Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

[sequenci]

The lender's solicitors have stated it.

[applecart]

an update for you Is It Me and Apple

 

Guess what I received today a letter from lenders solicitors saying they will be happy to stay my repo until chamber has done test cases and the outcome is known, only long as I pay them my monthly mortgage plus £200 extra off the arrears. How strange I offered them and have been paying £200 extra for the last 5 months to them and they have rejected this offer 4 times previously. I paid this even vefore they started repo again. In the letter they suggest that the Propwrety Chamber will strike my claim out as they have done this someone else already as its abuse of the process.

 

Hi Alisono

 

That's interesting.....considering it is them that the Judge has minded of his intent to stay the proceedings without requiring you to pay them anything at all.....

 

Do not reply to them.....they are trying to get an order of possession against your property.....suspended on terms....so that they can write back to the Chamber... to say...oooohhh look...the Judge granted us possession....

 

This is there way of trying to cause your application at the Chamber to be 'struck out' on the misguided premise that the 'matter has been determined' by the DJ in the lower court.....this would then enable the Chamber to consider your application 'an abuse of process' on that ground.....so, be very careful.

 

You would end up having to seek permission to bring the application....which is a farce, because it is already there...but it's a means of the Solicitors looking to get through the back door to deny you your rights.....don't fall for it....stay strong, stay focused....stay calm .....

 

These are my immediate thoughts.....I may yet come back to you in due course ok?

 

Apple

[alisono]

Good Evening

 

Guess what I received today a letter from solicitors saying they will be happy to stay my repo until chamber has done test cases and the outcome is known, only long as I pay them my monthly mortgage plus £200 extra off the arrears. How strange I offered and have been paying £200 extra for the last 5 months to them and they have rejected this offer 4 times previously. I was paying the extra even before they started proceesings.

I was also intstructed to serves the PW&C address for SPML by the Chamber and I did this also both by post and fax. When I spoke to the lady who got the fax a litigation Solicitor she said thank you but would not accept being served, she would only put in the SPML box as they only registered at the address and there were not staff for SPML left only 1 director.

[TimetogoRAM]

The lender's solicitors have stated it.

 

Ha sorry long day, just read again. Tell them to take a hike Alisono!

[alisono]

Hi, I had some arrears that I have disputed with them for over 3 years now , they addd £2,000 to my account in 2008 it clearly shows my payments and also what should of been paid monthly it was spot on in fact it looked like I'd overpaid, they then added alot of charges I thought this was a mistake and raised this. They are now saying to me it's not so I have arrears so they then started charging fees extra some £4,000 in charges over 4 years,they are now saying as Acenden they didnt have my account till 2009/10 so have no receords on this and I have a complaint letter for each year so I wil show the DJ these also.

[applecart]

Good Evening

 

Guess what I received today a letter from solicitors saying they will be happy to stay my repo until chamber has done test cases and the outcome is known, only long as I pay them my monthly mortgage plus £200 extra off the arrears. How strange I offered and have been paying £200 extra for the last 5 months to them and they have rejected this offer 4 times previously. I was paying the extra even before they started proceesings.

I was also intstructed to serves the PW&C address for SPML by the Chamber and I did this also both by post and fax. When I spoke to the lady who got the fax a litigation Solicitor she said thank you but would not accept being served, she would only put in the SPML box as they only registered at the address and there were not staff for SPML left only 1 director.

 

I' not surprised to learn this - a registered address is just that.....'registered'....It would be interesting to find out if SPML have popped in to collect the post from their 'registered' address recently....remember, they reckoned at the last hearing that they did not get the application...uuuummm.....

 

They must have it now...because you told the Judge you sent it to them...they dashed over and got it....hence the fast track letter from their solicitors to the Chamber.....how much time do they have left to 'respond' to the application?.....if I were them, I'd get my skates on......tie is running out for them.....

 

It is appropriate to remember.....you are following the only process you know......the validity of the deed is fundamental to their 'claim' and your 'defence'......unless the application goes ahead....it would be unfair for the Judge to make an order for possession ....... he simply must 'stay' the proceedings.... it is the only way that both parties can be sure that the claim is decided on the merits......

 

For you to agree to their 'offer'...will see an order by consent put in place....you don't want that.....you have rights too.....

