Vincethod vs Barclays

[vincethod]

Hey CAG folks,

 

OK, So I've come here a little late (I fear).

 

Here's a little background, my current account with Barclays has been running with overdrafts & charges for a number of years, and has come to a crunch point where I need to stop all charges and claw my way back into the black (but that's a whole other story). A friend of mine heard last weekend's moneybox on Radio 4 about reclaiming banks charges and told me I could get them back. Like others I was naturally skeptical, but investigations on the net showed that the whole thing appears to be true, heck the BBC have it all over their websites, and I hear that Watchdog will be mentioning it next week (get ready for an influx of users after that).

 

I first landed on the Govan law centre's pages and found the Motley Fool's forums enlightening - and it was from there that I came across CAG, and after reading the FAQ, I've signed up (obviously!).

 

I'm a little worried though that I might have shot my bolt (for the want of a better phrase) - I have kept all my statements from the last couple of years (in fact most of them from the last few months were unopened - I'm really only just getting my mind properly switched on to managing this money, too late) so I can see that since Nov 2004 I have been charged in the order of £1200 paid referral fees.

 

I downloaded and amended letter 2 from the Govan Law Centre (GLC) website (http://www.govanlc.com/step1_letter.html) and sent it to Barclay's customer relations department on Monday 10th Oct, but am slightly concerned about the following points in what I have done:

 

1a) The GLC letter gives Barclays only 7 days to refund (and I'm positive that ain't gonna happen) - I notice all the letters here give 14 days

 

1b) To my (non-legal) mind, the GLC letter looks quite harsh (to the point of defamation?) and having read the FAQ here regarding not calling the banks criminals I am slightly worried.

 

2) I sent the letter to the Customer Relations dept, because it was the only address on Barclay's website that looked likely - should I have posted it to my branch? - To be honest, I don't actually know which is my branch, is it the one that the sort code belongs to or the one that I actually use when I speak to a personal banker (these are in two cities about 150miles apart)

 

3) I'm only claiming for 2 years' charges even though the charges must have been in place prior to that, as that is all the data I have access to without a DPA request. Could the bank interpret this in such a manner that if I was really in the right and they were in the wrong, why not claim for all of it?

 

4) The OFT made their ruling in April, surely the banks will have altered their T&Cs to indemnify them against such claims by now?

 

I realise I may have acted in haste and may have blown my chance at this, but any reassurance/advice you may be able to give, even if it is "Yes, you've blown it, forget about it" I will take with good grace and as a lesson learned.

 

These are the facts, so it only remains for me to say thanks for taking the time to read this post, and thanks for any advice you can offer.

 

Vince

[argyle]

hi Vincethod.

Welcome to the forum.

Firstly you need to keep calm.

You mention you have 2 years statements, you can claim upto 6 years you know.

Firstly i suggest you read the FAQ's and understand the proceedure,it's very simple and easy to use.

Stick to your timetable and not the bank's and you will be fine.

You can start again and send the data protection act letter and follow the guidelines for reclaiming your charges through this site.

All the template letters are in the bank letter templates forum, they just need a few minor adjustments to suit you circumstances.

The reason for giving Barclays 14 days to comply between letters(except DPA letter which is 40 days) is so if your claim came to court, the courts would see you have given Barclays ample time to resolve your complaint.

 

If i was you start your claim again with the proven methods from this site.

Any questions you have use the same thread here so we can follow your progress throughout and advise you further.

 

Don't worry leave that emotion to Barclays.

Send your letter to the folowing address.

Barclays Bank PLC

Leicester

LE87 2BB

 

Thats Barclays main sorting depot it will be dealt from there.

 

Good Luck.

Argyle.

[vincethod]

Thanks Argyle,

 

The reason I'm only going back two years is twofold

 

1) I already have the statements and can therefore skip the data protection act request merry-go-round phase (Actually, I've found a bunch of statements from 2001 and there aren't any fees on them, so the problem probably started for me much more recently), and what's more, as part of my budgeting plans to clear the OD I have entered all of them into Excel line-by-line (that was a fun Sunday afternoon!) so I can present them to Barclays.

 

2) over the last 2 years the amount comes to £1200, and to be frank, that's enough.

 

 

I think I'll start all over again, using the templates on this site, I'm just a bit worried they'll see through the fact I'm obviously firing other people's bullets.

 

Also, I am a bit panicked that they'll cease all DDs on my account and cause my mortgage to miss a payment - I'm hovering just outside my authorised OD of £1100 at the moment (currently at £1300) and have read a few horror stories about the banks closing accounts and demanding immediate repayment. With a track record like mine I think I'm going to struggle to open a new account as a parachute - any thoughts (I appreciate that's moving off topic there).

