Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

[applecart]

Here's the link to 'HILMI'

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2010/314.html

 

Apple

[applecart]

Here's a link to the Law Commission Report 143:

 

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/cp143_Execution_of_Deeds_and_Documents_Consultation.pdf

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

Hi UNRAM

 

You may re-call that I referred you to the case of "HILMI".......that is where I have been able to source the information....

 

See.....The Law Commissions Consultation Paper on the Execution of Deeds and Documents by or on behalf of Bodies Corporate, Consultation Paper 143 (1996), para 2.2 and 2.3

 

It was referred to by the Judge in deciding the case in HILMI & Associates Ltd v 20 PEMBRIDGE VILLAS FREEHOLD LIMITED [2010] EWCA Civ 314 at para 29

 

Hope this helps?

 

Apple

 

Are there any other court cases to reinforce the principle? Surely this issue came up before 2010?

[applecart]

Are there any other court cases to reinforce the principle? Surely this issue came up before 2010?

 

Hi UNRAM

 

I'm sure there will be and it will have done....but for present purposes....I believe 'HILMI' will suffice.....

 

There is no need to bombard the Lender and the courts with every single piece of case law that you can get your hands on......

 

The Chamber already are considering 'Gargillo' and 'Bibby'.....and reference to the RRO.....

 

The combined effect of the three should make a difference to the outcome for all Borrowers.....

 

Apple

[applecart]

....Just to follow on......it is not the finding that the HILMI Case was not decided until 2010 that is significant per se..... the significance in that case is that in 2010 the Judge relied on the report of the Law commission that was way before 2010.....

 

So.....the principle is the principle regardless of when one needs to rely on it....

 

Apple

[applecart]

I have to pop off the forum for now.......due to other commitments.....but, do post any queries as usual.... I will pick up on them anyway : )

 

Apple

[UNRAM]

The Law Commissions Consultation Paper on the Execution of Deeds and Documents by or on behalf of Bodies Corporate, Consultation Paper 143 (1996)

http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...nsultation.pdf

 

2.2 The law of England and Wales makes an important distinction between instruments which are executed in “solemn form” as deeds, and other instruments which are generally referred to as being in “simple form” under hand.1 Where the instrument is a contract, this is recognised by the distinction made between a contract executed as a deed, which is a specialty, and an instrument under hand, which is a simple contract.

 

2.5 It will be seen that at common law, all deeds were documents under seal.6 Hence contracts executed in solemn form were and are still commonly referred to as “contracts under seal”.

 

11.6 [section omitted] A deed is an instrument in solemn form. Such an instrument (or, depending on how the term “specialty” is used, any obligation contained in it) is a specialty because it is in solemn form.[section omitted] A contract which is executed by an individual as a deed (that is by attested signature), and which makes it clear on its face that it is intended to be a deed, will therefore be both a deed and a specialty.

Edited October 5, 2013 by UNRAM

[UNRAM]

http://lawcommission.justice.gov .uk/...nsultation.pdf

 

What is required for delivery?

 

6.2 Originally, delivery was the physical act of handing the deed over to the other party, or instructing him to take it up, but the matter is now essentially a question of the intention of the maker of the deed. A deed is delivered in law “as soon as there are acts or words sufficient to [show] that it is intended by the party to be executed as his deed presently binding on him”, and even though that party retains possession of the document.1 It does not matter whether this intention is actually communicated to the other party, so long as it is shown by some sufficient act or words.

 

The mortgage deed I signed only says "signed as a deed" not "executed as a deed"... I've checked T&C's... Nothing anywhere about intention to execute a deed.

[IS IT ME?]

God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

[UNRAM]

God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

 

Im happy to set up a google docs or similar facility and we can share the passcode through CAG if document sharing is going to become an obstacle...

[p.j]

God Apple having time off as WELL as tea! what next LOL

 

I agree fully with your posts 1567 and 1573 when you hand documents in get them to stamp them and at NO time just leave them there, as in our case the WHOLE file went missing for two months!

I also agree that posters SHOULD be able to do PM for their defence papers BEFORE going to court with them so any problems could be dealt with, as you and I knew there are more solicitors , there staff and all and sundry looking at these threads now and for us to go this far with this is some thing no one not even me thought off.

Al, then you had in your papers you will not get a hearing date there and then they will give it to the judge to look at and he or she could just give an order to adjured until six months or what ever, but if not don't worry I'll come along, just let me know.

Do you know who the agent was for the other side?

 

hi is it me i agree with you on the pm to many eyes now looking i could do with your help to i have never been to court for this kind of situtation..i handed my first lot of papers in they wouldn't stamp them as received they just said your on camera handing the envelope over so when i hand in my defence this week i will double check the judge got them i will carry another copy just incase.

 

pj

[IS IT ME?]

PJ,

 

No that's not right, if you hand them in and ask for your copy's to be stamped they HAVE to do it.

No prob with help where are you ?

[UNRAM]

hello CAG whats the policy regarding allowing people to share information privately. is CAG against this?

[p.j]

PJ,

 

No that's not right, if you hand them in and ask for your copy's to be stamped they HAVE to do it.

No prob with help where are you ?

 

hi is it me thanks thats good to know i am in nottingham.i did insist on them stamping them and giving me a receipt of hand delivery they just kept on saying your on camera theres your proof.

 

pj.

[IS IT ME?]

Ok PJ

Wait for the court to send you a date back.

[ims21]

hello CAG whats the policy regarding allowing people to share information privately. is CAG against this?

 

Why can you not post documents on the open forum?

 

One major point is that you never know who you are dealing with off forum despite what they may appear to be on the open forum.

[UNRAM]

One major point is that you never know who you are dealing with off forum despite what they may appear to be on the open forum.

What does this mean please?

[IS IT ME?]

I hope you are NOT meaning me???

[ims21]

It didn't refer to anyone.

 

With an anonymous forum you never know who anybody is.

[UNRAM]

It didn't refer to anyone.

With an anonymous forum you never know who anybody is.

 

Unless my name birth name is UNRAM (pretty as it might be its not) then that's what this is and that not topic of discussion which is private messaging on public forums.

[p.j]

got my letter back from the tribunal and its good to go they have excepted the case and given me documents to serve on the lender.

 

its says send a copy of my application plus a copy of the order to them and the court.

 

am off to sort it asap.

 

p.j

[IS IT ME?]

PJ

Thats good news yes HAND the copy in to the court with a letter just asking if the matter could be adjourned until the tribunal hearing

well done.

[p.j]

PJ

Thats good news yes HAND the copy in to the court with a letter just asking if the matter could be adjourned until the tribunal hearing

well done.

 

yes good news is it me off to get it handed in they want proof of delivery and proof of sending to lender.

 

pj

[TimetogoRAM]

yes good news is it me off to get it handed in they want proof of delivery and proof of sending to lender.

 

pj

 

When did u send off your application pj?

 

Is it me? Has your application been accepted despite your lender's attempt to strike it out?

[IS IT ME?]

Yes its down for listing now some time in Jan I think.