Repossession questioned by deeds not being signed

[applecart]

Hi Apple,

 

Firstly thank you and I am happy to be stuck with you and IS IT ME.

 

The Judge didn't introduce himself and to be honest I was so nervous I never looked at the list of who he was.

He said he had never heard of the Property Chamber and told me I needed to speak to them to see how long this will take them as he was not going to let this meander Long. Hence 14 days for defence.

The solicitor wanted him to read Paragon V Pender and pulled out the paragraphs he had highlighted.

The Judge said no talk of arrears as this was now a separate issue and he would not make a summary decision in 10 minute hearing after I had bought this to light and he hadn't read it before hand.

The possession was to be sort after if my claims were a red herring and not founded. Because their solicitor kept pressing He actually said that if the mortgage was indeed void and unenforceable then it would open up a lot of other things.

 

Their solicitor was adamant that SPML had the right to be on my deeds and he tried to talk around securitisation which the Judge did understand about, so really the only point I raised was why had the new note holder or people that had my debt had not registered this,as an interested party, the solicitor said they didn't need to and so I told the judge perhaps it might be also as they weren't regulated by the FCA and if done would also need to give me new terms and conditions which they couldn't do. The Judge said he wouldn't rule today on something that may come back and make him look foolish.

 

Thank you so so so much.

 

Allisono.... you did yourself and us all proud....well done.....the lender did not get what they wanted,,,,you came away with your dignity in tact....no need to worry about I & E.....you only have to submit a defence......the ball is in your court....not SPML's........

 

Your letter was enough to cause the judge to respond the way he did.........no Judge is going to risk his reputation in favor of some unscrupulous lender.....

 

To help me to help you further......anything you remember from the hearing today.....post it up......

 

The Judges name will come to you noted on the 'order' he gave today in the post......that in itself could take a while......so.....if you need it sooner.....which i think you will do......call the court in the morning - quote the case number and ask them the name of the judge who granted the order...ok?

 

Just remember......any talk of securitisation is NOT the issue....ok......The issue is the VOID DEED.......the defence will focus on that for you so that the lender understands that 'paragon' has nothing to do with that......

 

I will work on the defence......ask the site team to send it to you directly..........and we will insist that it is not posted on the thread until AFTER the outcome....ok?

 

This is the only way to avoid SPML being 'privvy' to what your defence is going to be prior to the next hearing......i'm just conscious that lenders are visiting the thread too.....and I don't think it is fair to you that they should arm themselves the way they were able to today by virtue of having been allowed to be privvy 'in advance' to your letter.....your application prior to the hearing....

 

Did the Judge set a new hearing date at the same time....just say 'yes' or 'no'......i will pick up on what's going on from your reply ok?

 

Just remember what the Judge told you:

 

"He actually said that if the mortgageicon was indeed void and unenforceable then it would open up a lot of other things" .... and this

 

"The Judge said he wouldn't rule today on something that may come back and make him look foolish."

 

Your in a good place right now.......you should be proud : )

 

Apple

[alisono]

Hi p.j.

 

They were try for a repossession order today. This was stopped pending the deed issue and my submission/defence to be done within 14days.

 

My deed yes stamped by my solicitor and signed by me and my witness, not in the presence of the solicitor just sent back by post.

The solicitor acted for both parties it was part of the deal the broker did, so deed sent back with mortgage offer, I don't actually remember signing a lot so I may ask for a copy of the agreement it just refers to the terms and condition booklet and my son then 17 had to sign something also. I have a copy of the mortgage offer also .

[alisono]

Hi Apple

 

Thank you.

 

No to the date. Just the time to file the defence. The only thing that he wasn't pleased with was my letter as he said it was not laid out as a defence. He wouldn't advise me on anything he said.

 

Only thing that really gave me hope was when he actually said that on the repossession next time the solicitor my Sk for one Nd they mY grant a suspended one as the solicitor kept asking for him to make an interim order on our payments till then.

 

Yes he said the above .

 

Thank you again , you have given me hope and I also think a lot of other people.

[alisono]

That sentence made no sentence sorry,, he said they may not grant a possession on that now separate issue it may be suspended at that hearing.

[p.j]

oh ok good news you got it stopped my turn next,had my letter from the chamber letting me know they received my letter and its contents have been noted they will contact me in due course where appropriate.

 

p.j

Edited October 2, 2013 by p.j
spelling

[applecart]

Hi Apple

 

Thank you.

 

No to the date. Just the time to file the defence. The only thing that he wasn't pleased with was my letter as he said it was not laid out as a defence. He wouldn't advise me on anything he said.

 

Only thing that really gave me hope was when he actually said that on the repossession next time the solicitor my Sk for one Nd they mY grant a suspended one as the solicitor kept asking for him to make an interim order on our payments till then.

 

Yes he said the above .

 

Thank you again , you have given me hope and I also think a lot of other people.

