ESA submission

[John B/ham]

can i send this with my submission to the tribural, as i personaly know them, ??

thanks for any thoughts

[time4change2]

any supporting letters or evidence should be ok to send into them for the tribunal to look at from either professionals, family members or people who know the person

 

any new or worsened illnesses will not be looked at or considered though the tribunal can only go off how the person was when the original ESA decision was made

 

when i went to my sister tribunal for her mental health they would not entertain the fact that her conditions had worsened since she failed her medical they only wanted to know how her condition effected her from the date of her decision as far as i know that's still the same unless there has been a change to which i was not aware of.

 

is he not currently under his local CMHT?

Edited October 12, 2013 by time4change2

[Nystagmite]

when i went to my sister tribunal for her mental health they would not entertain the fact that her conditions had worsened since she failed her medical they only wanted to know how her condition effected her from the date of her decision as far as i know that's still the same unless there has been a change to which i was not aware of.

 

This is right. Tribunal is based on how you were at the time of your assessment and not now.

[John B/ham]

ok thanks for your reply,s

john

[John B/ham]

hiya people,

thx for advice already given , im afraid I need some more if anyone can help?

 

Firstly can I use a telephone bill as evidence in my submission, as it shows times I was txting , the atos report states I was in medical at that time, with the start time and finish time

Also in the report it states I was sitting down for 30 mins, but referring to the times of assessment, I was only in the room 34 mins, so with climbing on an off the the coutch, removing coat ect, all the other tests that's been suggested that was carried out in the assessment, 4 mins is not long enough can I make reference to this

Can I send in medical reports dating back 2002- 2008 to help prove my case,

 

thanks john

[mr_mastiff]

hiya people,

thx for advice already given , im afraid I need some more if anyone can help?

 

Firstly can I use a telephone bill as evidence in my submission, as it shows times I was txting , the atos report states I was in medical at that time, with the start time and finish time

Also in the report it states I was sitting down for 30 mins, but referring to the times of assessment, I was only in the room 34 mins, so with climbing on an off the the coutch, removing coat ect, all the other tests that's been suggested that was carried out in the assessment, 4 mins is not long enough can I make reference to this

Can I send in medical reports dating back 2002- 2008 to help prove my case,

 

 

 

thanks john

 

John in relation to to medical reports 2002-2008 do they concern conditions reported in your ESA50 and dealt with in your assessment. If the answer is yes they can be used but only if they relate to your condition at the time of assesment.

[John B/ham]

John in relation to to medical reports 2002-2008 do they concern conditions reported in your ESA50 and dealt with in your assessment. If the answer is yes they can be used but only if they relate to your condition at the time of assesment.

 

 

 

Thanks Mr mastiff for your reply, do you have any thoughts on the other things i asked?

John

[mr_mastiff]

 

 

 

Thanks Mr mastiff for your reply, do you have any thoughts on the other things i asked?

John

 

Hi John, I have no Legal training but I would include it and let the Judge make a ruling if it can be used as evidence or not. From my understanding if it is not submitted now it cannot be brought up at the hearing.

 

I hope someone with more experience than I can give you a more definitive answer.

[antone]

As Mr Mastiff says, you can include the phone bill, though probably best to attach a note to it explaining why it's there. In the end it will be up to the judge what can or can't be used as evidence, but if you don't submit it then there's no chance of the judge accepting it.

[John B/ham]

As Mr Mastiff says, you can include the phone bill, though probably best to attach a note to it explaining why it's there. In the end it will be up to the judge what can or can't be used as evidence, but if you don't submit it then there's no chance of the judge accepting it.

 

 

 

Ok thanks for the replies, i'll get print off's and send it in,

Thx john

[45002]

can i send this with my submission to the tribural, as i personaly know them, ??

thanks for any thoughts

Hello John

 

Can I ask is this appeal to do with your move from IB to ESA and getting nil points for ESA March of this year ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387951-Prescription-Problems

Edited October 16, 2013 by 45002

[estellyn]

Any evidence making the ATOS report appear unreliable is always good - as long as you have explained in the submission why it is included.

 

Just as important is explaining why you meet the descriptors, and giving real life examples to show this.

[John B/ham]

Hi 45002

yes its to use for my move from IB to ESA and getting nil points for ESA March of this year ?

