vehicle surrender

[nyvian]

Hi Guys,

Hoping you can help.

 

I bought a car on finance through a trader

(the trader it turned out was not a ethical as he should have been! and no longer as far as I know in business)

 

who arranged the money from Lombard the amount £27k over 5 years. That was Dec 2006,

 

The money was paid into the traders account and he set up the credit agreement. £575 p.m.

 

The credit crunch hit my small business hard in 2008/2009 & I couldn't afford the payments so I told them to collect it that was June 2009.

which meant I had the car for 30months when I asked them to take it back.

 

They arrived & took the car back.

 

I wrote to them in July 2009 asking them to let me know what they had sold the car for and how many payments I'd made & I'd make up the shortfall to the £27k borrowed

and to please respond in 30 days. They never responded.

 

2 & half years later I received a letter from the Land Registry stating Lombard wanted to put a charge on my house for £14,450!!

and the acting solicitors were Shoosmiths & I was to appear in court 2 July at 3pm to contest it.

 

On advice from a friend I rang Lombard and asked them to send me a copy of the agreement,

the copy I received was very poor & some of it not clear.

 

However I rang Lombard and asked for the amounts of monies I had actually paid to them,

at first they said £12,450 and they sold the car for £10,500 I said thats only £4050 I owe Lombard

and if they unroll back the 30months of interest I won't owe that much,

they then refused to speak to me saying to ring Shoosmiths which I did,

 

I asked the same questions about the monies I had repaid they replied £24,800 in all,l

 

I mentioned they sold the car for £10,500 so how can I own them £14,500!

 

I am & have been in financial difficulty since 2009 and have put my debts in debt management.

 

Today 2 july when I was to appear in court with Lombard Shoosmiths rang to say the case had been postponed.

 

I believe there is a law which says I can give back the car half way through the agreement?

 

Also as they never responded to my July 2009 letter

 

can I make a claim for equal liablity?

[Surfer01]

Are you sure the case was postponed? Did you check with the court to verify the postponement? Don't trust a lawyer or solicitor!

[raydetinu]

as the loan was taken out before April 2008, it would not be regulated by CCA as over 25k.

So the 50% rule does not apply.

I would also check with the court about the date/postponment etc.

You should also ask court for the papers they have filed etc. and detailed argument so you can have time to respond effectively.

[Surfer01]

as the loan was taken out before April 2008, it would not be regulated by CCA as over 25k.

So the 50% rule does not apply.

I would also check with the court about the date/postponment etc.

You should also ask court for the papers they have filed etc. and detailed argument so you can have time to respond effectively.

Well spotted, but where does that leave the OP as to all intents and purposes this would have been a loan or lease and not on HP?

[raydetinu]

Normal contract law, I believe.

IMO the OP should of chased the Loan co. sooner to sort out, these things do no go away.

What dont quite understand is that know your address as they are trying to put a charge on it, but have not contacted you to try and sort out before this court action.

That is one point I would raise in court, that they have not done anything to resolve prior to this action.

Anyway you need all the documents so you see what has gone on.

You could try a SAR, but that may take a bit of time; see what they disclose to you.

[nyvian]

Thanks for that.

Isn't it sad though when our "peers" the so called law would want to cheat us.

 

However I only checked after I spoke to Citizens advice.

Thanks anyway.

Do now think the company got it's figures wrong

I DID pay them back £24.800 and they sold the car for £10500.

 

Any advice on how to sue them for not responding to my letter July 2009 asking them to verify that they were satisified within 30 days?

 

Really angry now/

[raydetinu]

IMO wait until you get the info. so you can have your say in court!

At that time you can put in a claim for your costs etc. if you win.

And possible compensation if you have actually overpaid!

[nyvian]

Thank you for that. Will do.

