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    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

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PCN & Confero Bailiffs were taking car - paid up, he ignored TEC appeal TE7 & TE9 - want money back - help!!


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ha ha ha, got a letter today from Chelmsford County Court, where Confero's "Rent-A-Thug" is registered, and the Judge wants me to complete a Form 4...

 

I suspect its because I fired off a letter asking if the Court had issued the bailiff with a clamping order and if they had authorised him to recover his costs/fees.

 

Obviously, its a tricky thing, so I sent another letter off asking if I'll be liable for any further financial burdens or legal action if I complete and submit the form, so I'll wait for their response - this flys in the face of current thinking as the bailiff is under the belief that if I complain then he will consider me 'litigious' and pursue a claim for defamation and seek damages.

 

Are they having a laugh...

 

tomtubby - cheers I'll check now and get right back to you

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Sounds to me as if the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court is well p:censored:d-off with Confero's "Rent-A-Thug". If "Rent-A-Thug" claimed he had a clamping order or clamped your vehicle without lawful authority, i.e. he had no right in law to do so, he could lose his certificate and bond, if he's lucky. If not, he could face prosecution, jail and loss of his certificate and bond. In the words of Capt. Mainwaring, "Stupid boy."

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"this flys in the face of current thinking as the bailiff is under the belief that if I complain then he will consider me 'litigious' and pursue a claim for defamation and seek damages." Unlawful Distress (and that can just be excess charges) means that it is you that has the claim for damages !

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Alchemy,

 

If you have been asked by the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court to complete a Form 4, it is clearly evident that the judge has concerns about the conduct of "Rent-A-Thug". I feel you are wise to approach the court and enquire about any risk of an adverse costs order, but it sounds like the only person who will be worrying about an adverse costs order is "Rent-A-Thug". Like I have said in Post #28, "Rent-A-Thug" could face forfeiture of his certificate and bond, if he's lucky. The fact that you approached the court to confirm whether he had lawful authority to do what he did could well mean the District Judge has him down for an early crucifixion.

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Looks like this judge will not let the bailiff turn an enquiry as to his fitness as litigation and land complainant with loadsa fees imho

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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OB, I thought you'd say that, so I've replied to that effect -

 

"With regards to the Judge requesting that I complete a Form 4, I am somewhat ambivalent in doing so because in the last correspondence I received from the bailiff (Confero Collections Ltd.) it is intimated that should I consider making a formal complaint about his alleged behaviour then he will have no recourse but to vigoursly, and with the full weight of the law, pursue legal action to defend his good character and business practices; which will result in him seeking an award of compensation/damages for the false and litigious allegationse brought against him. Therefore, in light of what he has written can you please confirm (in writing) that I will not incurr any further legal/financial expense if I should complete this Form4 (which has been issued at your request) and that the actions of Confero Collections Ltd. would be unlawful and unwarranted in threatening to pursue further litigious and malicious action against me; should I submit a complaint against them."

 

I'll be interested to read their reply...

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Having read your post, Alchemy, I think it more likely that "Rent-A-Thug" will have his certificate withdrawn and forfeit his bond now it has come out into the open the lengths he is prepared to go to in order to conceal his unlawful and illegal behaviour. What he and Confero Collections have done, by sending you a letter, written in such terms, is commit an offence under Section 1, Malicious Communications Act 1988. Not only that, falsely claiming to be acting under the authority of a court, as "Rent-A-Thug" did by claiming he had a clamping order, when he didn't, is an indictable offence under Section 135, County Courts Act 1984. It carries a maximum penalty of 7 years' imprisonment. He could also face a charge of Blackmail (Section 21, Theft Act 1968). Enquire with the court whether they intend to summon the managing director of Confero Collections Ltd to appear in front of the court and explain their threatening letter.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I found this very interesting as I am having a problem with a local authority re PCNs as well as bailiff fees. Should Alchemy6 not be taking the local authority to court and not the bailiff? The LA are responsible for the bailiff's actions surely?

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I found this very interesting as I am having a problem with a local authority re PCNs as well as bailiff fees. Should Alchemy6 not be taking the local authority to court and not the bailiff? The LA are responsible for the bailiff's actions surely?

 

Although the local authority is 100% vicariously-liable under Civil Law, any criminal offences are the responsibility of the person and/or company who commits those offences. The local authority is liable for civil damages. All fines and compensation orders imposed by a criminal court have to be met by the defendant and, in the case of a company, its directors, secretary, officers and managers. Company funds must not be used to indemnify them or corrupt employees.

 

In Alchemy6's case, the District Judge at Chelmsford County Court requested Alchemy6 to submit a Form 4. The bailiff had claimed he had a clamping order and to recovers his fees. This was clearly untrue. Falsely claiming to be acting under the authority of a court is a criminal offence under Section 135, County Court Act 1984 and carries a maximum penalty, on conviction, of up to seven years' imprisonment.

