Caution from FCC RPI - Baffling...

[skinlesscod]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can advise me...

 

Yesterday, on my journey to Farringdon, from St Albans City, I was asked to present my ticket to Revenue Protection Inspector.

 

I presented an unused carnet, and had only just finished writing the date on it in permanent marker. I normally do this before getting on the train, but was running very late.

 

My wife is about to accept medical retirement, so there's a lot of heavy stuff going on at home, and my brain was a little scrambled!

 

Unfortunately, the RPI informed me that he would be issuing a £22 penalty that I could pay immediately. I declined this offer,saying that I wanted to appeal the penalty fare instead.

 

The RPI then asked me for identification, so I provided my driver’s licence. He then proceeded to issue me with a caution, and warned me that anything I said would be used in court.

 

I'm baffled as I hadn't refused to pay the penalty fare, just that I would have liked to contest it. I thought that RPI's need to explain the appeals process?I understand that not writing the correct date does consitute a breach of carnet use, but I can't understand at what point I went from having a penalty fare to being issued a caution.

 

I was very subdued and polite throughout the whole encounter, but left not knowing what alleged offence I was being cautioned for, and what would happen next. I was not presented with any actual penalty notice, the RPI retained my ticket, and he asked me to sign a document without reading anything back to me.

 

Am I now facing a notice of prosecution? What advice would you offer as how to try and resolve this issue, I'm baffled! The last thing my family needs is their Dad banged up for not scribbling a date on his ticket!

Edited June 12, 2013 by honeybee13
Formatting.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I hope the rail experts will be along later with advice for you. Please bear with us until they're able to get here.

 

I've put a few paragraphs into your post to make it easier to read so you get the most advice.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

By the way, prison is a very unlikely outcome for you, I don't think we've seen that happen to anyone from this forum for fare evasion.

 

We just need the experts who understand the carnet system to be here to advise you.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

I found this on the FCC website about carnet tickets, in case it helps.

 

Carnet Terms and Conditions

 

 

 

• Tickets are valid for 3 months from the start date on the ticket.
  
• Passengers MUST validate the ticket by completing the travel date in permanent ink in the boxes on the top of the ticket in the direction of travel they wish to travel before commencing their journey.
  
• Attempted fraudulent use will result in withdrawal of this ticket, payment of full fare for the journey being made and a possible criminal charge.
  
• Only completely unused booklets of 5 or 10 Carnet tickets consecutively numbered will be considered for a refund
  
• Lost or stolen individual tickets will not be replaced.
  
• Peak tickets are valid at any time
  
• Off-Peak tickets are valid at weekends and for journeys which arrive in London at or after 10.00 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted). Check with local station for time of the first Off-Peak service to London. Also valid for travel from London after 09.30 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted), but not valid for travel between 16.30 and 19.01 Monday to Friday (Public Holidays excepted) where Evening Peak restrictions apply (see timetable for details).
  
• Tickets to/from Cambridge are valid at any time
  
• Carnet consists of 5 or 10 single train journeys tickets, which must used in the direction of travel printed on the ticket
  

*The individual ticket journey price is based the relevant 'Anytime Day Return' or 'Off-Peak Day Return' fare TO London or Cambridge being discounted by 10%.

 

HB

[skinlesscod]

Thanks HB - looking over the T'S and C's of carnet use, I notice that I wasn't asked to pay a full fare either. I continue to be stumped!

[firstclassx]

It appears that you only started to validate the carnet ticket when you saw the FCC Inspector. The terms of this product specifically state that it must be validated prior to travel commencing.

 

You therefore did not hold a valid ticket, contrary to Railway Byelaw 18.

 

A Penalty Fare is for instances where non-intentional fare avoidance is detected and is completely optional for both parties, (i.e. the Inspector/Passenger).

 

If the Inspector believes that the fare evasion was deliberate or otherwise suspicious, they are perfectly entitled to proceed straight to preparing a statement for prosecution.

 

You will receive a letter from FCC asking about the circumstances. If you have no previous history of fare problems, they will usually allow you to make a fairly significant payment to avoid being prosecuted.

[skinlesscod]

I'm still at a loss to know why a proposed penalty fare suddenly evolved into a caution...

[firstclassx]

I'm still at a loss to know why a proposed penalty fare suddenly evolved into a caution...

 

Could be your demeanor/body language, your responses, perceived attitude etc.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't really matter.

[Stigy]

I'm still at a loss to know why a proposed penalty fare suddenly evolved into a caution...

 

As Firtsclass has said, the Penalty Fare is completely optional on the RPIs part and you can be reported, even if he believed it was not your intention to avoid payment (although such cases are usually dealt with by way of Penalty Fare, as a deterrent, as that's what they are there for after all!). It does seem that, from what you say here, the RPI wanted the money up-front, and not within 21-days as per the rules. He can't demand payment of the full Penalty amount up-front, but can request the ticket price for a standard rate ticket to the station he stopped you at, or the next station on that line if on a train. If it was merely because you wouldn't pay the full amount, this seems somewhat underhanded on his part. If he requested you pay for a single ticket, this is obviously more acceptable if you refused.

 

Unfortunately now, it's not a Penalty Fare matter, so you will have to await FCC's letter and play it by ear.

[skinlesscod]

Thanks for shedding some light on the situation. I'm usually very conscientious when using carnets, and after an ordeal of a morning, I let my concentration slip. Hopefully, not having any previous record, I'll be given an opportunity to resolve things in good time. I'll update accordingly!

[skinlesscod]

***Update***As of yesterday, received a 'Travel Irregularity' letter, making refernce to an offence of 'entering a train for the purpose of travelling without a ticket entitling travel'. Then given an option of paying £61 to deal with the matter without court action. I called the Prosecutions Department and paid by card today.Glad the matter is resolved, but still completely none the wiser as to how a penalty fare of £22 escalated into a £61 payment to avoid court action.My advice is:>avoid using carnets - one forgetful moment can cost you!>offer to pay any penalty mentioned IMMEDIATELY, then appeal afterward.Thanks for the advice all, and good luck with your travels!