 

Gotcha......good.....No problem : )

 

i'll get back to you soon......

 

Apple

[alisono]

Thank you

[applecart]

Gotcha......good.....No problem : )

 

i'll get back to you soon......

 

Apple

 

Alisono.....remind me......you have an 'official' copy of your deed?

 

and......was their claim a 'standard' claim for possession?

 

Apple

[applecart]

oh ok good news you got it stopped my turn next,had my letter from the chamber letting me know they received my letter and its contents have been noted they will contact me in due course where appropriate.

 

p.j

 

You'll be ok......just focus on the un-executed deed when you get to the hearing....

 

speak soon

 

Apple

[IS IT ME?]

Well done again another one to the list, wait until apple sends you the documents then GO TO THE COURT hand them in and ask them to stamp your copy just in case they go missing again.

 

DO NOT WORRY about this believe me I've been there and had it anjion the hearings because of this.

The next time you go to court would you like me to come?

[IS IT ME?]

No date will be given until you file that defence, so don't worry

next time we will be ready!

Do you know who the agent was for the solicitors?

[applecart]

Well done again another one to the list, wait until apple sends you the documents then GO TO THE COURT hand them in and ask them to stamp your copy just in case they go missing again.

 

DO NOT WORRY about this believe me I've been there and had it anjion the hearings because of this.

The next time you go to court would you like me to come?

 

Hi Is It Me

 

You are a gem.......Alisono should take you along....it will definitely be 'case closed'........ ; )

 

Your knowledge and experience on-hand.....brilliant....

 

Apple

[IS IT ME?]

Yes I have offered and am willing!

The Judge knew about the property chamber as it is in there magazine so I think he thought Oh god I am not making any order here. lol

I notice Jabbba jabba very quiet now lol

Even with the application before the chamber he can not make any orders or rulings.

[alisono]

Yes please come with me thank you

[Jabba the hut]

Yes I have offered and am willing!

The Judge knew about the property chamber as it is in there magazine so I think he thought Oh god I am not making any order here. lol

I notice Jabbba jabba very quiet now lol

Even with the application before the chamber he can not make any orders or rulings.

 

lol I think I deserve time off, I have been very busy on here in the last few days.

 

We have been able to establish

 

 

 

• After the LRA 2002 a borrower with a registered estate can in fact grant a charge (charge by way of legal mortgage) to a Lender.
  
• The Lender must in fact be registered as the Proprietor of the Legal Charge, as a matter of law.
  
• The powers within s23(2) of the LRA 2002 are in fact the powers of the Lender as the registered proprietor of that charge.
  
• The fact that the Administration of Estates Act 1925 has nothing to do with the matter of if a Lender can be registered proprietor of the Legal Charge or not
  
• The fact that Rule 163(1) of the LRR 2003 has nothing to do with this either.
  

I feel that some real and meaningful progress has been made in the last few days.

 

 

 

Applications and defence's can now be amended and made stronger

[applecart]

Yes I have offered and am willing!

This will be of use to those that are not confident to take it forward themselves..... : )

The Judge knew about the property chamber as it is in there magazine so I think he thought Oh god I am not making any order here. lol

 

Yes, it was just a blip i'm sure......he will come unstuck if Allisono requests a transcript of the hearing......i can hear the tape being edited as I type.....LOL

 

I notice Jabbba jabba very quiet now lol

 

I'm patient most of the time as you know....but, hey......i'm not going to take time going round in circles with Jabba when there are more exciting and urgent things going on..... no offence Jabba...lol

Even with the application before the chamber he can not make any orders or rulings.

 

That's a good point.....very good point......every borrower can rely on the response letter they get from the chamber to prove that the application has been made......that should stop possession claims moving forward in county courts..........

 

however, in Alisono's case......looks like the 'district' Judge wants to take over........what are your thoughts on that Is It Me?[/QUOTE]

[applecart]

lol I think I deserve time off, I have been very busy on here in the last few days.

 

We have been able to establish

 

 

 

• After the LRA 2002 a borrower with a registered estate can in fact grant a charge (charge by way of legal mortgage) to a Lender.
  
• The Lender must in fact be registered as the Proprietor of the Legal Charge, as a matter of law.
  
• The powers within s23(2) of the LRA 2002 are in fact the powers of the Lender as the registered proprietor of that charge.
  
• The fact that the Administration of Estates Act 1925 has nothing to do with the matter of if a Lender can be registered proprietor of the Legal Charge or not
  
• The fact that Rule 163(1) of the LRR 2003 has nothing to do with this either.
  

I feel that some real and meaningful progress has been made in the last few days.

 

 

 

Applications and defence's can now be amended and made stronger

 

Looks like I spoke too soon........ : )

 

Jabba....let it be known......We wish you well

 

Apple

[caro]

...we have 'solicitors' who are site team members.....non of whom have come forward as yet to assist this scenerio......it is a new approach.....you only have 14 days......so, your stuck with me and Is It Me for now.........(no offence to our champion site team intended by this comment)

 

We will work on your defence .....ok?

