Equality act and morrisons supermarket

[LEEDSMODUS]

Tonight I went to the store to purchase a crate of 24 cans of lager and a few other bits and bobs. I am disabled but walk without aid but abhiet cannot walk far nor carry heavy stuff.

 

Because my daughter is 17 i carried the beer and went to the till, self service

 

I got refused sale because someone under 18 was with me

 

I complained to management whom said because I had a teenager with me they would not serve alcohol. Their policy. I explained it was my daughter, I am disabled offered proof of disability and to look in the disabled spaces for my car and to ring my partner, daughters mum to verify, They were not interested

 

I am appauled i cannot buy a bank holiday tipple if my kids are with me, i have an 8 year old son and 17 year daughter and they say if my 17 yr old is with me they wont serve me beer

 

I said to the manager your discriminating against me, he actually said he may well be but he is not interested he is only going on the facts that i have a 17 year old female with me. I am 39 by the way

 

Do i have grounds to sue his backside off or morrisons for this treatment, or am i best going into the store tomorrow and accidently knocking over a stand of wine , remember i am disabled

[Sidewinder]

Do i have grounds to sue his backside off or morrisons for this treatment, or am i best going into the store tomorrow and accidently knocking over a stand of wine , remember i am disabled

 

Sue them? What for? I'm afraid that the risk of losing their alcohol licence far outweighs any need to allow a minor to assist with buying beer. I certainly wouldn't advise damaging stock in retaliation either. Your 'remember I am disabled' quote I'm afraid I find a little distasteful.

 

I have to say that the tone of your post almost suggests that this is a wind up, but to give the benefit of the doubt...

 

Retail stores are under HUGE pressure, quite rightly, to act in such a way that they are not risking any breach of their licencing conditions. Their actions in this case seem perfectly in order, as they are required to demonstrate an awareness that those over the age of 18 may often collude with minors in purchasing alcohol which may be wholly or in part for consumption by the minor - and very often this involves parents buying alcohol for their children! For that reason, unless ALL parties are able to prove that they are over 18, even where only one person is buying alcohol, the store is entitled to, and rightly should, refuse the sale.

 

There may be a clear exception to this where the child is obviously not the intended recipient of the purchase - so a parent with a toddler for example might be able to buy drink, but with a teenager, I'm afraid it's a no-brainer, irrespective of any disability. That's just the way it is.

 

Of course there would be nothing to stop you entering a store on your own, advising a member of staff of your disability and request for somebody to help you to carry your purchase to the car. I'm sure they would be delighted to assist. Far better that than to get into an argument that you can't win.

[LEEDSMODUS]

No it is not a wind up and I am complaining to morrisons.

My daughter which I had proof, so what they are saying is anyone does a family shop then if one of your teenager kids is with you then one cannot buy alcohol.

 

They had no evidence or grounds to refuse sale on the basis it maybe for a minor. My child for heavens sake. Anyway if my 17 year old daughter wants to consume one of my cans in my house then it is not illegal. But I had the beer and I stated i was paying via my credit card.

[LEEDSMODUS]

The manager was grinning and even admitted jokingly he was discriminating against me whilst disabled. I asked him if he was and he said yes. Grinning away like a jumped up idiot. I had proof that it was my kid with me and I even offered him my number to ring the missus. I am not letting this lie I am afraid I have been discriminated against because i seek help from my kids to help me shop.

[Nystagmite]

Do i have grounds to sue his backside off or morrisons for this treatment, or am i best going into the store tomorrow and accidently knocking over a stand of wine

 

Sue for what? You've not lost any money.

[Sidewinder]

Whilst you can complain about his grinning or dismissive attitude and in the manager not explaining the policy in a way that you can understand, you simply can't make a case that this is discrimination - the rules apply to everybody irrespective of disability! I am not disabled, but I would not be allowed to buy alcohol if I was accompanied by minor.

 

Your complaint is with the licensing authority, NOT with the retailer. The store cannot bend the rules for the sake of disability - that would require the LA implementing a clause which exempted the disabled from the rules which apply to others!

 

It matters not that you could prove that the child is your daughter. It matters not that you are disabled (in this case). It doesn't matter if your missus, the Queen or His Holiness the Pope could vouch for the fact that this was your daughter - you cannot prove that your daughter was not going to consume some of the alcohol which you were buying.

