEEN:

 

LOWELL PORTFOLIO I LTD Claimant

 

-and-

Project01 Defendant

 

 

WITNESS STATEMANT OF MR PROJECT01

I, Mr Project01 the defendant in this claim make the following statement believing it to be true will state as follows:-

 

I have held a current account with Lloyds in the past. The account was opened on or around xxx xxxx 20xx and used to facilitate the payment of my income and expenditure.

 

On receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 30th June 2014 namely the Agreement and Termination Demand Notice referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim. The Claimant has failed to comply with this request.

The Alleged debt is made up of ‘Unplanned Overdraft Charges’, ‘Returned DD Default Charges’, no money was physically borrowed or any DD etc paid for.

 

Lloyds "upgraded" my free current account into the "select" account without my knowledge or request. This implied a monthly charge of £3.50 rising to £7 after 3 months

 

I believe this debt is statue barred as the last payment has been made in June 2007

 

I deny that the alleged amount was for finance service or goods but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. The amount claimed consists entirely of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments.

 

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

 

 

Signed ……………….

 

Dated on the day ………………..2014

Edited December 9, 2014 by project01

[AndyOrch]

IN THE COUNTY COURT AT XXXXX CLAIM NO:

 

BETWEEN:

 

LOWELL PORTFOLIO I LTD Claimant

-and-

Project01 Defendant

 

 

WITNESS STATEMANT OF MR PROJECT01

 

I, Mr Project01 the defendant in this claim make the following statement believing it to be true will state as follows:-

I have held a current account with Lloyds in the past. The account was opened on or around xxx xxxx 20xx and used to facilitate the payment of my income and expenditure.

 

I believe this debt is statue barred as the last Deposit was been made in June 2007.There has been no further activity since this date.

 

Notwithstanding the above, on receipt of this claim I requested documentation by way of a CPR 31.14 request dated 30th June 2014, namely the Facility Agreement pursuant to section 61B of The Consumer Credit Act and Termination Demand Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 referred to in the claimants Particulars of Claim.

 

The Claimant has declined to respond with this request and failed to evidence any documents on which its claim is based upon.

 

The Alleged debt is entirely made up of ‘Unplanned overdraft Charges’, ‘Returned Direct Debit Default Charges’, no money was physically borrowed or any Direct Debit etc was processed.

 

Lloyds "upgraded" my free current account into the "select" account without my knowledge or request. This implied a monthly charge of £3.50 rising to £7 after 3 months

 

 

I deny that the alleged amount was for finance service or goods but is as a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties being applied to the account. The amount claimed consists entirely of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments.

 

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.

 

 

Signed ……………….

 

Dated on the day ………………..2014

[project01]

Thanks Andy, I can't thank you enough!

 

I'm working on it in the meantime I have scanned a few documents, do you think they are worth attaching to my standard disclosure?

 

File No.1 is just a contract showing the date account has been opened and also the fact it was a free account.

 

File No.2 & 3 are not really a notice of default as such but don't have anything better

 

File No.4 says Notice of Defaulting but it has been issued by another debt collection agency so I assume it's useless

 

Thanks

Edited December 9, 2014 by project01