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hi, I had some arrears that I have disputed with them for over 3 years now , they addd £2,000 to my account in 2008 it clearly shows my payments and also what should of been paid monthly it was spot on in fact it looked like I'd overpaid, they then added alot of charges I thought this was a mistake and raised this. They are now saying to me it's not so I have arrears so they then started charging fees extra some £4,000 in charges over 4 years,they are now saying as Acenden they didnt have my account till 2009/10 so have no receords on this and I have a complaint letter for each year so I wil show the DJ these also.

 

This again is 'typical'.....they create 'charges' ... they create 'arrears'....so that they can get an 'order for possession'.....the 'order for possession'...gives them the 'leveridge' they need to 'call' for the sale of as many properties as they need to sell them at any given time....in order to raise the money to service the underlying investors and tranches....me thinks

 

Shocking, shocking I tell you..... especially when they never executed the deed!!! : (

 

Apple

[applecart]

Ha sorry long day, just read again. Tell them to take a hike Alisono!

 

Lets hope the Judge finds the most appropriate..diplomatic way of telling them to....lol

 

Apple

[TimetogoRAM]

Lets hope the Judge finds the most appropriate..diplomatic way of telling them to....lol

 

Apple

 

That was an diplomatic as I could be without swearing! Lol. Makes ya blood boil!

[alisono]

Lets hope the Judge finds the most appropriate..diplomatic way of telling them to....lol

 

Apple

Hi Apple,

 

I have already been paying this without agreeing to it as they kept rejecting my offer before all this started. I not reply to them, I just sent a copy of the letter I sent to court today which was all the copies of their letters and the copy of the property chamber I got yesterday.

 

Quick question :- on the repo hearing documentation it says :

that Southern Pacific Mortgage Ltd t/as London Mortgage Company anf it has the registered address on all the paperwork of Acendens address in High Wycombe. (they were registered there 12 months ago) So it is not the address on my mortage deed or even the registered address they have at companies house

Should I mention this?

[applecart]

Just watching 'Britain on the Fiddle'.....back in a bit

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hi Apple,

 

I have already been paying this without agreeing to it as they kept rejecting my offer before all this started. I not reply to them, I just sent a copy of the letter I sent to court today which was all the copies of their letters and the copy of the property chamber I got yesterday.

 

Quick question :- on the repo hearing documentation it says :

that Southern Pacific Mortgage Ltd t/as London Mortgage Company anf it has the registered address on all the paperwork of Acendens address in High Wycombe. (they were registered there 12 months ago) So it is not the address on my mortage deed or even the registered address they have at companies house

Should I mention this?

 

Most definitely...at the 'registered address' you have conflicting information....PWC say they are the 'registered address'......the repo hearing quotes Accendens 'registered address'....and the most relevant document...being the address for 'notice' held at HMLR....the 'approved form of charge'.......has been evidenced by Royal Mail (a totally independent party) is marked as 'gone away'......

 

Apple

[applecart]

That was an diplomatic as I could be without swearing! Lol. Makes ya blood boil!

 

Thing is ...... all the ducking and diving should not be 'ratified' by attempts to circumvent the law.....we know what they have been up to... we know why the deed is left un-executed........ it is terrible and needs sorting.....

 

We have yet to see what the Chamber is going to do about this..... in the meantime have a look at the draft e-petition i posted up.....we need to get the ball rolling on that asap...

 

Apple

[alisono]

Ok and sorry this maybe going off piste but can you cast your eye over this please :

Sorry more questions and a bit of reading :

Sale of Loans

The Loans and the Collateral Security comprised in the Initial Mortgage Pool will be sold on the Closing Date by the Sellers to the Issuer. Substitute Loans, Ported Loans, Prefunded Loans and Newly-Originated Loans may be acquired by the Issuer from a Seller after the Closing Date, in each case in accordance with the terms of the Mortgage Sale Agreement. The sale of the Loans and their related Collateral Security to the Issuer will take effect in equity only or, in the case of Scottish Loans, by means of declarations of trust by PML and SPML, in each case, as Legal Titleholder of the relevant Scottish Loans, in favour of the Issuer (such declarations of trust,