 

If you buy drink, take it home and then give it to the child, that is lawful. A retailer cannot though knowingly sell alcohol where it might be for the benefit of a child. Trading Standards routinely make test purchases in circumstances precisely the way that you have described, and stores have had licences suspended, fines imposed and worse.

[assisted blonde]

The store were totally correct in refusing to serve you as you could have been buying alcohol for your 17 year old to take to a party if nothing else. Alcohol licences are strictly controlled and it is the person serving you not the store who would be fined had there been an infringemnet. as most shop workers are not highly paid why should they risk their salary just so you can have a drink?

[Nystagmite]

It's not discrimination if it can be justified.

[abc123def]

It's not discrimination, they are not treating you any less favourably than a non-disabled person, they were treating you as they do all adults accompanied by a minor and according to the law. It is possible that the manager had an attitude problem which you can complain about but not sue for, or it could be that s/he were reacting to your attitude, if so then that wasn't professional of them either but is not a suing matter.

[Heidi Rees]

I feel it is wrong to be refused when it is your child with you! I often buy a bottle of wine whilst doing my shop and my children are always with me (my oldest is 7) does this mean when my son is a teenager I will suddenly be refused? My eldest has autism and it is likely he will still be shopping with me when he is much older as he is hard work and no one will look after him for me! As far as buying alcohol for your children the people who do that are much more likely to go without them! I don't see the harm in letting a seventeen year old have a small drink, my mother used to leave me have a half or 2 when I was under her supervision and it didn't do me any harm - infact it taught me to drink responsibly whilst with someone responsible whilst all my friends were stealing liquor from their parents and drinking it under a local bridge - which is very dangerous! As far as sueing goes I don't think that would be appropriate but I would demand a letter of apology simply for belittleing you infront of your child, How are we supposed to command respect from our offspring when we are belittled by shop staff - as they say the customer is always right x

[Nystagmite]

I look younger than my age. I was with a friend last year and we were using a self service till in Sainsburys. Because he wanted to buy alcohol, he got ID'd. A sales assistant came over and just swiped his card with no questions at all.

[assisted blonde]

Regardless of if you think it is right or wrong, the law will penalise the assistant who serves a person under the age of 18, or if they sell alcohol to a person who then supplys it to a minor

Supermarkets are used on a very regualr basis for test purchasing so it is safer to refuse to sell to anyone who either looks too young or is accompanied by a person who looks too young.

It is not the store that gets the fine, it is the sales assistant who is probably working on minimum wage and cannot afford a fine.

If you need to buy alcohol leave your child at home, order it online or get someone else to buy it for you, alcohol is not a necessity so if you are refused service its hardly the end of the world.

Actually in my opinion, the customer is always right, except when they are wrong.

[Heidi Rees]

There was absolutely no proof that the alcohol was for the minor! I am not going to pay £5 delivery when the shop is just down the road and there isn't anyone who can get it for me as the only person who helps me is ME! And as far as leaving the children at home - well I am just astounded, did you even read my comment? My son has a disability and I have another 2 small children my partner works a 60 hour week and I have no other support, so are you telling me to leave my 7, 4 and 2 year old home alone? I think you will find the penalty for this is far worse than buying alcohol for a minor!! And btw when you have to deal with a child with autism all week I think an alcoholic beverage on the weekend is a necessity as its what keeps me sane!

[Nystagmite]

But there's no proof it wasn't for the minor!

[Heidi Rees]

Couldn't believe I was reading that, leave your child at home to buy alcohol what is the world coming to! @ Nystagmite we live in a society where the law states innocent until proven guilty!

[Heidi Rees]

And I believe I am correct in saying that you are lawfully allowed an alcoholic drink when purchasing food in a pub etc from 16!

[mike c]

Hello,

 

Interesting that you advance the supposition that the sales assistant, should they sell alcohol to a minor ( presumably under 18 ) might be charged, convicted and fined.

 

Any case law to support this ?

 

I should have thought that vicarious liability would operate in this respect with the company subject to prosecution, after all a large company is a target worth pursuing as opposed to a humble sales assistant.

 

Thanks...

Edited June 1, 2012 by mike c
spelling

[abc123def]

I worked for Asda up until Xmas 2006 and all cashiers then were charged/fined £80 if they sold alcohol to a minor on each occasion. For a part timer, that could be practically your weekly wage if caught just the once.

 

When the statement said "leave your child at home" they obviously meant a child of the age where the assistant or law enforcer might reasonably believe that you were buying the alcohol for them. So children of that age, can safely be left alone at home.

