TFL is threatening me with court.

[wwwhvw]

Hello.

 

Basically on the 13/04/2014. I went to my local shop known as Telfords in South/Dormers Wells Lane. To top up my Oyster card by £2. I only needed to make one journey to Ealing Broadway to see my boyfriend at work and I already had 40p on it. I bought a bottle of Ribena and paid by card the total was £4.28. The shop owner realized he charged a pound too much and gave a pound coin back. He only gave me the card payment recepit, but not the little one that shows you made the payment on the oyster. So I left.

 

I got the bus, went to scan the card. It didn't work. Which was strange, even though I just topped it up 15 mins or so ago. I showed him my card recepit and he said I can get on. But if the Inspectors came on. I would have hassle. I understood this and got on. At around Grovesnor Road. They got on. Came up upstairs. I immediatley said along the lines of "I did top up, but it wouldn't scan for some reason." They said it was fine, the bus driver explained the situation to them. Then they tried to scan the card, but it didn't work. He then assured me that I wasn't in trouble (I was really getting stressed out because I did top it up and I know I did.) and everything would be fine. He then inspected it and showed me the areas where the card was damaged and said that he can get sent off, have it analysed and I can get a replacement one from them. He asked me where I was going. I said I was only going to Ealing Broadway (At this point I was on the phone to my boyfriend, but didn't hang up, I just held the phone in my hand, because I texted him stating my card wouldn't scan and what had happened thus far), he said this was fine. He then asked how I was traveling, I said bus and said I was only making the one journey today. He said he'll give me an Authority to travel card and filled it out for me, then gave it back to me. He asked for my details, address and dob. Which I happy to do. He said again everything was fine and I was not in trouble. I got off at Ealing Broadway, after saying thank you and being very sorry for the hassle.

 

On the 17th I get a letter stating I will be taken to court. At this point I started bawling my eyes out and had a panic attack, because I took their word and trusted them (I have severe social anixety and depression, so this had set me off.), my boyfriend then called them on my behave because I couldn't speak coherently at the time. He gave them my case number. Then he explained what had happened, then the man on the phone said "Is that what she told you?" as if I was making it up. He held in his anger. And repeated what had happened.

 

The man on the phone said that the inspector either gave me the wrong information or outright lied to me (I've noticed in threads speaking of similar situations, that they lie to you in order to get co-operation out of you.), and that my Oyster card in question had not been topped up since Feb 2007. Which is silly, because I was born in 1992 and I would been in North Wales (Where I use to live) and still be in school. I wasn't even aware of Oyster cards then. Then he gave a second date of Feb 2013. Which was strange because the first time I ever received and used the Oyster card is when I was visiting my boyfriends family in London in Late (around Septemberish) 2013 (my boyfriends mum had bought me the oyster card and topped it up for me), I only used it a few times. Then when I moved down to London in 13/02/2014, I then started to regularly use and top up my Oyster with no issue. The man on the phone said the information they have is "sketchy".

 

They also said that they don't do replacement services. So. I feel like I am being taken for a ride here. They are trying to make me out to be a criminal essentially and I would never dodge a fare.

 

So I am sending my statement, my boyfriends statement of the phonecall he had with one of their employees. The original card recepit and the bank statement showing I paid this amount on this day and it's all right. Then a copy of my authority to travel card because I can't trust them at this point. I also went to my local shop to view the footage of me paying for the top-up with my boyfriend, it even shows me taking out my oyster card and debit card, then paying for the Ribena and top-up and putting the cards away away. They will keep the footage for me and I said in my letter if they still find my account not to be true. They can arrange to view the footage themselves or arrange something reasonable with me in regards of the footage and said I will get the statement of the local shop confirming the CCTV and the events of that day.

 

Also, if I had actually caused an offence, why did I receive the authority to travel card and told I did nothing wrong, I would get a replacement etc and why was I not given on the spot fine?

Edited April 20, 2014 by wwwhvw

[wwwhvw]

I see there so many spelling mistakes in my post, but I hope people understand it. Essentially I live in Southall. And to clarify my bus journey was from Dormers Wells Lane to Ealing Broadway.

[wwwhvw]

I'm interested in seeing if that has happened to other people or their opinions on it.

[wwwhvw]

I've read the prosecution policies of TFL and it seems that they are not following proper protocol with my case and I am really worried that my words have been twisted by tfl or the ticket inspectors themselves. As I've noticed it has happened to other people in a similar situation.

