newlyn Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts - Newlyn***Appeal Successful***

[Jamberson]

This sounds like quite a complex case.

 

First of all ignore the rubbish about taking you to court and your credit file, etc. It's nonsense.

 

So far as this "transfer of ownership" is concerned - please will you be 100 percent honest about what happened. Did you sell the car, or give it away? If you sold it, did you exchange any sort of paperwork? If you gave it away, why, if you don't know the person. This really is important information, so we need to know the facts.

 

Now the TE7/TE9. You have stated "I have not received the original pcn as I had transferred ownership of the vehicle and I was not in possession of the vehicle.

Also, I have not received the Notice to Owner as I had moved to a different address before the PCN was issued."

 

First of all, don't use the phrase "transfered ownership". You can only relinquish ownership by selling it or giving it away - so be clear, so they believe you. If you sold it, say that.

 

And yes, include anything you can to support what you say - especially the change of address. You can presumably prove that with tenancy agreements or some such? Include copies - prove to them that you did not get the correspondence. It will help a great deal. And write on the actual form, which documents you are attaching so that is is all clear.

 

As for sending them by email, you can do this but I would recommend you also send physical paper copies by recorded delivery, with copies of the documents.

[Jamberson]

Jamberson.

 

Thanks for the insight.

Much appreciated.

I sold the car in exchange of money, to be clear.

And I have texts which prove that the transaction took place.

 

And also, I do have a tenancy agreement for the new place although it is sublet accommodation.

 

Hope this clarifies things a bit more.

Why would you say that it's a complex case?

 

Thanks.

 

In that case, on your forms, state that you "sold it". If your texts prove it, then try and get them onto paper somehow - can you send them to email? Or photocopy the screen? If you can, then you ought to include them as evidence. I presume you don't know anything about the buyer, like a name and address? And there are no bank records to show you paid the money in?

 

Tenancy agreement is great - the relevant pages will prove you moved, and show when that was.

 

With all this it becomes a reasonably good case for the TE7/9 to succeed.

 

I only said it was complex because before you explained everything, it seemed that way. Now it's much clearer, I can see that it's not that complex at all. It's just a pity you don't have the buyer's personal details, which would help. You might be wise to add onto the forms some sort of explanation of how you sold it without the V5 - up to you.

[Jamberson]

Great. So as longs as you explain that to them, your case is looking reasonable.

 

So the TE9 is where you tick the box stating that you did not receive the Notice to Owner. And then the TE7 is where you explain why your application is "out of time" - because you'd sold the car etc, so never knew there was a PCN outstanding, and moreover you moved house on such-and-such date, and so never recevived any correspondence about it before the bailiffs contacted you.

 

So long as your explanation is reasonable and plausible, it's a good case. I've seen a lot worse ones!

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

If it succeeds, then all the bailiff fees will be revoked. You will still have the original PCN against you, but you will then be able to contest liability for that on the basis that you were not the owner - but first things first.

[Jamberson]

The fact that you didn't let DVLA have your new address is not important to this process. Even if you had, the council would still have written to your old address since they have to obtain keeper details from the day of the PCN, and so it makes no difference. In any case, it's not grounds to reject your application. Personally, I don't think I'd go into details.

 

You don't need to cross out the witness part. Just sign and date, as it says.

 

Your statement is OK, but I would make it a little clearer if it were me. Something like this (you can use a continuation sheet if it doesn't fit inside the box (just write "continues on a separate sheet"):

 

 

This application is late because I did not received the original pcn nor any correspondence from the council, and so was unaware there was a PCN on the vehicle.

 

I did not get the PCN because I sold the vehicle on 12/04/2013. It was sold without the V5C as it was lost, but the new owner agreed to complete a V62 in order to have the vehicle registered to him from that date. He must have failed to do so, but I can show evidence of the sale (see Attachment 1).

 

I did not then receive the Notice to Owner (or later correspondence) because shortly after the sale of the car, I had moved to a different address in the belief that I was no longer registered at DVLA. Consequently, you were writing to my old address using out-of-date keeper details. I attach proof of my address, and of when I moved (see Attachment 2).

 

Therefore, I apply on the basis that I did not receive a Notice to Owner, because it would have been sent to my old address.

[Jamberson]

No. It wouldn't affect their decision, and might sound cheesy.

[Jamberson]

You don't need to advise them now, because the case is already on hold. Nothing will happen.

 

Maybe if you've not heard anything in a week's time, give the council a call and check they've received the TE7/TE9 from TEC.

[Jamberson]

The time scale varies widely, but 2-3 weeks is typical. As I said, if you don't hear back from the Council with some sort of confirmation, just give them a bell and check they received the application from TEC.

 

What happens is that TEC get the application from you. They then notify the Council same day by email. The Council the put an immdiate hold on the case for something like 100 days, and instruct the bailiff not to take any further action until notified. This suspends all enforcement for as long as they need.

 

Then, in the next few days the council receives your paperwork from TEC by post (at least, that's how it used to be done) and they have something like 28 days to consider it and make a decision.

[Jamberson]

Bailiffs like to instill worry in people - it makes them pay up. There is no risk of a county court judgment in connection with a PCN. It's just a bluff. You don't have one and you never will.

[Jamberson]

Legally they have a warrant of execution - a licence to attempt to seize your goods to take to auction, to settle a debt. That's all. Their favourite method is to clamp your car, and that forces 9/10 people to pay up, or their car is removed and sold.

 

The registering of the debt sounds more serious than it is. Basically, to get authorisation to appoint bailifs, the council needs to get TEC (Northampton County Court) to approve it - which they do automatically. So the debt is registered at the court, then bailiffs get the case to follow-up on.

 

The debt includes the original amount owed to the council plus the bailiff's own fees, charged during the process. Even in the event the bailiff can't get any goods and can't get payment, there's no black mark against you, it doesn't affect your credit rating whatever happens, and there will be no CCJ.

[Jamberson]

100% correct.

[Jamberson]

I thought they did. Just phone the council and ask if they've got your papers from TEC.

[Jamberson]

Wait until tomorrow and ask again. If TEC have just acknowledged receipt it is reasonable to assume they have only just forwarded it to the council. It should be on record there by tomorrow. Although you state bailiffs are due to commence actions, you did say above that the case had already been put on hold for 28 days. Plenty of time.

[Jamberson]

Check with the council again. If they deny receipt of forms from TEC, phone TEC and tell them the council don't have the forms.

[Jamberson]

I have done that. the council 'said they would call TEC and call me back'

They haven't called me back.

 

Check with the council again. If they deny receipt of forms from TEC, phone TEC and tell them the council don't have the forms.

[Jamberson]

You can always file some more forms if you want.

[Jamberson]

Why don't you post something on the bailiff section, here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?168-Enforcement-Agents-%28Bailiffs-amp-High-Court-Enforcement-Officers%29

 

People on there will know more about the process.

[Jamberson]

Yes, but post on the bailiff forum for better advice.

[Jamberson]

The car colour isn't an issue in itself. If you are concerned that your plates have been cloned, ask the council for a photo of the car when it was ticketed. Then you can see if it's your car or a different one.

[Jamberson]

Yes they will.