together with any declaration of trust supplemental thereto, the “Scottish Trusts”), until such time as transfers and assignations of such Loans and the related Collateral Security in favour of the Issuer have been completed and, in respect of the registered or registerable titles to land, registered or recorded at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or the Registers of Scotland (in the circumstance mentioned below) and notice has been served on the Borrowers. The sale of the relevant Seller’s interest in the Life Policies, if any, (as defined in “Life Policies” below) will take effect in equity only (or, as the case may be,

by means of the Scottish Trusts). The Issuer will grant a first fixed equitable charge in favour of the Trustee over its interest in the Loans and the Collateral Security (or in the case of Scottish Loans, a first fixed security over its interest under the Scottish Trusts). The Mortgage Administrator will be required under the terms of the Mortgage Administration Agreement to ensure the safe custody of title deeds in respect of the Loans and the Collateral Security as agent of the Issuer and the Trustee. The Mortgage Administrator has arranged for the title deeds relating to the Loans, which it does have to be held by Iron Mountain (UK) Ltd, File and Data Storage Limited (each a “Title Deeds Holder”). Under the terms of the Mortgage Administration Agreement, the Mortgage Administrator will be obliged to notify each Title Deeds Holder to hold the title deeds in respect of the Loans and the related Collateral Security to the order of the Trustee. Neither the Issuer nor the Trustee currently intend to effect any registration at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or any registration or recording in the Registers of Scotland to perfect the sale of the Loans and the Collateral Security to the Issuer or the charge of them by the Issuer in favour of the Trustee nor, save as mentioned below, do they intendto effect any registration at the Land Registry of England and

Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or any registration or recording in the Registers of Scotland to perfect

the sale of the Loans and the Collateral Security to the Issuer or the charge of them by the Issuer in favour of the

Trustee nor, save as mentioned below, do they intend to obtain possession of the title deeds to the Properties and

the Loans and their related Collateral Security.

Save as mentioned below, notice of the assignment to the Issuer of the Loans and Collateral Security and their

subsequent charging or assigning to the Trustee will not be given to the Borrowers.

Under the Mortgage Sale Agreement and the Deed of Charge, each of the Issuer (with the consent of the

Trustee) and the Trustee will be entitled to effect such registrations and recordings and give such notices as it,

acting in its absolute discretion, considers necessary to protect and perfect the interests respectively of the Issuer

(as purchaser) and the Trustee (as chargee) in the Loans and the Collateral Security, inter alia, where (a) it is

obliged to do so by law, by court order or by a mandatory requirement of any regulatory authority, (b) an

Enforcement Notice (as defined in Condition 9(a) (Events of Default)) has been given, © the Trustee considers

that the Charged Property (as defined in the Deed of Charge) or any part thereof is in jeopardy (including due to

the possible insolvency of SPML or PML in each case as Legal Titleholder of the relevant Loans) or (d) any

action is taken for the winding-up, dissolution, administration or reorganisation of SPML or PML. These rights

are supported by irrevocable powers of attorney given by, among others, the Issuer, SPML and PML.

The effect of (i) not giving notice to the Borrowers of the sale of the relevant Loans and their Collateral Security

to the Issuer and the charging of the Issuer’s interest in the Loans and their Collateral Security to the Trustee and

(ii) the charge of the Issuer’s rights thereto in favour of the Trustee pursuant to the Deed of Charge taking effect

in equity (or extending over the Issuer’s beneficial interest) only, is that the rights of the Issuer and the Trustee

may be, or may become, subject to equities as well as to the interests of third parties who perfect a legal interest

prior to the Issuer or the Trustee acquiring and perfecting a legal interest (such as, in the case of English

Mortgages or Northern Irish Mortgages over unregistered land, a third party acquiring a legal interest in the

relevant Mortgage without notice of the Issuer’s or the Trustee’s interests or, in the case of Mortgages over

92

registered land or any land in Scotland (whether at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of

Northern Ireland or the Registers of Scotland), a third party acquiring a legal interest by registration or recording

prior to the registration or recording of the Issuer’s or the Trustee’s interests).

