2 claim forms received today from Northampton County Court

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loobie and welcome to CAG

 

Ok first step ...calm down and dont panic.

 

Are the claims different claim numbers and are the amounts different?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Ok the first is for an overdraft the second is for Personal Loans?

 

If you could provide a little history of your financial relationship with LLoyds /TSB and any disputes.

[AndyOrch]

Looks like their software kicked in and just rescued them from Statute Barred.

 

Ok well lets make them work for their summons......you need to request a copy of the Loan agreement by way of a section 77 request and the CC by way of a section 78 request.Both templates are in the Library letter N.Enclose a 2 x £1.00 postal orders and send to the claimant recorded delivery...print your name no signatures.The Claimant must comply within 12+2 days or they are in default.

 

Next you can send 2x CPR 31.14 requests for documentation referred to in their claims.

 

The requests will be slightly different as one is an Overdraft I will provide you copies shortly.Again send to the Claimants Sols recorded delivery.

 

Next unless you already have in your possession are the statements for the Overdraft CPR does not always prove fruitful in disclosure of statements so you could request a DSAR on all three accounts at a cost of £10.They have 40 days to comply with this request so it may be only received post defence date.

 

Lastly have you retained any paperwork from all the accounts...Default Notice/Demand Notice or Notice of Assignments?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Send the Section 77/78 requests to the Claimant..everything else to their Sols.

 

I am assuming you wish to defend to try to avoid a CCJ? If you wish to admit then yes you complete the form N9A and make a suggested monthly payment.

 

You have 33 days in total (5 deemed served so 28) 14 days to acknowledge Service and if you wish to defend then another 14 days to submit a defence.You can do all this on line at MCOL once you have registered for the service and then using the password on your summons.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loobie

 

Hope you have had time to digest and consider your position to which way you wish to deal with this.

 

I would advise you request the agreements (sec77/78) irrespective of the claim it may be useful for the future.

 

You have had a lot of information thrown at you in last 6/7 hours I understand it can be bewildering.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Good Morning Loobie

 

Ok the template provided by CB is for Credit Cards and Personal Loans (sec 78 CC,s and Sec 77 for the loan) it is important to slightly alter the section you request the information under.

 

The CPR 31.14 request is for information should you decide to defend...let me know your intentions and I will provide links.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Ok this is the CPR 31.14 for the summons re Overdraft:- Again print name and send recorded del (there is no fee)

 

CPR 31.14 Request (Overdraft and Credit Card)

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 The agreement and Overdraft Facility Agreement conformation and Terms and Conditions from that date. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 The Demand/Termination Notice (Notice served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 (Overdraft Content)

 

3.The Default Notice served under sections 87(1) CCA1974

 

4. Notices of Sums in Arrears under running account credit CCA2006 sec 86C

 

5. Statements of account from inception.

 

6. Notice of Assignment

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.CPR 15.5

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

Send the above recorded delivery to their Sols and retain proof of postage.

 

 

 

CPR 31.14 for Personal Loan

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

[AndyOrch]

right confused again lol, the first one is for the overdraft on my bank? - is this correct? Correct

 

and as the credit card and loan are on one claim form do I just send one letter or two? One

 

Also it states in those templates that I contacted the courts but I havent do I do this now or as the date on them is 21st February do I have 14 days from yesterday as it says that the day of service is 5 days after the issue date? You will have by AoS very shortly IE 19 days from the date on the summons

 

Thanks again

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

I recently posted the following for another poster who was undecided whether he had grounds to defend a claim:-

 

Defending any claim is like playing chess there is a process to follow.Vague Particulars of Claim entered..argument kept minimal ...less is best...less for you to find fault.So long as it complies with CPR 16 the court are happy.I call this testing the water to see what you will do.

Your initial response...you refute or agree anything not referred to is taken as acceptance and admittance by you the defendant.So your response will deal with what they claim and only what they claim...your response just as vague...now you are testing the water and see if they wish to proceed.

 

50% of claims are stayed if the defendants response is correct...do not forget 80% of claims are by way of assignment so its not the OP litigating...they know its pointless and not cost efficient to sue so they write it off and claim tax relief.

Not the debt buyers...but they can afford to submit an initial claim..they bought it for 10p in the pound so any litigation that is successful is good profit..and here on CAG we only see a snapshot so lets assume that 80% of claims are not defended...nice profit nice business.