[nyvian]

Hi I found where to do a new post!!! So now that I have found it can stu287 elaborate when he said if one has a "car lease purchase agreement that the company shouldn't have repossessed their car even with their blessing & That it was illegal & they broke the law"......

would u please elaborate. My husbands story is like that persons he purchased a luxury car in 2006 through a car dealer who's now in jail!!! for £27k the deal was over 60 months (finance from Lombard) the premium paid was £575 pm with £2k down. When his (hubby) business started to suffer in 2009 he told them (lombard) he couldn't afford it so they came & took the car and sold it for £10,500. He had already made £12,500 payments within 30 months NO WORD was heard from Lombard for 2.5 yrs. Until a letter arrived stating they wanted to put a charge on our house because he owed them £14k!! & the court day was July. I sent them your letter stating that we couldn't allow a unsecured loan to become a secured one. It didn't seem to work, however they cancelled the court day ON THE DAY, we rang them to ask how come we owe so much & asked for a complete breakdown of payments apparently monies paid back inc the car sale achieved £24,800. so surely we only owe the difference? Also I read the difference between pcp lease etc & normally there is a BALLOON payment at the end, the contract doesn't mention that, also if these kind of lease are usually for businesses why is it in MY HUSBANDS OWN name & not his business name? Anyone help with this. MUCH OBLIGED for any advice.

Forgive any spelling mistakes as when I this wound up I can't think let along type................

[ims21]

Thread moved to correct forum

[nyvian]

What is the correct forum? I clicked on vehicle repossession!! I see people looking but don't know where to go!!! thanks for help.

[ims21]

This is now your thread....wait for replies when the guys who can help come along

[nyvian]

Hi I'm hoping someone can help. My husband, through a "dealer" arranged finance from Lombard for a car he wished to buy from Mercedes In Leicester, The money (we think, checking at the moment!) was paid directly into the dealers business! The car was to be picked up from Mercedes on a appointed day, but it wasn't possible as the dealer hadn't paid Mercedes any money! My husband was told by the dealer "it's mearly a glitch" I'll sort it!!

Some time later appx 5 weeks the dealer gave him a contract to sign, my husband is not up on Lease hire , Purchase lease hire, or Purchase hire, or indeed any Lease anything(!) So he was given the contract without ever understanding or being told what he was signing, no checks were made to see if the contract was the one most suitable to his financial needs, and no explainations as to what he was signing, but because he trusted the dealer just "signed on the dotted line for a total amount of £29,200 the figure on the contract with the box "fixed" term ticked, no interest figure shown either! A £2000 deposit was paid leaving a balance of £27,200 that was in 2006.

He repaid 21 months of the 60 month contract @ £565 p.m =£11,865. And in June 2009 (due to circumstances beyond his control)he could no longer afford to pay for the car he contacted someone to come & take the car away. The dealer wasn't in business any longer as he was in prison serving time for "misdealings".

 

After the car was voluntary returned my husband never heard from anyone not Lombard or anyone else as to who sold the car or what it had sold for. He assumed the car must have sold for the value that paid off the £27,200. In Nov 2011 a letter from Lombard solicitor "Shoosmiths" stating they acting of behalf of Lombard had applied to the court & were going to put a charge on my house until £14,039. was paid in full! Why that amount? ( I think they deliberately waited that long to get maximum charges) The hearing was to be 21 July then postponed it when we asked why they wouldn't give a reason.

It was only then we learned the car had been sold for £10,500.865 Now the £11,865 + £10,500 = £22,365 & shortfall of

£4635. And he gave them the car back 30 months before end of contract as agreed by them. Why £14 039.?

He contacted the solicitor & Lombard sending them a letter from your library stating we could not allow a unsecured loan to become a secured loan and as he had other creditors he wouldn't allow them preferential status! They seem to have ignored those letters twice! We also sent for a complete list of payments made which arrived, from their solicitor but was so crudely done, just a list of D/D. And charged to dispose of the car. Very unprofessional a4 paper, no arrears column, no D/D column. Why did they not send a computer printout of all payments and any defaults & interest charged and any arrears!

 

Isn't there a law somewhere that states the lender must be responsible and not appear to make charges which would benefit the company only( excuse my lack!) Also I saw somewhere on your site there was a law that any documents signed before 2007 may not be enforceable? Can someone claim "diminished responsibility" at the time of signing or show that they didn't know what they were signing due to all sorts of pressure, or that the dodgy dealer was doing this type of contract for his own benefit?

 

The dealer by the way is just out of prison. And my husband is due to go to court on the 12 Sept. I as the wife cannot allow them to get hold of what would be his share of any equity as he in a document which he signed his share over to me & was witnessed by a professional person for monies I gave him to invest into his business when he was goig through a rough patch in 2008/9/10. The house is in negative equity & has subsidence ( insurance co's are aware) can this get any worst what happens next, I'm beside myself with worry.

 

Thanks for any help.

