Barclaycard PPI

[felixflyer]

Hi

 

I have been paying off my Barclaycard for over 5 years via an agreement.

 

I recently decided to SAR them in the hope that my charges my clear the remaining balance (£1500).

 

I have received the SAR pack today but they have only gone back to 2004.

My account was started in 1995.

There are lots of charges on the statements and I know there will be more in the years that are missing.

 

I also found out that I was paying PPI for 11 years! I didnt even know.

 

The problem is I only have the last 8 years and the last 5-6 years the account has not been active. I therefore only really have 2 and a half years worth of active account statements. There is 9 years worth of active account which I dont have statements for.

 

For the PPI, I had a few credit limit increases over the 9 years so cant just use the same PPI charge as the last 2 years as it would have been lower than this. BC did however provided some data which included dates of all my limit increases. I lived on my limit so I used that and the same percentage as I took from the statements I have to work out the missing PPI. If they would send me the missing statements then I would happily use those figures.

 

On the data they sent me it says the PPI was an 'Advised Sale' whatever that means. There were not T&C's on the application form though, just two boxes to tick, yes or no.

 

 

For both the charges and PPI I am using compound interest of 24.9 which I read on here. I have them on seperate sheets and will be dealing with them seperately.

 

The PPI I have estimated to have been £3003.91 with CI this comes to £53309.38.

 

How likely am I to get this? I take it this would go to court and would not be covered by small claims? Would I be better going for 8%?

 

Regards

[ims21]

The PPI I have estimated to have been £3003.91 with CI this comes to £53309.38.

 

How likely am I to get this? I take it this would go to court and would not be covered by small claims? Would I be better going for 8%?

 

You won't get that amount and it if you took it to court you would be well outside the small claims track and should you lose there would be an exposure to costs which could be considerable.

 

Use this spreadsheet for your PPI claim amount on the basis that you don't have all f your statements.

 

The "Claim To" date should be the date that they stopped charging interest when you went into the payment arrangement.

 

The rate of interest is the rate they were charging you on the card for purchases. If the rate changed then use an average of the rate they charged you.

 

Go along to the fos website and download a copy of the consumer questionnaire and complete it.

 

Send your completed questionnaire, a copy of your spreadsheet and a brief covering letter to the lender. They will have 8 weeks to investigate your claim and give you a final decision before you can get fos involved.

 

FosCISheet v101.xls

[felixflyer]

Thanks, they stopped chargeing interest initially but have been charging it again for the last couple of years. Can I add the months and just miss out the ones in between?

[Lynnzer]

You seem to be putting the cart before the horse here.

You need to first get them to agree the full dates of the account so you can work from there.

Actually, it's more the case that once you have the dates and B/Crd agree the complaint then they should do the calculation and ask if you agree it. They don't normally get things wrong, at least by much.

An Advised Sale is one where they spoke with you and recommended the sale, or at least told you all about it to make an informed decision.

You're normally on very safe ground for a complaint on such as sale as you have acted on advice.

You asked me about the size of the claim. Let them do the worrying about this. As Bobby Thompson says, "I'm up to my neck in debt. I wish I was a bit taller". It's their problem, not yours.

With my claim of over £26k, they didn't make any attempt to fob me off. They accepted with no problem. The only thing is that, apparently, any cheque over £25k has to be nodded through by a senior executive.

It took me almost 7 weeks and the day before I was going on holiday as a result of the acceptance of the claim I had to chase them to get them to pay directly into my account that very day. I told them I was taking my wife on holiday for a respite before going in for Chemotherapy on my return and that if I had to cancel the holiday due to non payment I would go straight to Watchdog and shoot them out of the water. I got payment within 20 minutes from that.

[felixflyer]

Thanks, so basically they should work it all out for me, will they include the interest I have paid on the premiums? They say they do not have the info over 8 years old. Will they estimate this?

[slick132]

Hi Flex,

 

You will start from a better position if you do your own calcs using the info Ims gave you above.

 

Then you can start the claim by telling BC what you expect to receive. Unless you do this, you have no way of knowing if the amount offered by BC is fair or not, based on realistic expectations.

 

BC are not likely to include PPI for earlier than 2004 which is the date from which they've supplied SAR response data.

 

If you want older data, you need to request this before starting the reclaim process.

 

But I'll also ask Ims to confirm if BC are likely to estimate older PPI amounts and if they are likely to accept any estimate that you provide to them.

 

[ims21]

Hi

 

Dropping in as requested by Slick.

 

First of all, complete the spreadsheet I linked you to with the information that you do know.

 

For the missing periods you can put in an estimate of the PPI that would have been applied for each missing month.

 

Send a print of the sheet to BC together with the completed questionnaire.

 

Now, although BC say they don't have data going back beyond "x" years, we do know that they are not always stating fact. Indeed we have seen cases on here where a lender denies having data and yet when a PPI offer comes through it mysteriously contains premiums for a period that the lender had previously told the claimant that no data exists.

 

With these older claims with apparently "missing" data, it can be a game of cat and mouse together with a bot of negotiation. They know they charged you PPI, you know they charged you PPI....it can come down to reaching an agreement that both sides are agreeable to.

 

It must also be borne in mind that some lenders do adopt the approach that they will not pay out on "missing" figures unless the claimant has evidence of the premiums paid.

 

So it can be a bit of a tussle.