[Conniff]

Just confirm - you have a receipt for topping up ??

[wwwhvw]

Just the recept that says I paid for a top up and ribena at the shop with my debit card.

[rebel11]

Hi wwwhvw

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint, mark it as such. Explain what's happened (paid for top up, Oyster Card didn't work, boarded bus), how they have let you down (told everything was fine, now they want to take you to court) and what you want them to do (stop threatening court action). Explain that you have CCTV evidence that payment was made and that it wasn't your fault that the card wasn't credited with the top up. Explain that you'll happily show the judge the CCTV evidence. Ask the shop if they can provide you with a statement to send along with a copy of the receipt to TLF. Don't forget to add the reference number that's on the letter.

 

Send it to:-

 

Mr Leon Daniels

TLF

Managing Director

[email protected]

[Conniff]

They don't want to take you to court, what they want you to do is go down on your knees and beg, they want you to offer an out of court settlement so as not to go to court and then they get a couple of hundred quid off you.

Your receipt will show the date and time, so call their bluff and elect to go to court.

[wwwhvw]

Thank you for the replies.

I just sent off the statements, evidence off today. (I sent it fully tracked and have proof that I sent it, so if they decide to play the "Oh but we didn't get it" then I can clearly evidence)

I also included a strongly worded covering letter addressing how they are letting me down, and essentially said if they still don't find my account credible. They can go arrange it themselves to go view the CCTV (I realize these type of companies don't like hassle or don't like making the effort) or arrange something reasonable with myself in regards of the footage.

I am fully prepared to take them to court. I am looking to get compensation out of them (as in travel costs and therapy bills) or at least my Oyster card back.

Edited April 22, 2014 by wwwhvw

[Conniff]

You need Old-CodJA on here, he really is the expert on this.

[wwwhvw]

Bah, I tried sending him a private message but it says I filled my quota on sending private messages? And I should make more space or something. Which is weird because..I haven't sent any messages?

[Conniff]

It should have told you that you do not yet qualify to send private messages as you haven't yet made enough posts

 

 

I will give him a buzz, but it will be up to him if he decides to get involved.

[rebel11]

He is aware of the thread.

 

You need Old-CodJA on here, he really is the expert on this.

[wwwhvw]

Ok.

[rebel11]

He's visited the thread, so knows about the issue, he might add info in the future.

 

Ok.

[Old-CodJA]

I just sent off the statements, evidence off today. (I sent it fully track and have proof that I sent it, so if they decide to play the "Oh but we didn't get it" then I can shove the proof of postage in their faces)

I also included a strongly worded covering letter addressing how they are letting me down, and essentially said if they still don't find my account credible. They can go arrange it themselves to go view the CCTV (I realize these type of companies don't like hassle or don't like making the effort) or arrange something reasonable with myself in regards of the footage.

I am fully prepared to take them to court and watch them brick themselves. I will be suprised when they reply to my statement that they don't offer at least a grovelling apology. I am looking to get compensation out of them (as in travel costs and therapy bills) or at least my Oyster card back.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I read through the original post, but didn't have time to reply at that time. I suggest that the first thing to do is not to assume that TfL or the inspectors are out to 'twist your words'. Attacking TfL with such accusations without tangible evidence is very unlikely to endear you to the person who will be reading your complaint.

 

CCTV will not prove anything. All it will show is that you went into the shop and made a purchase. The one thing that will prove you made a payment to Oyster will be the receipt for the Oyster payment and the corresponding entry on Oyster monitoring records'

 

If a mistake has been made and your Oyster was not credited with the correct amount it should be relatively straightforward to identify. The receipt that you say you have should show the amount of the top-up and the time of that transaction.

 

The Oyster record will show whether any journey had been made after the top-up and before the incident with the inspector

 

This is the important piece of your original post:

 

 

Basically on the 13/04/2014. I went to my local shop known as Telfords in South/Dormers Wells Lane. To top up my Oyster card by £2. I only needed to make one journey to Ealing Broadway to see my boyfriend at work and I already had 40p on it. I bought a bottle of Ribena and paid by card the total was £4.28. The shop owner realized he charged a pound too much and gave a pound coin back. He only gave me the card payment recepit, but not the little one that shows you made the payment on the oyster. So I left.

 

 

It does appear from your quoted piece that you do not actually have any evidence that a payment was made to Oyster because you say that the shopkeeper did not give you any Oyster receipt.

 

Why did you leave without checking that your payment had been recorded? As always it is for the purchaser to check that they have been correctly charged at the time.