P.S the video on " where to post is the best thing for me & has answered my questions" Thanks

Nyvian

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to appropriate Forum.

 

nyvian, I have merged your three threads on this subject, please continue to post here with regards to this issue.

 

Thanks,

 

Scott.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

What about the 5 years' worth of interest on the 27K you borrowed?

[raydetinu]

Yep there will be interest due, which has bumbed up the amount owed. ( you could argue that this should have been frozen at the time the car was taken back ), as no agreement or payback schedule agreed.

You need to go to court and defend at least to get all the info. amounts etc.

Judge will ask for this anyway.

Have you requested this of Lombard in writing!

A charge on your property means you cannot sell it without paying off the debt, or the debt is paid out the proceeds of any sale. ( lodged with Land registry).

This will be normal contract law and not protected at the time by the consumer credit act, which for a time could be challenged if they could not produce a signed copy of the original CCA agreement, however this does not apply in your case as it was outside of the scope of the CCA and the the rules on challenging them has been made more difficult now.

When is court hearing?

[nyvian]

Just spent 1hr. writing about the weirdness on this case, and I hit some bloody button accidently & lost the lot!( GAWD help me this awful laptop) 12th Sept due in court. Will rewrite the entire dodgy dealings so you can see why it's dodgy. Tomorrow good night

[nyvian]

Just to bring "vehicle surrender" up t date. Got the requested "copy" of contract( x2!) with so-called witness signature. It cannot be a "copy of original" otherwise tlhe witness signature would be the same, or at least the same handwriting, it clearly does not, it doesn't even have the same NAME! Also a solicitor who has looked at my so-called signature on the so-called original & states it's a copy from another source! So I went to court on the 13th. with "some" (as I don't want to show my hand just yet) evidence & to have the charge on my house set-aside. The solicitor Lombards sent was very unsure of herself stating "lombard" only want to secure their loan money! I told the Judge I had never set foot on the "so-called dealers premises so how could I have signed a document" & the only contract I signed was under a dealer that has just served 18 months (from 3 yr. sentence) for fraud. I also got a copy of the original invoice from Mercedes & it doesn't state the "so-called dealer" but the ex-cons business is listed as the dealer.I then approached Lombard & insisted they never contacted me as they said they had done, & I didnt know I owed them anything as I believed the car being sold & the payment I made would have covered the loan. I then received a letter from Shoosmiths(their solicitor) stating they had used Link Financial to try to obtain the money in Dec 2009. !Q. why would any co. use a debt collector to obtain money when they never contacted us to say we owed it especially as the car only sold in Oct 2009, only 2 months later they put it in the hands of a debt collector, without ever trying to contact us to get it back for themselves!!! 2.I rang Link on the 12th Sept 2012 & asked them to verify us as being on their data base giving them name & post codes. The person checked twice & said you are NOT on our data base. I asked them to send me that information in writing, she said send an email & they will respond. I have now sent 3 emails to the addresses given & they have all bounced back. I've rung them to get a valid email but meeting with very aggressive male reps. I then sent an email to Shoosmiths stating Lombard should not have sold my debt to Link Financial & having done so were breaking the d.p.c. Shoosmiths latest email states "Lombard didn't sell your debt to Link meerly asked them to act on their behalf" and yet Link have no knowledge of me!! Next step I'm meeting with the so-called company I'm supposed to have signed the contract with. Does this look Lombard were willing to accept a forged document & 2 forged witnesses?. Does this look like I might get it thrown out all together. I must send ALL evidence to court within the next 16 days. Any ideas to help?

Thanks muchley

N

[nyvian]