Until the legal interest of the Issuer or, as the case may be, the Trustee, has been perfected, the Issuer, or as the

case may be, the Trustee may also need to join the relevant Legal Titleholder in any legal proceedings taken

against the relevant Borrower. The Borrower is also entitled to set-off (or exercise any analogous rights in

Scotland) any amounts owing to the relevant Legal Titleholder in respect of such Loan against any other amount

owed by the relevant Legal Titleholder to such Borrower.

The risk of such equitable and other interests leading to third party claims obtaining priority to the interests of

the Issuer or the Trustee in the Loans and the Collateral Security is likely to be limited to circumstances arising

from a breach by the relevant Legal Titleholder or the Issuer of its or their contractual or other obligations or

fraud or mistake on the part of the relevant Legal Titleholder or the Issuer or their respective officers, employeesor agents (if any).

[IS IT ME?]

They awe trying it on, if they do go to court you need to show the judge these so called arrears and put them on notice as to you claiming they are added to the account and that you have asked them where they come from and the reply you had, which is nothing.

I advise is your application is before the chamber which the solicitors are fully aware of and I would wait until the out come of the hearing.

You could write and inform the solicitors that you will pay the funds so calmed into an account which will be released when the out come is known.

[IS IT ME?]

I would ask why they would need the deeds then? As they have no rights to them?

[applecart]

Ok and sorry this maybe going off piste but can you cast your eye over this please :

Sorry more questions and a bit of reading :

Sale of Loans

The Loans and the Collateral Security comprised in the Initial Mortgage Pool will be sold on the Closing Date by the Sellers to the Issuer. Substitute Loans, Ported Loans, Prefunded Loans and Newly-Originated Loans may be acquired by the Issuer from a Seller after the Closing Date, in each case in accordance with the terms of the Mortgage Sale Agreement. The sale of the Loans and their related Collateral Security to the Issuer will take effect in equity only or, in the case of Scottish Loans, by means of declarations of trust by PML and SPML, in each case, as Legal Titleholder of the relevant Scottish Loans, in favour of the Issuer (such declarations of trust,

together with any declaration of trust supplemental thereto, the “Scottish Trusts”), until such time as transfers and assignations of such Loans and the related Collateral Security in favour of the Issuer have been completed and, in respect of the registered or registerable titles to land, registered or recorded at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or the Registers of Scotland (in the circumstance mentioned below) and notice has been served on the Borrowers. The sale of the relevant Seller’s interest in the Life Policies, if any, (as defined in “Life Policies” below) will take effect in equity only (or, as the case may be,

by means of the Scottish Trusts). The Issuer will grant a first fixed equitable charge in favour of the Trustee over its interest in the Loans and the Collateral Security (or in the case of Scottish Loans, a first fixed security over its interest under the Scottish Trusts). The Mortgage Administrator will be required under the terms of the Mortgage Administration Agreement to ensure the safe custody of title deeds in respect of the Loans and the Collateral Security as agent of the Issuer and the Trustee. The Mortgage Administrator has arranged for the title deeds relating to the Loans, which it does have to be held by Iron Mountain (UK) Ltd, File and Data Storage Limited (each a “Title Deeds Holder”). Under the terms of the Mortgage Administration Agreement, the Mortgage Administrator will be obliged to notify each Title Deeds Holder to hold the title deeds in respect of the Loans and the related Collateral Security to the order of the Trustee. Neither the Issuer nor the Trustee currently intend to effect any registration at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or any registration or recording in the Registers of Scotland to perfect the sale of the Loans and the Collateral Security to the Issuer or the charge of them by the Issuer in favour of the Trustee nor, save as mentioned below, do they intendto effect any registration at the Land Registry of England and

Wales, the Registers of Northern Ireland or any registration or recording in the Registers of Scotland to perfect

the sale of the Loans and the Collateral Security to the Issuer or the charge of them by the Issuer in favour of the

Trustee nor, save as mentioned below, do they intend to obtain possession of the title deeds to the Properties and

the Loans and their related Collateral Security.

Save as mentioned below, notice of the assignment to the Issuer of the Loans and Collateral Security and their

subsequent charging or assigning to the Trustee will not be given to the Borrowers.