 

Apple

 

Hi apple.

 

Just to let you know that I believe you are mistaken about site team members being solicitors. I'm not aware that any are. I don't know where you got that impression.

[applecart]

Hi apple.

 

Just to let you know that I believe you are mistaken about site team members being solicitors. I'm not aware that any are. I don't know where you got that impression.

 

No Problem......but I assure you there are solicitors at work on the CaG...non of whom have come forward to assist any Cagger with the issue to do with the deeds?

 

Apple

[caro]

No Problem......but I assure you there are solicitors at work on the CaG...non of whom have come forward to assist any Cagger with the issue to do with the deeds?

 

Apple

 

It has been known for people to try and add credibility to their posts by claiming to be legally qualified when they aren't, so if you are aware of anyone on CAG claiming to be a solicitor then please advise [email protected] so that this can be checked out, and we can ensure that they are posting within site rules.

 

Thank you.

[applecart]

It has been known for people to try and add credibility to their posts by claiming to be legally qualified when they aren't, so if you are aware of anyone on CAG claiming to be a solicitor then please advise [email protected] so that this can be checked out, and we can ensure that they are posting within site rules.

 

Thank you.

 

Gotcha......

[alisono]

Yes please I would like HI IT'S ME to come along with me,

On my deed I have a copy which is the copy I have always had, a copy submitted to the court last year.

It has my signature on, my witness and the stamp by the solicitor with date on. No term or anything else.

 

At the LR Office it's the same deed they have told me. SPML have point under title absolute that is a restriction saying I can't register any other charges. In the charges party they have Proprietor as name Southern Pacific Mortgage ltd This is interesting as at the time I had a secured loan with welcome finance but the registry says an equitable charge in favour of progressive financial services but this company actually went in to liquidation on the 13/03/13 so I have an application to send to remove this charge not sent yet.

 

Thank you

[applecart]

Yes please I would like HI IT'S ME to come along with me,

On my deed I have a copy which is the copy I have always had, a copy submitted to the court last year.

It has my signature on, my witness and the stamp by the solicitor with date on. No term or anything else.

 

At the LR Office it's the same deed they have told me. SPML have point under title absolute that is a restriction saying I can't register any other charges. In the charges party they have Proprietor as name Southern Pacific Mortgage ltd This is interesting as at the time I had a secured loan with welcome finance but the registry says an equitable charge in favour of progressive financial services but this company actually went in to liquidation on the 13/03/13 so I have an application to send to remove this charge not sent yet.

 

Thank you

 

Hi Alisono.....

 

It is important that all Borrowers obtain the 'official copy' of the deed from HMLR......it is only the 'official copy' that is permissible in evidence and will assist the defence I am drawing up for you......

 

You need to apply for it in form OC2....this is a link to the said form:

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/_media/downloads/forms/OC2.pdf

 

It also going to be useful for you to obtain a official copy of the title register...in form OC1.....this is a link to the said form:

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/_media/downloads/forms/OC1.pdf

 

There is a fee of £11.00 for each...(I think...it may be that a copy of the 'title' is slightly less....that may be £7.00 I think)

 

We do not have much time....are you in a financial position to send off for it today??

 

If Not....don't worry.....you can send in the one you have on record with the Draft.....(I will amend the 'defence' accordingly)...but, get the 'official copies' anyway.....you can take them to any hearing you have to attend...ok

 

Apple

[applecart]

Can a Site Team Member please forward an email address to take receipt of the 'Defence' drawn up for Allisono please......It is almost ready........

 

Thanks in advance

 

Apple

[p.j]

Hi Alisono.....

 

It is important that all Borrowers obtain the 'official copy' of the deed from HMLR......it is only the 'official copy' that is permissible in evidence and will assist the defence I am drawing up for you......

 

 

You need to apply for it in form OC2....this is a link to the said form:

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/_media/downloads/forms/OC2.pdf

 

It also going to be useful for you to obtain a official copy of the title register...in form OC1.....this is a link to the said form:

 

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/_media/downloads/forms/OC1.pdf

 

There is a fee of £11.00 for each...(I think...it may be that a copy of the 'title' is slightly less....that may be £7.00 I think)

 

We do not have much time....are you in a financial position to send off for it today??

 

If Not....don't worry.....you can send in the one you have on record with the Draft.....(I will amend the 'defence' accordingly)...but, get the 'official copies' anyway.....you can take them to any hearing you have to attend...ok

 

Apple

 

 

hi apple shall i get a oc1 ordered? my deeds say official copy of the original i also got a title deed from HMLR which was £3 pounds and is sent via a pdf to download it shows everything on it except signatures.

 

pj