Leaving following bullying

[DIZZYHENRY]

Hi, there need some help please. I have been off sick for 7 weeks following a long period of bullying since last year which came to head when my manager left and those doing the bullying became in charge. my sick equates to 14 days off sick as I am part-time (I only do 16 hours a week).

 

I have found a new job out of the blue while off and it is sub to med info and references. My area manager is aware of the bullying and was investigating and seemed supportive. the tone has changed now I have mentioned I need a reference. I was told not to worry and to send to them personally and now they have refused to complete the new employer's reference form and sent a 'standard' company one. I do not know what has been said if anything about sick etc. am concerned the new employer will not be happy their's has not been filled in. I have asked for a copy from my current employer of the ref as I have not handed my notice in yet as I can't as my offer is only conditional. I am worried if I hand my notice in now and it falls through I will be in a state but I really want to leave it all behindl. Because I have been off with work related anxiety I now have to send the new employer's med form to their occupational health. I really feel I should be honest and declare the anxiety but I wanted to start on a fresh footing with a new employer - does my new line manager have to know about this? my job offer is conditional to ref and medical information. They have not asked for a medical ref from my doctor. My present employer said they didn't expect me to work my notice given the problems I have had and its affect on me.. but they have not been clear whether I would be paid for my notice period. When I offer to take holiday they said no - they would pay me separately.... Help!!

[Browncow]

Hi, there need some help please. I have been off sick for 7 weeks following a long period of bullying since last year which came to head when my manager left and those doing the bullying became in charge. my sick equates to 14 days off sick as I am part-time (I only do 16 hours a week).

 

I have found a new job out of the blue while off and it is sub to med info and references. My area manager is aware of the bullying and was investigating and seemed supportive. the tone has changed now I have mentioned I need a reference. I was told not to worry and to send to them personally and now they have refused to complete the new employer's reference form and sent a 'standard' company one. I do not know what has been said if anything about sick etc. am concerned the new employer will not be happy their's has not been filled in. I have asked for a copy from my current employer of the ref as I have not handed my notice in yet as I can't as my offer is only conditional. I am worried if I hand my notice in now and it falls through I will be in a state but I really want to leave it all behindl. Because I have been off with work related anxiety I now have to send the new employer's med form to their occupational health. I really feel I should be honest and declare the anxiety but I wanted to start on a fresh footing with a new employer - does my new line manager have to know about this? my job offer is conditional to ref and medical information. They have not asked for a medical ref from my doctor. My present employer said they didn't expect me to work my notice given the problems I have had and its affect on me.. but they have not been clear whether I would be paid for my notice period. When I offer to take holiday they said no - they would pay me separately.... Help!!

 

How long have you got to submit the reference and med form to new employer? Only a few days I would imagine.

 

In your position Dizzyhenry, I would have a very frank chat with the area manager and I would say

 

"These things happened and you know that they happened but I am willing to forget about it and leave.

 

I think it would be reasonable for you to subtract those 14 sickness absence days from my record as the absence was a direct result of problems at work.

 

I think it reasonable that your provide a fair reference and pay me the standard notice pay.

 

 

If you do not help me to move on, I will have to consider other options such as submitting an ET claim. I had already reported the problems to you and you were investigating them so that would count as my having raised a grievance.

 

I need a very quick decision on this or my new job opportunity will be lost. Your choice!"

[DIZZYHENRY]

The trouble is the ref has already been submitted and I don't know what it says I asked for information and that has not been provided. I told them I wanted a clean break and to move on and now I feel very let down.

[luluspice]

Hi, I was an employee service desk advisor in my last job, I did references all the time and as far as I now the law was changed in October 2010. Here is a link to ACAS booklet http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2833&p=

Your employer can only give a standard reference, i.e dates employed, your job title/role & reason for leaving. The new employer is only entitled to more information from you once the make a job offer. You should let them know you have anxiety issues, regardless of the cause. It protects you and them. for instance if somewhere along the line the job becomes stressful through the employers fault, you had informed them you have an anxiety condition therfore they should not have put you in that postition. just like making you lift something heavy when they knew you had a back problem!!

Your current employer may well be wary that you could take them to a tribunal because of the past bullying & will not say anything against you to add to that possibility. Giving a bad reference can result in them being sued...I have seen it happen when spiteful managers thought they could ruin someones prospects!!

You have a right to see the reference given, ask for it in writing. but I would advise keeping mum about any issues you had at work until they offer you the job, and only ask for a copy of the reference after you start or if you do not get the job - just in case they get suspicious and make up some other reason not to hire you.