Vehicle repossession: Just to let you know whats happening the strangest of things. I applied to Lombard for the signed original contract. It arrived with whats proported to be my signature & a "witness" signature with the name of a dealer I never knew or seen L.B.M, it is a forgery! I asked Lombard for a computer printout of all payments arrears etc. a piece of A4 paper arrived with a very unprofessional listings, no dates or printout! weird!. So I applied for all SIGNED paperwork, & ANOTHER contract arrived with the same forged signature but this time the witness has changed names, How can it be that a ORIGINAL can have two different names? Also the name of the dealer listed on the so-called contract L.B.M has never seen me before or heard of me, so how can the contract be signed on his business premises with his guys as witnesses? I went to court in Sept & asked for the charge to be set aside, I now have to produce evidence as to why it should be set aside. And I want to prove I never signed a contract with Lombard. My only paperwork was with F.L.T.D Who went to prison for fraud!! How can I be held to Lombard T/C if I never saw a contract until july 2012, with a name of a dealer I never met or know. I was always asking TFLTD for a copy but it never arrived then I heard he was in prison. I also learned LBM has arranged other finance for FLTD previously & was in danger of being taken to court for £200k through their dealing with FLTD. His solicitor told him to close a part of is company that didn't have much to offer so they closed LBM LTD to stop Lombard from getting their hands on LBM money! In the solicitors letter to me it also states Lombard used a debt collecting agency called Link Financial to try to get money from me. I wonder why a company like Lombard would use a debt collector to get money after only 1 month & before they tried themselves? They said they sent a shortfall letter in NOV 2009 they sold the car for £10,500 one month after I surrendered it. I have never heard of them, so I rang them gave them by name & p/c as asked by the rep, she said we have no record of ever doing any business with you as a debtor or otherwise!! Why would Lombard lie? The invoice I obtained from Mercedes states the car was sold to F.L.T.D & not me. Lombards solicitors letter also says "they" repossessed the car.......They didn't I surrendered it! the calculations are also out they're trying to say in Nov 2009 I owed them £11,500. I repaid £11,865 they sold it for £10,500 = £22,365appx. I only knew how much it sold for when all of this happened, they never contacted me whatsoever, I honestly thought the money they sold the car for settled the debt & thats why I never heard from them in 30 months, until Nov 2011. How could I owe them over £14k even if the contracts were not forgeries. So now I'm getting my defence together & it has to be in in 10 days. Any advice on this new information & forged paperwork? Totally grateful as usual. Please forgive if info duplicated but I don't get to get on often enough.

 

Much thanks

Nyvian

[Surfer01]

Your best bet is to send a SAR asking for all paperwork associated including emails and also any transcripts of any phone calls regarding the account. That should show everything and only costs £10. I incorrectly assumed that you would have done this some time back.

[sequenci]

A SAR is absolutely the thing to do next.

[nyvian]

We asked 3 times for all paperwork signed or unsigned paperwork and proof of any form of communication...........they said they didn't need to provide it. we have sent the £10 for such items but I feel more important than that is the fact we didn't sign any contract under a dealer called L.B.M. The invoice for the car from mercedes is in the name of F.L.T.D delivered to F.L.T.D Ever the so-called identity verification is also not my hubby's! Are these facts not valid enough? Also why didn't they call part us to tell us of the sale of the car & any outstanding balances? The man who was jailed for his unethical business practices, does the L.B.M have a C.C.L to be able to allow other dealers to put finance through their business.I doubt if L.B.M done these deals for nothing?

There was no phone calls to us from Lombard, no emails to communication what so ever. When they took the car they NEVER gave my husband the paperwork they're supposed to. My husband to to several car dealers and asked if they "borrowed" money from a finance co to pass to another dealer, they said sounds dodgey! I read lots of the letters on your site only to find too many dealers are getting away with blue murder when it comes to car finance. Some people are not even shown the contracts, isn't that strange?

[Surfer01]

They are under no obligation to supply anything on a request, but a SAR is a legal requirement and everything requested has to be supplied.

[nyvian]

Thank you for that, but when I applied to Santander for the SAR in July I still haven't received it. I think the big guys will always try to bend the rules, I'm just waiting to see if it arrives in Sept. And now I'm waiting to see how long it takes Lombard. Also concernng vehicle Surrender: Rang Trading standards to ask if the CO. LBM who hold a CCL can get finance for others companies awaiting a reply. Rang Citizens advice they saif they'd get onto Trading standards, rang OFT they said it wasn't something they deal with go to Trading sandards. Awaiting T.S call, also advised by C.A to go to Ombudsman & use the advice given to build defence. But I have to say got more straight talking help from u guys so far.

Huge thanks.

Nyvian

[nyvian]

hi again, please explain this

:Send this request including the £10 fee to the address which your data holder has registered with the Data Protection Commissioner as the address of the Data Controller:-

Information Commissioners - Data Protection Public Register

(new address: Information Commissioners - Data Protection Public Register)

I'm afraid I'm completely in the dark as to whom this might be, do you mean Lombard, who is my "dataholder"

regards

Nyvian