Edited by old bill
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Old Bill,

are 'erroneous' fee charges criminal, as in bailiffs charging more than they are allowed to?

 

Technically speaking, yes, they are. It is an offence under Section 2, Fraud Act 2006 to defraud or attempt to defraud another by making a false misrepresentation as to a matter of fact or law, whether deliberately or recklessly, with a view to make a gain for oneself or that of another, or to cause loss to another or expose another to loss or the risk of loss.

 

A company can be prosecuted for the same offence under Section 12 of the Act and so can its directors, secretary, officers and managers.

 

The reason for this is because bailiff's fees for enforcement of PCNs are set and regulated by statute.

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Thanks for your reply. How/where does one go after a bailiff for doing that?

 

Usually, the police would deal with fraud offences. However, because police officers do not cover bailiff law during their training and have been mislead by bailiffs so much, they regard it as a civil matter.

 

If you are being hassled to pay unlawful fees, work out which fees are lawfully payable, tell the bailiff and his bailiff company and attach or enclose the relevant legislation with any correspondence/email. They cannot argue with what the law lays down. Copy to the local authority. Tell the local authority to drop the unlawful fees or the matter will be escalated to the LGO or Department for Communities and Local Government.

 

If you have already paid unlawful fees to the bailiffs, your best bet is to pursue them through the Small Claims Court. Neither a bailiff or bailiff company can risk a CCJ against their name, as a bailiff would have their certificate revoked and forfeit their bond and the bailiff company would be put into compulsory liquidation, that is, closed down.

 

However, be warned that bailiffs and bailiff companies served with Smalls Claims proceedings tend to make 11th Hour settlements, usually, the day before the hearing or just as the case is about to be heard. This tends to wind-up the Registrar of the court as the bailiff and bailiff company are wasting the Registrar's and the court's time, as well as your time. Some Registrars take a very dim view of this practice and let the defendants know of this in no uncertain terms.

 

If the bailiff company has an OFT licence, this should be reported to OFT Credit Fitness Team and Trading Standards. Write to the Court Manager at the county court that issued the bailiff's certificate, marking the letter FORMAL COMPLAINT, and see if you are asked to submit a Form 4 complaint. Under no circumstances submit a Form 4 complaint blindly.

Edited by old bill
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I hope Alchemy6 has indeed submitted that Form 4 as if the criminal nature of the bailiffs behaviour is aired in front of a judge, it may mean more than loss of certificate and bond down the line.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Alchemy,

 

In view of the threatening nature of the letter you received from Confero, I would photocopy and send to the Court Manager, copied to the District Judge, enquiring as to whether they wish you to complete the Form 4 as requested or whether it is felt other proceedings are more appropriate.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Usually, the police would deal with fraud offences. However, because police officers do not cover bailiff law during their training and have been mislead by bailiffs so much, they regard it as a civil matter.

 

If you are being hassled to pay unlawful fees, work out which fees are lawfully payable, tell the bailiff and his bailiff company and attach or enclose the relevant legislation with any correspondence/email. They cannot argue with what the law lays down. Copy to the local authority. Tell the local authority to drop the unlawful fees or the matter will be escalated to the LGO or Department for Communities and Local Government.

 

If you have already paid unlawful fees to the bailiffs, your best bet is to pursue them through the Small Claims Court. Neither a bailiff or bailiff company can risk a CCJ against their name, as a bailiff would have their certificate revoked and forfeit their bond and the bailiff company would be put into compulsory liquidation, that is, closed down.

 

However, be warned that bailiffs and bailiff companies served with Smalls Claims proceedings tend to make 11th Hour settlements, usually, the day before the hearing or just as the case is about to be heard. This tends to wind-up the Registrar of the court as the bailiff and bailiff company are wasting the Registrar's and the court's time, as well as your time. Some Registrars take a very dim view of this practice and let the defendants know of this in no uncertain terms.

 

If the bailiff company has an OFT licence, this should be reported to OFT Credit Fitness Team and Trading Standards. Write to the Court Manager at the county court that issued the bailiff's certificate, marking the letter FORMAL COMPLAINT, and see if you are asked to submit a Form 4 complaint. Under no circumstances submit a Form 4 complaint blindly.

 

How do you find out the country court that issued the bailiff's certificate? And does one report separately to the OFT?

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How do you find out the country court that issued the bailiff's certificate? And does one report separately to the OFT?

 

Go to http://www.justice.gov.uk for the Certificated Bailiff Register. To report a bailiff company to the OFT send an complaint by email to [email protected] and insert CREDIT FITNESS in the subject box. Give a clear and concise resume of your complaint. It helps if you include the name of the bailiff company and their CCA Licence Number.

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