Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Bounced Cheque - Cause for Action for Damages? ** VICTORY IS MINE **


madpriest
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3885 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

@bankfodder - Thanks

 

I wasn't able to get to the court yesterday as I had two pressing pastoral issues to deal with.

 

I will not leave it open as per your suggestion but fix it.

 

£4.5K is not, IMHO, stretching it. It's an accepted fact that bouncing a cheque when there are funds available

is defamation. For General Damages I'm not sure that you even have to prove them. I know that you have to

prove the quantum in special damages and there are cases where the claim for special damages for bounced cheques

was thrown out of court.

 

That particular case (I think it was Khopranhor v Woolwich Building Society) --- the guy lost his claim for special damages,

but even as a sole trader he got £1k plus the value of the cheque - in his case around £500 so he got £1.5K

 

If we take the £1k per cheque bounced, + the value of the cheques we come to around £3.3K and I'm adding

£1.2K for Christmas :-) ---- Seriously a bounced cheque from the Church of England has got to be worth more

that a Sole Trader ---

 

Laters

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 170
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Great - those are the sorts of arguments which a judge will listen to.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I went down to the County Court ... my N1 in my hand ..."

 

But they wouldn't take it.

 

"We don't take money claims any more. You either have to send it to a central processing

unit in Salford or MCOL"

 

Great - You either have to send a cheque, or postal order (add 10%)

or send a letter and they will call you back to get your card number.

(Really well organised!!)

 

MCOL only takes around 1500 characters so no long POC's for them.

 

So I guess its in the post !!

 

Bugger!

 

We need a sticky for the new County Court Arrangements

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well - after the initial hiatus and the Christmas holidays the new county court system

sum into place and my N1 has been delivered to Santander.

 

I've got a Notice of Issue

 

Now lets see what they come back with in 28 days.

 

My guess is that they will fight this because they dont want to be seen to lose a BCOB case

 

Laters ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Well they have till Friday 25th to file an acknowledgemt. I am assuming that they will at the last minute

and then defend the claim. (I am not sure that they will want a full BCOB hearing - however they could 'pay me off' to make me

go away.

 

My question and I'm sure its answered somewhere. Assuming we go to court, what constitutes the 'bundle' I have to prepare?

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

We can sort out the bundle after they have filed their defence.

If they don't file an acknowledgement by the deadline, then make sure that you apply for judgment, instantly afterwards.

 

It will take a few days for the judgment to register - but after that we will move quickly onto the next step.

 

I can't remember - did you ask for a fixed sum? or did you leave it to the court to decide?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hang on a minute, when did you issue the claim?

Surely 14 days have passed now?

Link to post
Share on other sites

What with the Christmas closure, the "Notice of Issue" shows that it is deemed to be served on 11th January.

They say that Santander have until 25th to acknowledge.

 

I guess I can call the court on the afternoon of 25th and if no ackowledgement registered with their system

then I can send a Request for Judgment to hit them first thing Monday.

 

Having said that i can't imagine them not fighting it. If they DO miss the date, then

it's likely to be the law of cock-up rather than deliberate.

 

We'll see

....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes - but if you get a judgment it will have good embarrassment value and good chuckle value for us.

 

They will have to apply for a setaside which will be a bit of fun.

 

Did you leave the award to the discretion of the court?

If you did then as soon as you have got your judgment, you will have to ask for a hearing to assess the award. You will need a form N244 to do this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that

 

This is the paragraph from the POC

 

Quote

And the claimant claims £131.00 compensation for actual loss plus damages not exceeding £4500 for inconvenience and damage to reputation to be decided by the court plus interest pursuant to s.69 County Courts Act 1984

Endquote

 

Do I still require that special form??

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. You get judgment but you won't be able to enforce the judgment. Instead you will have to apply for a hearing to decide on quantum.

 

They will apply for a setaside and will try to buy you off.

 

There setaside may say that they haven't received the claim. There is normally a presumption in favour of a setaside.

 

Under the rules they should apply for a setaside by filing an N244 and paying a fee. However, I have noticed that they often simply send a letter and the courts often accept this as a valid application. It is extremely unfair.

 

The best you can do is apply for judgment the instant that you are allowed to.

Then ask for a hearing to assess damages immediately.