Like you I was a victim of bullying which meant I was off work with anxiety for 6 months. you have my sincere sympathies, it is a horrendous position to be in. The bullies got made redundant and after a while I got angry with myself for letting such low lives get the better of me....I kinda got a 'Bring it on' attitude, and I am sorry I never took them to court, but in the end I moved on. hope you will too, don't let the Bu***rs grind you down good luck

[DIZZYHENRY]

Thanks - yes I have had a formal offer but is is conditional upon refs and med form which asks if I have had amongst other detailed questions - anxiety - trouble is it is work related anxiety and I am worried how to explain that.. I passed the interview and tests but the ref they sent to my employer was very detailed and they refused to complete it so have sent their standard one. the new employers automatically refer you to their in house version of occ health if you answer yes to any questions on their med enquiry form.. so I felt I had to say yes..

[Browncow]

Hi, I was an employee service desk advisor in my last job, I did references all the time and as far as I now the law was changed in October 2010. Here is a link to ACAS booklet http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2833&p=

Your employer can only give a standard reference, i.e dates employed, your job title/role & reason for leaving. The new employer is only entitled to more information from you once the make a job offer. You should let them know you have anxiety issues, regardless of the cause. It protects you and them. for instance if somewhere along the line the job becomes stressful through the employers fault, you had informed them you have an anxiety condition therfore they should not have put you in that postition. just like making you lift something heavy when they knew you had a back problem!!

Your current employer may well be wary that you could take them to a tribunal because of the past bullying & will not say anything against you to add to that possibility. Giving a bad reference can result in them being sued...I have seen it happen when spiteful managers thought they could ruin someones prospects!!

You have a right to see the reference given, ask for it in writing. but I would advise keeping mum about any issues you had at work until they offer you the job, and only ask for a copy of the reference after you start or if you do not get the job - just in case they get suspicious and make up some other reason not to hire you.

Like you I was a victim of bullying which meant I was off work with anxiety for 6 months. you have my sincere sympathies, it is a horrendous position to be in. The bullies got made redundant and after a while I got angry with myself for letting such low lives get the better of me....I kinda got a 'Bring it on' attitude, and I am sorry I never took them to court, but in the end I moved on. hope you will too, don't let the Bu***rs grind you down good luck

 

That is good advice.

[luluspice]

You could just say yes to anxiety, N/A. after all you may be a naturally anxious person, and the work issue did not help? They do not have any right to know details unless it means they have to give you time off for counselling or are on meds they need to now about etc. As in the Equality Act definitions or reasonable adjustments. 14 days sickness is nothing to worry about - that's a standard 'Flu' bout! - they really should not be asking anyway, but most employers have not updated their recruitment processes...cost too much! The referal to OC is standard good practice & is Data protected. as is the medical unless they think you have any health issues which will impact on your job or the employer, and that information cannot be given to just anyone

Please do not see the reference as a way for employers to find excuses NOT to employ you, more of a way to make sure they meet your needs as well as theirs. You would not have got this far if they did not want you. Fill it in and lets see what happens, you need to know one way or another before you can move on.

[jackieandwayne]

Browncow that post was brilliant! And Dizzyhenry - if your new job goes belly up because of this, then I suggest you go ahead and do everything Browncow listed. I hope everything turns out how you want it.

[DIZZYHENRY]

Thanks for the helpful comments - I have to put date and reasons - so put anxiety - due to bullying following line manager leaving but I really wanted to start with a clean slate I do have grounds for constructive dismissal but tbh with my line manager no longer operational and not interested - I just want to move on

[luluspice]

Tell them very little on paper. If they want more they can meet with you!

[Browncow]

Browncow that post was brilliant! And Dizzyhenry - if your new job goes belly up because of this, then I suggest you go ahead and do everything Browncow listed. I hope everything turns out how you want it.

 

I think that Luluspice did the really good post.

[jackieandwayne]

Oh yes, all good posts, but you're the one who made me screech with laughter whilst having a mouth ful of hot tea!

"These things happened and you know that they happened but I am willing to forget about it and leave.

 

I think it would be reasonable for you to subtract those 14 sickness absence days from my record as the absence was a direct result of problems at work.

 

I think it reasonable that your provide a fair reference and pay me the standard notice pay.

 

 

If you do not help me to move on, I will have to consider other options such as submitting an ET claim. I had already reported the problems to you and you were investigating them so that would count as my having raised a grievance.

 

I need a very quick decision on this or my new job opportunity will be lost. Your choice!"

[luluspice]

Yeah go for it!! Even if you cannot face them put it in writing! I'm not a naturally assertive person...except when riled, even then I usually think of the things I should have said AFTER the matter. My employers did not give anything more than a standard ref...yet sent out the ones like you have asking for too much info Right hand & Left hand etc???? Right now I'm fighting cancer, and after what the bullying did to me I'm no pushover anymore!!