Under the Mortgage Sale Agreement and the Deed of Charge, each of the Issuer (with the consent of the

Trustee) and the Trustee will be entitled to effect such registrations and recordings and give such notices as it,

acting in its absolute discretion, considers necessary to protect and perfect the interests respectively of the Issuer

(as purchaser) and the Trustee (as chargee) in the Loans and the Collateral Security, inter alia, where (a) it is

obliged to do so by law, by court order or by a mandatory requirement of any regulatory authority, (b) an

Enforcement Notice (as defined in Condition 9(a) (Events of Default)) has been given, © the Trustee considers

that the Charged Property (as defined in the Deed of Charge) or any part thereof is in jeopardy (including due to

the possible insolvency of SPML or PML in each case as Legal Titleholder of the relevant Loans) or (d) any

action is taken for the winding-up, dissolution, administration or reorganisation of SPML or PML. These rights

are supported by irrevocable powers of attorney given by, among others, the Issuer, SPML and PML.

The effect of (i) not giving notice to the Borrowers of the sale of the relevant Loans and their Collateral Security

to the Issuer and the charging of the Issuer’s interest in the Loans and their Collateral Security to the Trustee and

(ii) the charge of the Issuer’s rights thereto in favour of the Trustee pursuant to the Deed of Charge taking effect

in equity (or extending over the Issuer’s beneficial interest) only, is that the rights of the Issuer and the Trustee

may be, or may become, subject to equities as well as to the interests of third parties who perfect a legal interest

prior to the Issuer or the Trustee acquiring and perfecting a legal interest (such as, in the case of English

Mortgages or Northern Irish Mortgages over unregistered land, a third party acquiring a legal interest in the

relevant Mortgage without notice of the Issuer’s or the Trustee’s interests or, in the case of Mortgages over

92

registered land or any land in Scotland (whether at the Land Registry of England and Wales, the Registers of

Northern Ireland or the Registers of Scotland), a third party acquiring a legal interest by registration or recording

prior to the registration or recording of the Issuer’s or the Trustee’s interests).

Until the legal interest of the Issuer or, as the case may be, the Trustee, has been perfected, the Issuer, or as the

case may be, the Trustee may also need to join the relevant Legal Titleholder in any legal proceedings taken

against the relevant Borrower. The Borrower is also entitled to set-off (or exercise any analogous rights in

Scotland) any amounts owing to the relevant Legal Titleholder in respect of such Loan against any other amount

owed by the relevant Legal Titleholder to such Borrower.

The risk of such equitable and other interests leading to third party claims obtaining priority to the interests of

the Issuer or the Trustee in the Loans and the Collateral Security is likely to be limited to circumstances arising

from a breach by the relevant Legal Titleholder or the Issuer of its or their contractual or other obligations or

fraud or mistake on the part of the relevant Legal Titleholder or the Issuer or their respective officers, employeesor agents (if any).

 

Where or what is 'the question'?

 

Apple

[applecart]

They awe trying it on, if they do go to court you need to show the judge these so called arrears and put them on notice as to you claiming they are added to the account and that you have asked them where they come from and the reply you had, which is nothing.

I advise is your application is before the chamber which the solicitors are fully aware of and I would wait until the out come of the hearing.

You could write and inform the solicitors that you will pay the funds so calmed into an account which will be released when the out come is known.

 

I would probably reserve any suggestions of any payments until the hearing...... if you agree anything upfront...it is the same as 'consenting' to an order being granted.....we are not about that here......we want fair justice....fair is ..... allowing Allisono's application to proceed ........without and before any judge is made to feel obliged to order anything 'said' to be 'agreed' between the parties.....

 

Apple

[applecart]

I would ask why they would need the deeds then? As they have no rights to them?

 

We are not 'interested' why they need the un-executed deed.....we already know.....we are defending the relationship between Original Lender and borrower....the deed is void...that's our focus here....

 

we 'question' only out of a latent interest.... no more than that.....

 

Let's stay focused.....

 

Now...about the e-petition?......any comments??

 

Apple

[ims21]

 

Now...about the e-petition?......any comments??

 

Apple

 

When you get the e-petition up and running, don't forget to link to it in the e-petitions forum here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?357-e-Petitions

[IS IT ME?]

Apple

Yes sorry forgot to say not to them but to the court if needed.