Call the court a couple of times a week to see if they have received an application to setaside.

If they have received a letter then you should immediately write to the court and object that they have not applied using proper channels and stating their grounds correctly.

If the court is decent, they will reject the letter and tell the bank to do it properly.

 

Because you are a church and not an individual, they will try to have the case heard at their local court - not yours.

You will have to counter that the court should either be your local court or the court which is local to your branch with whom, you have the account.

 

At some pint the bank may try to buy you off - they would normally want the setaside first.

You will have to decide whether you want to stick to principle and insist on the judgment. I think that you are entitled to say that as it is a matter of reputation, you must have your judgment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

N244 is an application for anything.

 

We'll work out the form when you get the judgment.

I'm sure it won' be difficult

Link to post
Share on other sites

An interesting development today.

 

The end date for Santander to acknowledge claim is tomorrow 25/1/2013.

 

What with the snow and the late post, I decided to call the court today

to see whether any acknowledgement had been registered.

 

As of today, nothing.

 

I confirmed that as of 'close of play' tomorrow, I can proceed to judgement although I was

informed that even after tomorrow they can still acknowledge so I have to get my judgement in quick.

It's a case of the first one entered into the system.

 

I also raised the question about an N244 for a Hearing to Assess the Award.

I was told that it was 'not needed' for the following reason:

 

If my claim had asked for damages at the discretion of the court it would have been

entered as 'unspecified amount' and the appropriate fee for a claim for 'unspecified amount'

would have been asked for and then it would need a hearing to assess.

 

In my case I have asked for a maximum of £4500 at the discretion of court

and it is this amount that has been entered as a 'fixed amount'.

 

It was explained that I can proceed without a hearing.

 

Good News indeed. I await tomorrow and I'll call the court around 4:00pm to see whether

any acknowledgement. If not my request for judgement goes off my special delivery

for first thing Monday.

 

Fun and Games eh??

 

I'm still going to prepare my case on the basis that they will eventually fight it

and I need some idea of what the bundle should contain, in what order etc

 

Thanks and regards

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is right. Even at the expiry of the deadline they can still defend. This is why I advised you to apply for judgment ASAP - to lessen their chances of getting in.

Even when you have applied, if the court notices - before the judgment is granted - that a defence/acknowledgement has been filed, they will probably refuse the judgment.

 

So far as their other advice to you goes, the court is wrong. The claim is for an unspecified amount and the court made an error in accepting it. It should have been a part 8 claim. The courts often make this error.

 

We shall have to see what form the judgment takes before deciding the next step.

Of course it would be very satisfying to put the bailiffs in straight away. Quite a laugh in fact.

Are you allowed to say prayers for this kind of thing?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bugger

 

I've just noticed that I issued the claim against Santander at their POBOX address used for complaints.

 

It's not likely that we can enforce against that is there? Certainly cant send the Bailiffs around to a POBOX?

 

Should I make application to change the address?

 

I was just about to apply for judgement today !!

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a bad mistake.

If you change the address, you will effectively be amending the claim - and you will have to begin again with service, 14 day period etc.

You will have to amend by means of an N244 which will cost you £60 - plus it will take a couple of weeks for the judge to approve the amendment - before you can serve the claim again.

 

If you apply for judgment, they will apply for a setaside and get it very easily. However, at least they will definitely have received the summons and they will know that it is serious.

 

I'm not sure whether the application for the bailiff's warrant allows you to indicate an address other than the service address. - In fact I have had a look and the application form allows you to put in a different address. http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=555

 

I think that I would just go for it. Put the address of your local branch for enforcement.

See what happens.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's another one we did

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6276214.stm

 

Those were the days.

How we laughed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok - Latest news from the court

 

Santander did not acknowledge claim.

 

Default Judgement Requested

 

Default Judgmenet GRANTED in the total amount >£4600

 

What Next - Do I have to move fast/ Send the Baliffs in before they get a chance to set aside?

 

Totally amazed at the lacksadasical attitude of Santander.

It could be that they really didnt receive it but its strange that two other letters sent to the same address

elicited a response

 

Happy Daze

Link to post
Share on other sites

on my phone inn a car.

 

Put in bailiffs now.

Use local branch address. Don't hang around

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...