Good luck with the new job:-D

[DIZZYHENRY]

I sent the form off will let you know if the offer is formalised.. very worried. still nothing I can do. Yes my employer asks for lots of information too. I have never h ad a standard ref before always had really nice personal ones..

[Browncow]

I sent the form off will let you know if the offer is formalised.. very worried. still nothing I can do. Yes my employer asks for lots of information too. I have never h ad a standard ref before always had really nice personal ones..

 

Fingers crossed DIZZYHENRY:wink:

[DIZZYHENRY]

Well contracts are being prepared so I am nearly there, except I met the new team and they were very negative, now i am worried I am going into a lions den again... why can't life be simple. Also they want me to start some training prior to my contract start date - normally once you start training that's when your contract starts. I have looked at my current contract and I am not allowed to do other work during my notice period.. It would seem there is an anticipation that I will do quite a bit of overtime but that's not forming part of my contract so I don't accrue holiday on that nor does it go into my pension. Current work have adopted a 'no blame' approach to me and had a letter inviting me to meet the bullies to clear things up !

[Browncow]

Well contracts are being prepared so I am nearly there, except I met the new team and they were very negative, now i am worried I am going into a lions den again... why can't life be simple. Also they want me to start some training prior to my contract start date - normally once you start training that's when your contract starts. I have looked at my current contract and I am not allowed to do other work during my notice period.. It would seem there is an anticipation that I will do quite a bit of overtime but that's not forming part of my contract so I don't accrue holiday on that nor does it go into my pension. Current work have adopted a 'no blame' approach to me and had a letter inviting me to meet the bullies to clear things up !

 

Well there are a few issues here DIZZYHENRY.

 

 

1. Are you happy with the "no blame" approach? After all you are leaving because the situation was not satisfactoruly resolved.

2.Training prior to the start of the contract is a bit awkward. Is there any element of assessment during the training that could result in the offer being withdrawn?

3. Are you up to doing loads of overtime?

 

I think you have to get a clear idea of what is acceptable to you and state your preferences in a reasonable manner to both the old and new employer.

[DIZZYHENRY]

well no I am not happy with current employers approach but I expected it. I just want out now - yes three years of my working life but I should have gone earlier..

Well yes, there is always the worry with being 'assessed' on pre-contract training.

No I don't want much more than one shift a week of overtime. Employers sadly now can have their cake and eat it.. plenty more behind me who will have the job

If i start training during my notice period I am in breach of contract...

[Browncow]

well no I am not happy with current employers approach but I expected it. I just want out now - yes three years of my working life but I should have gone earlier..

Well yes, there is always the worry with being 'assessed' on pre-contract training.

No I don't want much more than one shift a week of overtime. Employers sadly now can have their cake and eat it.. plenty more behind me who will have the job

If i start training during my notice period I am in breach of contract...

 

That is something for you to ask the old employer directly. I do not really think they would object. Are you working your notice or still off sick?

[luluspice]

I agree with Browncow, you need to clarify if you 'fail' training will job offer be withdrawn? My last employers had a training period for a particular job which was not clearly explained....result some folk did not pass & were let go. We ended up fielding the calls, very distressing!!! Most jobs have a 3 month probation period and it normally is included in contract. As for negative team...take care about jumping to conclusions:) You need to tell new employer of your notice period criteria...or ask for 'Garden Leave'....usually given to folk getting made redundant, they essentially are paid till end of contract/date of redundacy/leaving, but do not actually go into work. Stay positive, get the facts sorted in writing. by law if you have a written start date they have to pay you from that date even if you do not start on that date, but this pre- contract training thing concerns me, if it is paid training it should form part of contract......check it outou may have to just take the chance...like you say - plenty more in queue behind you... good luck

[DIZZYHENRY]

They defo want induction done prior to contract starts - but I don't want to do that tbh

The team were subject to bullying (!) about a year ago and still very unhappy and as I am recovering I am not sure I want that negativity (no-one lodged a grievance) so it was all hidden.

Job will have probation

Edited May 8, 2012 by DIZZYHENRY

[assisted blonde]

I think you need to think very carefully about the new job as you seem to have some negative feelings about it before you have even started, unless you are 100% happy about it dont go there as you will be causing problems for yourself especially as you have already had to take time off from your current job.

If you are not totally happy then you would not be being fair to yourself or the new compamy in accepting this position.

[Anus Horribilis]

I think you need to think very carefully about the new job as you seem to have some negative feelings about it before you have even started, unless you are 100% happy about it dont go there as you will be causing problems for yourself especially as you have already had to take time off from your current job.

If you are not totally happy then you would not be being fair to yourself or the new compamy in accepting this position.

 

I agree - this looks like a frying-pan to fire move.