 

Anyway I digress ......so to the 20% that do offer defence...this creates work and jeopardises their investment in that debt having to now pay further monies and even instruct council (in some cases) to process the claim.That 10p in the £1 now could become a break even trying to get judgment...with the obvious intention of a Charging Order to secure their investment.Not so profitable now.

 

So back to your draft...you have played your hand in one foul swoop and revealed all your argument/contentions that you could possibly offer...there is no surprises left along the way for the AQ or Witness Statement so they can now decide whether to proceed and take you on pay the AQ fee edge their bets with an application for Summary Judgment......game over you lose.

[AndyOrch]

I will drfat a quick mix of CPR 31.14 for O/D and CC shortly... bear with me.

[AndyOrch]

CPR requests in post ~30 now amended to suit your summons Loobie

[AndyOrch]

right i have printed them off, so i dont need a postal order for these just send them first class recorded delivery to the solicitor named on the claim form- is this correct?

 

Correct and then wait.Watch the dates and acknowledge on time and then read... read ....and research.

 

Oh and if you wish you can also request a DSAR (£10) for all three accounts.This is separate to the court proceedings but will provide all data held.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Your consumer Rights...BCOBS..Civil procedure Rules and other posters threads in your position that have attained success...knowledge is power.

 

You can do the DSAR now they have 40 days to comply so sooner the better.

[AndyOrch]

Yes there is a template in the library and you only need make one request for all three accounts.

[AndyOrch]

There is no requirement to sign a CPR request however to just get it sorted sign it and put a line through your signature.(make unique)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Loobie

 

To all intense and purposes the CPR 31.14 is a pointless request...some reply some don't...but it does add leverage to any defence when you state that the claimant has frustrated matters in clarifying the debt/balance.

Stick to your timetable and have a look around at some of the defences entered here in the forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy

 

I have just been reading some posts and remembered you had said about section 77/78 requests, I havent done this, I havent sent anything to Marlins just the cpr requests to the solicitors. Do I need to send these?

 

I thought it had already gone on the 26th Feb Loobie.....send now.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Separate one for each agreement with 3 x £1.00 POs....you can use one envelope though:wink:

[AndyOrch]

Recorded Delivery Loobie:wink:

[AndyOrch]

Hi loobie

 

Ok you now need to type out (verbatim) each of the Particulars of Claim..then we can draft 2 x defences for input tomorrow into MCOL.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Claim is therefore stayed Loobie until either you or the claimant makes application to proceed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Hi loobie 25/March/2013

 

Ok you now need to type out (verbatim) each of the Particulars of Claim..then we can draft 2 x defences for input tomorrow into MCOL.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Without sight of what you actually submitted loobie its difficult to advise on its merits...I did offer as per above.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Give me time to consider Loobie and I will get back to you with what options are now open to you.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Your defence is really an holding defence and as such is easily refuted by the claimant.Their response even though partially a templated reply but their threat of Summary Judgment should be given great consideration.

 

That is all it is at this stage as they have asked you to complete the N9A Admittance which would allow them to proceed to judgment without further costs.

 

Making application for Summary judgment would require further costs and also representation at the hearing.

 

Here is the relevant CPR that covers summary judgment for your perusal :- http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part24

 

At the moment the claim is stayed ...neither party have submitted DQs...so until such time they make that application or respond officially through the court ...it will remain that way.

 

If they do make application then you should be served a copy of the Application N244 and details of the hearing.

 

With what they have disclosed Loobie do you still consider this matter a defendable claim?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Sorry to be a pest, but before I fill out the admission form should I write to Restons and state that the reason my defence was vague is because I have yet to receive responses from them in regards to my CPR and section 77/78 requests?

 

Regards

Loobie

 

But they have responded Loobie ......" Hi all, thought no news was good news but ive received a letter from Restons today saying that the court has served them with a copy of the defence I recently filed, and they have listed 2 points of my defence with responses. They have enclosed the signed credit agreement dated in 2004 and also a copy of a letter I have never received from Marlin Europe II Limited dated 13 November 2012 basically saying that they had assigned the debt. "[/i]

 

Thats why I asked if what they have disclosed ...do you still wish to defend?