 

I have a spinal deformity and as such cannot carry heavy things, so I shop online every 2-4 weeks making sure all heavy items are in that shop so I can pop to the shop inbetween times for light things. I shop with Sainsburys and if you spend more than £100 for deliveries on Tues, Wed or Thurs the delivery is free, so maybe if you have a disability yourself or a child with a disability you could take advantage of the free delivery they provide. The Sainsburys drivers are very obliging and bring my shopping in and place it on worktops so I do not have to bend at all, and can lift items one at a time to put away. There should be no barriers to obtaining alcohol should you want it.

 

There is law that says you must not sell alcohol to a minor or to an adult where there is a possibility that they are buying it for a minor and that has to be interpreted by stores as meaning if you are together, how else can a supermarket think it might be for a minor? It is a fact that supermarkets have been fined and have had penalties placed on them when they have sold alcohol to an adult when they were buying it for a child they were with. Supermarkets have penalties such as not being able to sell alcohol for so many hours/days/weeks or have their alcohol licence suspended indefinitely for repeated offences. I can't provide case law as I am not a lawyer, but am someone who worked for Asda and so I do know that this regularly happens to stores and supermarkets. In my town there was facebook uproar this very month as Asda lost its licence for 48 hours and people were frantic with the loss of their alcohol source!

 

If people don't like this law, write to your MP to complain, not the supermarket who are just fulfilling the law.

[abc123def]

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/underagesales/underagesales-alcohol.htm

 

THere is also a tab "law in detail"

[dpick]

Another option is to do what I did after my accident when stuck in a wheelchair for a bit, get an assistant to come round with you to do the lifting and carrying and then load your car.

 

dpick

[Heidi Rees]

Well if that is the law then it is a joke I'm sorry!! I should not be made to do online shopping, I happen to enjoy going to my local supermarket - I have no childcare and see it as a way to socialise as I live in a small town and all the people I know also shop there - I don't feel I should face social isolation to get my 1 bottle of wine a week! As for leaving my children at home then yes maybe the younger 2 when they are at that age, but my AUTISTIC 7 year old may never be able to be left alone as he does not understand the concept of danger! I stated this in my original comment! If the law states that shop workers cannot sell alcohol to anyone with minors accompaying them then where will it stop? Will we not be able to buy tobacco and lotto tickets? Will we be stopped from getting medication from the doctor? They are trying to turn us into a 'what if' society, 'What if' they are buying alcohol for a minor, 'what if' they will give that prescripion medication to their minor. I am sorry but they may as well stop selling it altogether because the next step will be to prove you haven't got any children 'just incase' you give it to them when you get home!! I completely understand them stopping people with minors that are not theirs with them, but there comes a point when you have to trust the responsibility of the minors parent and look at perhaps fining them if caught instead!

[abc123def]

(((Heidi))) do your children go to school? Is it possible to pop to the shop then or are you never able to go to a shop without them? Maybe by the time your children are old enough for this to be an issue they may be in school sometimes when you can access a shop? Maybe then there are ways around it and this may not be an issue? Despite having many friends with their own disabilities and many friends with children with severe disabilties, they have all found ways to comply with the law on this one without much trouble at all.

 

Sometimes when we are angry about something it blinkers us to ways around a problem or to be able to see things in persepctive as your anger discounts all reasonable possibilities, not saying you are doing that, but that that can happen.

[Heidi Rees]

Your right and there probably will be a solution by the time the children are older but situations like this make me furious! What will this country be like in a few years it is no longer innocent until proven guilty everyone is just tarred with the same brush! By the time mine are in their teens I probably won't be allowed a car anyway 'just incase' one of them drives it underage and then I will be forced to internet shop - but of course not alcohol as I have minors living with me!

[Nystagmite]

In your case, I'm surprised that common sense isn't shown. When your child is 5, there is something about allowing them to have alcohol at home?

[Bang!]

Its just lucky they never declined to sell you condoms, and equally ridiculous!

 

I think you are right to feel wronged, and the Jeremy Kyle comments here wrongly vilify you rather than the shop.

 

However, it is pretty trivial. Suing is overkill and unlikely to be viable.

 

Vote with your feet - take your custom elsewhere. If you still feel the need to do something - write to their head office expressing your disability discrimination concerns and the manager's attitude.

 

Asda has 20 cans of John Smith's ES for £14.