 

Actually, I'm not panicked as such, but concerned.

 

Vince (ready to regroup and start again)

[victimnomore]

Good advice from argyle.

 

1) I already have the statements and can therefore skip the data protection act request merry-go-round phase

I would also advise you to send in the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to get all the figures for the last six years. If you want to though you can start a claim for just the two years, and then go back for the rest when you find out how much it is.

 

And some of your other points;

Could the bank interpret this in such a manner that if I was really in the right and they were in the wrong, why not claim for all of it?

They can interpret it however they want - it's not their interpretation that counts!! The law is on your side.

The GLC letter gives Barclays only 7 days to refund

That's O.K., just wait 14 before your LBA.

the GLC letter looks quite harsh

Don't worry, it's worded by lawyers.

 

I sent the letter to the Customer Relations dept, because it was the only address on Barclay's website that looked likely - should I have posted it to my branch?

Don't worry about the branch - they don't seem to have any authority at branch level so would only pass it up to HO anyway. Personally I would recommend the registered office address;

BARCLAYS BANK PLC

1 Churchill Place

London

E14 5HP

 

 

 

 

except for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) which should be sent to;

Barclays Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

 

 

 

 

and finally;

The OFT made their ruling in April, surely the banks will have altered their T&Cs to indemnify them against such claims by now?

Aparently the banks never learn, they're STILL charging the same sky-high fees and STILL trotting out the same lame excuses they've been trying it on with all along!

 

And NO, there's no way they can just patch up their T&Cs to cover themselves.

[vincethod]

Hi folks,

 

After picking up on both of your advice, I think my next step is going to be to send the LBA next Monday 23rd (ie 14 days after the preliminary letter, despite the mention of 7 days in the prelim letter) and from that point on, to stick with the templates from here.

 

Is this letter best addressed to Leicester or London and does it make a difference? (I'm in Leicester as it happens so the question would be is Barclays internal mail any faster / more secure that Royal Mail?) - Maybe I'll just toss a coin...

 

I'm actually beginning to look forward to this, although my finances are still a bit of state, a friend has offered to sub me any court fees, on the obvious understandng that he gets them back when we win (we WILL win, oh yes...).

 

In the meantime I guess I'd better start plugging numbers into the famous interest spreadsheet so I know what I'm actually going to be claiming for.

 

Cheers for the support, I'll keep you all posted (oh and I will be telling everyone I know about this site as well)

 

Vince

[vincethod]

Well, the 7 days is up (more than) and Barclays have replied to my first letter (the GLC one)

 

Thank you for your letter received at this office on 12 October.

 

I am sorry you are unhappy with teh charges you have incurred. Your comments are receiving attention and one of my team will contact you as soon as possible

 

May I take this opportunity to explain that whilst we will endeavour to respond to you within timescale outlined in your letter, we cannot fully guarantee that we will do so. Sometimes it does take longer to fully invesitigate a complaint. However we do aim to find a solution within four weeks. If we are not able to do so we will always write to you explaining what is happening. A full report or an update on our progress will be sent to you within eight weeks.

Please refer to the enclosed leaflet which provides you with a more detailed explanation of how we will deal with this matter.

 

Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please do not hesitate to contact us on 0207 116 4561 or via Freephone 0800 282390

 

Yours sincerely

 

(so how long will it take by their timescale? As soon as possible? 4 weeks? 8 weeks? I don't thinkk so, they'll be acting a bit quicker than that)

 

Now, my first thoughts are that this is a standard reply, but it seems different from what I've seen other folks receive as a casual brush off, and (sherlock holmes mode on) the spacing on the phone number suggests it was actually typed (by someone who doesn't know there is no such code as 0207)

 

Still, I feel that my next step is to send the LBA.

[bearo]

yes send your lba giving them 14 days.

[vincethod]

Before I actually get tthis in the post, can someone have a quick look at my planned LBA I have added my comments / queries in dark red:

 

Freepost RLTA-CSUE-TCHC

Head Office Customer Relations

London

E14 5HP

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT: xx-xx-xx, xxxxxxxx

 

Your Reference: xxxxxxxx

As taken from their acknowledgment

 

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond positively to my letter of the 10th October 2006.

Added the word "positively" as they

did

acknowledge my letter, albeit with a standared response

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I love this line, I'd have never thought of the word fiduciary

 

I calculate that you have taken £1295.00 from the period of 5th November 2004 to 4th September 2006. I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 10th October 2006

 

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus my costs and without further notice.

Do I want to mention

"...plus interest plus my costs"

here? I know I'm not claiming the 8% at this point, but I don't want to have closed off that avenue down the line

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

I'm planning on posting this on Tuesday (giving them 14 days from their acknowledged receipt of my preliminary letter). How does it look?