I agree with the format of the petition as is but think some thing should be in about the groverment doing some thing about this, as surely when the rates go up so will the repos

[p.j]

Here is a 'draft' e-petition.....can we all critic constructively and discuss any amendments before I post it up on-line please : )

 

"This e-petition concerns the growing public interest and concern to do with the practice of mortgage securitisation which involves the origination and pooling of mortgages of registered estates in the UK.

 

It has come to light that an absolute proprietor of any registered estate has no statutory power to grant a mortgage to the favour of any lender.

 

Since the coming into force of the LRA 1925 section 25, there has been no statutory provision upon which a lender can rely to mortgage a registered estate of an Absolute Proprietor.

 

More recently, the LRA 2002 section 23 provides that there is no power whereby any Absolute Proprietor of a registered estate has power to lawfully grant a mortgage by demise or sub-demise.

 

The practice of mortgage securitisation requires that the deed is signed only by the Absolute Proprietor of the registered estate; the Lender does not execute the deed and we are finding that Lenders are reliant on section 53 of the LPA 1925 to take possession of Borrowers homes. When it is becoming abundantly clear that a deed that only meets the provisions of the LPA 1925 s.53 has not been assumed by the Lender does not meet the formalities necessary for delivery of the deed.

 

The Law in relation to transactions intending to secure any indebtedness by way of a registered estate is not intended to be impeached by circumvention of the Laws of the UK.

 

This e-petition requires that the Attorney General consider these issues and act in the public interest to protect the citizens of the UK who suffer detriment to families and children when their homes are repossessed in the UK each day to benefit the certain activities of both sub-prime and main stream Banks in the UK against the protections of the applicable Law in relation to registered estates and the further protections implemented more recently by the Regulatory Reform (Execution of Deeds and Documents) Order 2005 ."

 

 

Apple

 

Hi Apple yes i am all for getting it going its to the point am sure there will be plenty of signatures to go on.

 

 

 

pj

[p.j]

Apple

Yes sorry forgot to say not to them but to the court if needed.

I agree with the format of the petition as is but think some thing should be in about the groverment doing some thing about this, as surely when the rates go up so will the repos

 

yes and to the courts too.

 

pj

[Winged Piglet]

Here is a 'draft' e-petition.....can we all critic constructively and discuss any amendments before I post it up on-line please : )

 

"This e-petition concerns the growing public interest and concern to do with the practice of mortgage securitisation which involves the origination and pooling of mortgages of registered estates in the UK.

 

It has come to light that an absolute proprietor of any registered estate has no statutory power to grant a mortgage to the favour of any lender.

 

Since the coming into force of the LRA 1925 section 25, there has been no statutory provision upon which a lender can rely to mortgage a registered estate of an Absolute Proprietor.

 

More recently, the LRA 2002 section 23 provides that there is no power whereby any Absolute Proprietor of a registered estate has power to lawfully grant a mortgage by demise or sub-demise.

 

The practice of mortgage securitisation requires that the deed is signed only by the Absolute Proprietor of the registered estate; the Lender does not execute the deed and we are finding that Lenders are reliant on section 53 of the LPA 1925 to take possession of Borrowers homes. When it is becoming abundantly clear that a deed that only meets the provisions of the LPA 1925 s.53 has not been assumed by the Lender does not meet the formalities necessary for delivery of the deed.

 

The Law in relation to transactions intending to secure any indebtedness by way of a registered estate is not intended to be impeached by circumvention of the Laws of the UK.

 

This e-petition requires that the Attorney General consider these issues and act in the public interest to protect the citizens of the UK who suffer detriment to families and children when their homes are repossessed in the UK each day to benefit the certain activities of both sub-prime and main stream Banks in the UK against the protections of the applicable Law in relation to registered estates and the further protections implemented more recently by the Regulatory Reform (Execution of Deeds and Documents) Order 2005 ."

 

 

Apple

 

Hi Apple,

 

Excellent idea Apple! need 100,000 signatures and we could get a debate in the House of Commons broadcast on Parliament TV now that would be interesting ;-)

 

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/backbench-business-committee/e-petitions-/

 

Now with over 90,000 views it's completely doable!

 

If we get 99,999 do ya think Ben would oblige ;-)

 

WP

[caro]

Views is not the same as viewers wp.