Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Caution from FCC RPI - Baffling...


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3962 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi, I wonder if anyone can advise me...

 

Yesterday, on my journey to Farringdon, from St Albans City, I was asked to present my ticket to Revenue Protection Inspector.

 

I presented an unused carnet, and had only just finished writing the date on it in permanent marker. I normally do this before getting on the train, but was running very late.

 

My wife is about to accept medical retirement, so there's a lot of heavy stuff going on at home, and my brain was a little scrambled!

 

Unfortunately, the RPI informed me that he would be issuing a £22 penalty that I could pay immediately. I declined this offer,saying that I wanted to appeal the penalty fare instead.

 

The RPI then asked me for identification, so I provided my driver’s licence. He then proceeded to issue me with a caution, and warned me that anything I said would be used in court.

 

I'm baffled as I hadn't refused to pay the penalty fare, just that I would have liked to contest it. I thought that RPI's need to explain the appeals process?I understand that not writing the correct date does consitute a breach of carnet use, but I can't understand at what point I went from having a penalty fare to being issued a caution.

 

I was very subdued and polite throughout the whole encounter, but left not knowing what alleged offence I was being cautioned for, and what would happen next. I was not presented with any actual penalty notice, the RPI retained my ticket, and he asked me to sign a document without reading anything back to me.

 

Am I now facing a notice of prosecution? What advice would you offer as how to try and resolve this issue, I'm baffled! The last thing my family needs is their Dad banged up for not scribbling a date on his ticket!

Edited by honeybee13
Formatting.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope the rail experts will be along later with advice for you. Please bear with us until they're able to get here.

 

I've put a few paragraphs into your post to make it easier to read so you get the most advice. :)

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, prison is a very unlikely outcome for you, I don't think we've seen that happen to anyone from this forum for fare evasion.

 

We just need the experts who understand the carnet system to be here to advise you.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this on the FCC website about carnet tickets, in case it helps.

 

Carnet Terms and Conditions

 

 

 

  • Tickets are valid for 3 months from the start date on the ticket.
  • Passengers MUST validate the ticket by completing the travel date in permanent ink in the boxes on the top of the ticket in the direction of travel they wish to travel before commencing their journey.
  • Attempted fraudulent use will result in withdrawal of this ticket, payment of full fare for the journey being made and a possible criminal charge.
  • Only completely unused booklets of 5 or 10 Carnet tickets consecutively numbered will be considered for a refund
  • Lost or stolen individual tickets will not be replaced.
  • Peak tickets are valid at any time
  • Off-Peak tickets are valid at weekends and for journeys which arrive in London at or after 10.00 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted). Check with local station for time of the first Off-Peak service to London. Also valid for travel from London after 09.30 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted), but not valid for travel between 16.30 and 19.01 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted) where Evening Peak restrictions apply (see timetable for details).
  • Tickets to/from Cambridge are valid at any time
  • Carnet consists of 5 or 10 single train journeys tickets, which must used in the direction of travel printed on the ticket

*The individual ticket journey price is based the relevant 'Anytime Day Return' or 'Off-Peak Day Return' fare TO London or Cambridge being discounted by 10%.

 

HB

  • Confused 1

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

It appears that you only started to validate the carnet ticket when you saw the FCC Inspector. The terms of this product specifically state that it must be validated prior to travel commencing.

 

You therefore did not hold a valid ticket, contrary to Railway Byelaw 18.

 

A Penalty Fare is for instances where non-intentional fare avoidance is detected and is completely optional for both parties, (i.e. the Inspector/Passenger).

 

If the Inspector believes that the fare evasion was deliberate or otherwise suspicious, they are perfectly entitled to proceed straight to preparing a statement for prosecution.

 

You will receive a letter from FCC asking about the circumstances. If you have no previous history of fare problems, they will usually allow you to make a fairly significant payment to avoid being prosecuted.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still at a loss to know why a proposed penalty fare suddenly evolved into a caution...

 

As Firtsclass has said, the Penalty Fare is completely optional on the RPIs part and you can be reported, even if he believed it was not your intention to avoid payment (although such cases are usually dealt with by way of Penalty Fare, as a deterrent, as that's what they are there for after all!). It does seem that, from what you say here, the RPI wanted the money up-front, and not within 21-days as per the rules. He can't demand payment of the full Penalty amount up-front, but can request the ticket price for a standard rate ticket to the station he stopped you at, or the next station on that line if on a train. If it was merely because you wouldn't pay the full amount, this seems somewhat underhanded on his part. If he requested you pay for a single ticket, this is obviously more acceptable if you refused.

 

Unfortunately now, it's not a Penalty Fare matter, so you will have to await FCC's letter and play it by ear.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for shedding some light on the situation. I'm usually very conscientious when using carnets, and after an ordeal of a morning, I let my concentration slip. Hopefully, not having any previous record, I'll be given an opportunity to resolve things in good time. I'll update accordingly!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

***Update***As of yesterday, received a 'Travel Irregularity' letter, making refernce to an offence of 'entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel'. Then given an option of paying £61 to deal with the matter without court action. I called the Prosecutions Department and paid by card today.Glad the matter is resolved, but still completely none the wiser as to how a penalty fare of £22 escalated into a £61 payment to avoid court action.My advice is:>avoid using carnets - one forgetful moment can cost you!>offer to pay any penalty mentioned IMMEDIATELY, then appeal afterward.Thanks for the advice all, and good luck with your travels!

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...