 

Vince

[vincethod]

ETA: I will of course change "I calculate that you have taken £1295.00 from the period of " to "I calculate that you have taken £1295.00 for the period of "

[victimnomore]

The standard LBA ends with;

for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

So your point about the interest is covered.

[vincethod]

LBA in the post today

[bearo]

excellent, in the meantime keep reading the longer threads, get yourself up to speed with money claim online or the old fashioned county court route so that you are not wasting any time when it comes to filing your small claim ,these guys do like to drag it out so the sooner its in the better!

[vincethod]

Will do - in fact I've been reading through the longer threads on Barclays for a while yet so I think I know what's coming, and I have to kep revising my idea of wen I'm going to get paid (Christmas ? New Year? Easter? My Birthday?...), but as many posters have added, the longer they delay, the more interest they pay.

 

I notice you're in God's own county of Leicestershire as well, I take it that I'll be taking them to Leicestershire county court

[vincethod]

(sorry, finger slipped)

 

...I notice you're in God's own county of Leicestershire as well, I take it that I'll be taking them to Leicestershire county court, that's near the station isn't it?

 

I'll take a stroll down there this weekend to familiarise myself with the place (and pick up the N1 forms)

[vincethod]

Well, stone me.

 

14 days since LBA posted is nearly up (14 days since posting ends tomorrow) and no word from my good old friends at Barclays towers.

 

Against my better judgement I'm giving them til Thursday to reply (like they're going to) then its off to MCOL I go. I love the fact that they'll see the debit card transaction before they get the papers served. (oh, and they can add the three charges from October as well)

 

(Sorry, am I supposed to be enjoying this as much as I am or is it like recycling?)

 

Quick question ref parachute accounts: I'm off to talk to the co-op in a couple of weeks, is it wise to point out that I know their OD charges to be unlawful when I sign up? (not that I intend incurring any any more)

 

Vince

[vincethod]

MCOL Submitted tonight!!!

 

I brought it, I put it on the table and I opened it...

 

It is (so I'm led to believe) on!

[vincethod]

OK, Sent MCOL off yesterday (for £1505 inc interest) and came home to an offer of £1000 (from an original claim of £1200).

 

I am very tempted to phone them on the number they suppky on their offer and try to reason with them (Lord help me!). I figure that it cannot hurt, as if they do not accept my compromise (I'll waive the interest) hen I just carry on as planned.

 

In my mind it's worth a shot (I'm just going to let them get in and get themselves a coffee first...)

 

Vince

[Welshman]

I don't remember where I read it but, in the last day or so, a claimant phoned and spoke to a lady at Barclays who increased the offer from 80%to 90% of what was being claimed. It was accepted.

[vincethod]

That's exactly what happened - The original offer was for about 80% I called and suggested full amount plus costs plus the £90 they'd charged in Oct (total 1500) and they accepted. I spoke to a lady in Swansea. I'm now just waiting for teh funds to go in and I'll call MCOL off. But right now I'm chalking it up in the win column.

 

JOY!!!!!

 

Vince

[tuffjam]

Hi Vince. Congrats on the outcome, that's fantastic!

 

How did you come to be speaking to a woman in Swansea? Was this where the offer letter came from?

 

It's interesting that they seemed to roll over so easily (not to detract from your efforts of course!) I hope they're the same for me.

[vincethod]

Yes, she was from their Retail Customer Services dept.

 

I feel a bit deflated as I was all geared up for the long haul and the caved after only four weeks and two letters - I mean, that's not exactly playing the game now is it?

 

Having said that, I still haven't seen the money go into my account, and I'm a bit wary of going out to celebrate until it does. Still, the MCOL is staying in place until I'm 'holding the folding'

 

All the best with your claim.

 

Vince

[Bookworm]

How did THAT happen? I got my money back last week and they wouldn't entertain adding the £60 in additional charges, saying I would have to go through litigation again if I wanted them!

 

Congrats, but I'm flabbergasted.

 

And Swansea? HOW? :-?

[Welshman]

This is the second post today that mentions Swansea. There's one this morning, I'll look now.

[Welshman]

Just to clarify Vince, did the settlement include the interest and costs incurred for filing plus the £90 October charges?

[vincethod]

Right,

Cash is in the bank or, as Blackadder might say, seen it, nicked it, spent it!

 

Yes Welshman, the final tally included the £90 in october, As i had included that amount in my MCOL claim, it also included the MCOL costs as well, but not the 8% interest (I figured I had to offer some concession to get them to agree).

 

As to why Swansea I couldn't say, maybe Barclays have just opened a new call-centre their to deal with all the bank charge enquiries. All I know is that from watching Torchwood there's some rum things going on in south Wales...

 

Vince