[John B/ham]

Thanks esellyn,

im just trying to find out, if i can use anything other than medical evidence, to prove how unreliable the assesment report is,

do you think, i can send a map,from R A C route planner ? as i stated in the assesment, that the bus stop is only 2-3 from my home, but it can take me 10 or minutes to walk to it ,if i need to go doctors, but the report states i walk for 10 mins to the bus stop, so on the route planner map i typed in post code clicked on walk, and it gave me route and time it talks to walk it , which is 4 mins,

 

thanks john

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I think you need to tell them anything that proves conclusively that the Atos report is wrong. You need to go through it with a fine tooth comb, pick out all the inaccuracies an demonstrate why you disagree.

 

You also need to show the tribunal how you fit the DWP descriptors and why you deserve more points than you were awarded. I'll post a link to the forum stikky on appeals in a mo.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Here you go, in case it helps.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information

 

HB

[John B/ham]

thanks honeybee,

any help will be gladly recieved,as cant get it all to sink in at the mo,

john

[estellyn]

Thanks esellyn,

im just trying to find out, if i can use anything other than medical evidence, to prove how unreliable the assesment report is,

do you think, i can send a map,from R A C route planner ? as i stated in the assesment, that the bus stop is only 2-3 from my home, but it can take me 10 or minutes to walk to it ,if i need to go doctors, but the report states i walk for 10 mins to the bus stop, so on the route planner map i typed in post code clicked on walk, and it gave me route and time it talks to walk it , which is 4 mins,

 

thanks john

 

The amount of time is pretty irrelevant without the distance -does this distance relate to points for a descriptor?

[John B/ham]

The amount of time is pretty irrelevant without the distance -does this distance relate to points for a descriptor?

Ohh right got ya,

I dont no exactly 200-250 metres, about 7 lamp posts,

john

[John B/ham]

just looked on map, its 0.19 miles, i convert it and its 305.7 metres

[estellyn]

just looked on map, its 0.19 miles, i convert it and its 305.7 metres

 

OK, so you can walk at least 200 metres once, but can you do it repeatedly after a reasonable rest period. Is the time that it takes you to walk it reasonable? Would you be able to wheel yourself repeatedly that distance in a wheelchair?

 

What you need to highlight is the amount of distance you can mobilise REPEATEDLY and reliably. For instance, at a push on a really good day, I could walk the 200 metres - but that would be it for me, not only would I not be able to walk more than a few feet for the rest of day, I would barely be able to walk for quite a few days after. On the other hand with a good rest in between, I can walk 15-20 metres repeatedly (I can't use wheelchair without assistance), so this is what I would be arguing and trying to prove at a Tribunal - does this make sense?

 

Also important to know what you put on your ESA50? - Tribunals are very hot on consistency, and tend not to believe someone who is inconsistent between the ESA50 and Tribunal.

[John B/ham]

OK, so you can walk at least 200 metres once, but can you do it repeatedly after a reasonable rest period. Is the time that it takes you to walk it reasonable? Would you be able to wheel yourself repeatedly that distance in a wheelchair?

 

 

 

What you need to highlight is the amount of distance you can mobilise REPEATEDLY and reliably. For instance, at a push on a really good day, I could walk the 200 metres - but that would be it for me, not only would I not be able to walk more than a few feet for the rest of day, I would barely be able to walk for quite a few days after. On the other hand with a good rest in between, I can walk 15-20 metres repeatedly (I can't use wheelchair without assistance), so this is what I would be arguing and trying to prove at a Tribunal - does this make sense?

 

 

 

Also important to know what you put on your ESA50? - Tribunals are very hot on consistency, and tend not to believe someone who is inconsistent between the ESA50 and Tribunal.

 

 

 

Ok thanks , for that i think im getting a better understanding of whats needed ,

[mr_mastiff]

John, did you keep a copy of what you wrote in the ESA50, look at the ATOS assessment and pick out the points which do not match. Then match the medical evidence to the areas of contradiction. Look for areas were the ATOS assessment could place you in danger if it was excepted. For example have you ever had a fall whilst walking? Did the examiner ask you about what would happen if tried to walk the same distance again.

 

Very often Atos have been tripped up by the question they did not ask rather than the one they did.

[John B/ham]

Thanks Mr mastiff,

sorry for the late for the late reply, not ignoring anybody,imfinding it invaluble, even if its just going straight over my head, its just i haven't got internet, so i cant get on every day

[John B/ham]

yes i've got my copy of ESA50, but the problem is i didn't fill it in as complete as i should of,as my dad had just had a stroke an i completely forgot about filling it in if im honest, then i only had 4 days left to get it in, so rushed through it an posted it ,