 

All your payment card receipt will show is that you made a purchase of the total amount of £4.28 in a shop. It will not specify what the payment was for.

 

From what you have posted so far TfL are unlikely to be 'bricking themselves' and if you have used similar rhetoric in your letter, you might find that they are less than likely to go out of their way to help you.

 

The inspector is not obliged to issue a penalty notice if s/he thinks that an offence is evident and if you used language that displayed a similar attitude as you have shown here I am not surprised that you were reported.

 

You need to politely ask if the timed Oyster till record at the shop can be checked for the top-up that you say you put on your card, but were not given a receipt for. Perhaps then it will be shown who made the mistake if any.

[wwwhvw]

Actually no. I would never use that "rhetoric" when writing a professional letter to a company. Since this is a thread, I thought it was ok to be more snarky or show my actual disdain about the situation or be more casual in my language. I didn't even use that "rhetoric" when the inspectors talked to me. I was actually obviously shaking at that time, since I was terrified they wouldn't believe what had happened, but they did, otherwise why would they have given an authority to travel pass and not kick me off. I'm actually very timid when I actually interact with people face to face. (Due to severe social anxiety).

 

I looked at CCTV, it shows me taking out my Oyster and putting it on the scanner thing to have money put on it and then putting it away when I was finished, the timing goes with how long it would take for me to get to the bus stop.

I just really don't appreciate what's happening to me. I made sure that I didn't come across as snarky in my letter, because I like to think I have common sense and want to be taken seriously.

[wwwhvw]

Also, if gets taken further anyway. Since the shop was happy to keep the footage of me and give a statement. It will hopefully not be a hassle to get the till records.

[wwwhvw]

But anyway, I'm sorry for the snark. Just..ugggh. I just really hate the situation I'm in.

[Old-CodJA]

Also, if gets taken further anyway. Since the shop was happy to keep the footage of me and give a statement. It will hopefully not be a hassle to get the till records.

 

 

Ok, that helps, but have you asked the shop why you were not given a receipt for the Oyster payment?

 

Sadly, the visual aspect of placing a card on the reader and taking it off again does not prove payment. For example, if someone placed a card on the machine and their payment card declined it would have exactly the same visual appearance, but no credit would go onto the card.

 

At the moment and only from what you have told us, this appears to be one of two possible errors. Either an error by the till operator at the shop, or a processing malfunction.

 

Before TfL proceed to further action they will have checked to see if there was a credit lodged on your card and if not, then there is an outstanding fare.

[rebel11]

Hi wwwhvw

 

Try not to worry, don't get stressed, it will effect your social anxiety. Let us know what they say. Keep all the relevant evidence safe.

[rebel11]

The OP told the following:-

 

'and that my Oyster card in question had not been topped up since Feb 2007'

It sounds like they haven't checked the correct Oyster Card.

 

 

Ok, that helps, but have you asked the shop why you were not given a receipt for the Oyster payment?

 

Sadly, the visual aspect of placing a card on the reader and taking it off again does not prove payment. For example, if someone placed a card on the machine and their payment card declined it would have exactly the same visual appearance, but no credit would go onto the card.

 

At the moment and only from what you have told us, this appears to be one of two possible errors. Either an error by the till operator at the shop, or a processing malfunction.

 

Before TfL proceed to further action they will have checked to see if there was a credit lodged on your card and if not, then there is an outstanding fare.

[wwwhvw]

That's what my boyfriend said to the guy on the phone as in "This can't be correct because she's been using it since so and so", when he was told about the Oyster hadn't been used since 2007. But the employee replied with a "Well the information we have is sketchy, but send in the statement anyway."

Edited April 22, 2014 by wwwhvw

[wwwhvw]

When I was in the shop reviewing the CCTV. I did say the shop owner that they didn't give me one as in the smaller recepit, when I was explaining to them my situation and they asked if I got given a recepit. They just kinda went "oh..well I'm sure they'll drop it, they usually do." But I'll ask for a till roll or to see their recepit records of my oyster transaction if the situation is taken further.

[rebel11]

Try to get a copy, pointless going to that length just to see it.

 

When I was in the shop reviewing the CCTV. I did say the shop owner that they didn't give me one as in the smaller recepit, when I was explaining to them my situation and they asked if I got given a recepit. They just kinda went "oh..well I'm sure they'll drop it, they usually do." But I'll ask for a till roll or to see their recepit records of my oyster transaction if the situation is taken further.