 

If it were me, I would submit the claim as I have suggested and await their response. On your fos questionnaire you can also state that if they claim to not have data for earlier years that they should make an offer based on a "best estimate" of the missing data.

 

If the lender upholds your complaint you will receive an offer letter which will usually consist of three figures....the premiums paid, the contractual interest on them and the 8%. The offer will not contain a detailed premium by premium breakdown but you can ask for that to be provided so you can see exactly how they have calculated their offer.

 

If they do not include a provision for estimated amounts for the missing years you can start to challenge them that because it would not be unreasonable to assume that at least something was paid and they have profited from that. Consequently not making an offer for the missing periods does not conform to the regulators requirements that the claimant.should be put back in the position he would have been in had the PPI not been applied in the first place.

 

If you are not happy with any offer they make then the first step would be to challenge the lender on their offer and if you cannot reach agreement then you can ask fos to have a look at the matter.

 

Hope this helps.

[felixflyer]

Thanks,

 

I have filled out the questionaire and spreadsheet. I do have banks statements for that period showing how much I paid for the monthly payment. I used to only pay the minimum really so along with what they sent me showing the dates my limit increased I can fairly accurately work out the PPI payments. Its interesting because there are loads of charges on there so if they do provide old statements to try and show I have overestimated then I can then hit them for these as well.

 

The one thing I dont understand is the contractural interest. You say fill in the fos questionairre, i though if you went the fos route you were not entitled to this and only 8% on top of the premiums?

 

Regards

[ims21]

For a PPI claim on a credit card you should get back

 

1 - > The premiums paid

 

2 -> The contractual interest they charged you on the account as a result of those premiums being on there

 

3-> If the reconstruction of the account without the PPI causes the reconstructed balance to shows a credit figure for any period then you get 8% simple interest on that credit figure for that period.

[felixflyer]

Hi

 

I have received a letter back from BC saying that I ticked the box on the application form and so i am not entitled to a refund of my payments. The agreement I ticked is here. Do I still have a case? My argument is that I didn't get any T&C's so when I started working as a contractor I was still paying it even though it wouldn't pay out. Also as there were no T&C's or as far as I can see even a statement saying how much it would cost then it was mis-sold.

 

 

 

What is confusing is that when I received my SAR pack it contained a large computer printout of all my account details and there was a section about PPI. This seems to suggest that it was an advised sale over the phone. I have only just noticed however that the date is 2005 and this was taken out in 1995. Should I disregard this?

 

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Edited September 26, 2012 by felixflyer

[ims21]

I would challenge them on the differing information about how you apparently applied for the PPI.

 

Remind them that, as a contractor, the PPI would have been useless.

 

If they still refuse to refund then pass your claim to fos.

[Lynnzer]

Box 7, the PPI box isn't sufficiently informative.

It doesn't state that this should be read in conjunction with all the terms and conditions and as such is therefore misleading.

I'm having a similar issue with HBOS. They state that ea the box is ticked it was taken as an acceptance. They do make the pretty damning statement that it appears that due to my employment status at time of application I would not have enjoyed the benefits of the unemployment cover. That would have been the main consideration for taking PPI out anyway.

Whatever, they say, if they received the application, properly considered it, they would have realised it didn't give cover as promised and as such they have failed in due diligence to ensure the contract was right for me.

Apart from that, I cannot remember receiving a set of Terms and Conditions following the sale and they haven't sent a copy of any, nor indeed the copy of the application on a SAR. All they sent was a full set of statements.

I'm waiting a response to that complaint.

[felixflyer]

Thanks guys. They have it is their final word on the matter so I will send it to the FOS.

 

Regards

[Lynnzer]

Thanks guys. They have it is their final word on the matter so I will send it to the FOS.

 

Regards

No. They have told me (2 of some other banks) that they had given their final word. I responded with the further details and they paid out.

Just draft up a letter making some of the extra points raised on the from as regards why the PPI wasn't suitable for you, and send it off to them again.

It's going to be a damn sight quicker than going through the ombudsman.:

Include something like this:

As some of the relevant documentation seems to be missing in respect of copies of Terms and Conditions sent by post (if any actually were) then I can only presume you do not hold them, or have found that they will not be helpful in your denial of my claim.

 

As it is, you have already admitted that due to my employment status at the time of the agreement, I would not have been able to make a claim under certain conditions applicable to my employment. Since unemployment cover would have been a major part of any consideration for the policy sold to me, it would therefore be unlikely I would have knowingly accepted a policy which excluded it.

Given the fact that each application is different there is an obligation of due diligence on you to check that the details are consistent with customer requirements as well as to see if the application meets your own stringent requirements of acceptance.

As such, in this particular case, this requirement has not been forthcoming as you should, at least, have informed me that the cover would not be of any use for an important part of the policy.

The Ombudsman has already found in past cases that even if a box has been ticked, does not exclude any potential of the mis-selling of a policy. This could be particularly upheld since it should have been apparent that the policy was not suited to me due to the nature of my employment status.

I ask that you give final reconsideration to my claim before I progress it to the Ombudsman in which case I would expect all the items and documentation requested in my SAR.

You can include the bit about the conflict of dates if you want. Just make sure as far as possible what's happened there first.

Look through the statements and see when the PPI payments started so you can at what stage you added it onto the package.

[felixflyer]

The thing is I was employed at the time I took it out. This was when I took out the card in 1995. In 2001 I starting working as a contractor but I wasn't aware that I would not be covered.