Lloyds Credit Card PPI

[Bakerboy27]

Hi Guys,

I have a credit card account with Lloyds TSB which I have had for a good many years and unfortunately due to financial circumstances have not paid the last couple of payments, ths collections department are constantly phoning ( no suprise there) so I just don't answer, but the frequency has just got my back up.

 

I had PPi on this which I put in a claim for ( only by their own phone option ) they have acknowledged this but are dragging their feet.

I have also put in a request for the CCA (in the hope that they can't find it etc.)

 

I don't have a problem with the fact that I owe them something but according to my calcs. it's less than half the present balance so can I put this account into dispute?

 

my objectives in this is are

 

first to try to prevent any more damage to my credit rating although not the end of the world.

 

second to get the correct figure that I owe and pay them less.

 

and third to just put things on hold a while untill my situation changes which it is doing slowly.

 

So is there any specific wording I need to include as I can't seem to find anything that fits this senario

 

or does anyone have different suggestions please.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited March 25, 2012 by citizenB
formatted for easier reading

[citizenB]

LTSB do have a rather aggressive Collections department so it might be worth making an official complaint to their head office.

 

How old is the account - did you contact them when you first hit your financial hiccup and advise them of this fact - did you ask for some leeway in payments for a few months ?

 

When did you apply for the PPI refund and have you had a written acknowledgment of your complaint ? - did you back up this PPI refund request in writing, including the FOS complaint form and your own spread sheet ? If not, suggest you do .. refer to your telephone call.

 

I would also suggest that you do both a Subject Access request and a CCA request - you can find draft letters in the CAG library.

 

Your aim is to obtain as much information that they hold as you possibly can.. JIC they decide to turn nasty.

 

The CCA request should provide you with a copy of the agreement or reconstruction - terms and conditions applicable at both inception and any variations during the life of the account - plus a statement of account.

 

The SAR should provide you with everything they hold on your financial relationship with them. Plus a diary of events or communication log. This should identify the number/frequency of calls, or other communication between the both of you.

 

CCA request - they should comply within 12 working days + 2 for posting - It will cost you £1.00

SAR request - they should comply within 40 calendar days - it will cost you £10.00.

 

If they dont comply with the CCA request then they will still be permitted to harrass you by way of letter/telephone but they are unable to obtain a judgment against you whilst they dont comply with the s78 request.

 

If they dont comply with the SAR request you can either take your complaint to the FOS or issue a claim against THEM for non compliance.

 

Telephone harassment - there is a letter in the CAG library - it is your legal right to have them communicate in writing and to stop telephoning you.

 

HTH

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks CB,

The account was opened in 2001 and closed last year with a substancial balance still owing, had the choice of closing it and repaying or agreeing to an interest hike.

Stupidly i didn't make contact asking for assistance, was going through a bad patch and just burried my head I think, (possible bancruptcy, relationship problems, house issues. had the lot !!).

 

Applied for the PPI refund 2nd Feb so they have till the end of next week to be within the 8 weeks and they did give me written confirmation of the call, however not all the issues i raised were covered in the acknowledgement so I will do as you suggest and send in the complaint and spreadsheet, (already done to check their figures anyway)

 

Have already sent the CCA request, didn't consider the SAR as i have all the statements/letters that have been sent, but I will as a double check so thanks for that.

Results should be interesting as I have had accounts with them for around 30 years !

 

I will look into the phone harrassment, it's better to have a papertrail in the event of things going pear shaped.

 

Is it worth sending an account in dispute letter or does the above cover all bases?

 

Yes it does help thank you.

[citizenB]

I think the only basis on which you have to put the account into dispute at the moment is the lack of account information. How much do I actually owe !! and if they arent going to tell you how the account stands at present and how they have come to that figure then I guess you could say you are in dispute.

 

I think however, that you didnt do yourself any favours by not advising the bank of your financial hiccup and at the very least you should have asked for some kind of arrangment.. whereon if they refused to accommodate this.. then you would have had a dispute

 

Paper trails are very important.. start one ..

[Bakerboy27]

Thats the thing i was thinking of, How much do I owe?, in view of the PPI claim as far as I am concerned the amount of debt is incorrect.

Perhaps the thing i should do is go back to them very apologeticaly and ask for help, don't suppose I would be the first to do that and see where that goes?

Then put in a further claim for unfair charges!

[citizenB]

Thats the thing i was thinking of, How much do I owe?, in view of the PPI claim as far as I am concerned the amount of debt is incorrect.

Perhaps the thing i should do is go back to them very apologeticaly and ask for help, don't suppose I would be the first to do that and see where that goes?

Then put in a further claim for unfair charges!

 

Sounds like a plan to me - Address your first letter to their Head office rather than the Collections Department - see how you get on.

[Bakerboy27]

It's a huge relief to start to take control of a bad situation knowing that the people at CAG want to help, other than this I am sure lot's of people, myself included, would be in a very bad place.

[Bakerboy27]

Hi guys, I put in a call to Lloyds TSB in Feb on their PPI line, gave them a quick outline of a couple of points as to why I thought the PPI was mis sold, ie. self employed and not aware it was optional.

To be honest I was unprepared for how they seemed to respond and make the process easy, so I let it ride and left it for them to deal with. I didn't send anything to them as regards the spreadsheet, complaint or questionaire. Live and learn time!!!!

So fast forward 8 weeks

Received today 26/3/12 complaint not upheld due to blah blah blah. Scans below.

Now I know that I wouldn't have asked for it as even back in 2001 I knew there was not much chance of making any claim but there it was anyway. Cancelled it in 2005 but only fairly recently found out I could reclaim.

Anyway on the letter dated 23/3/12 it says if they haven't heard from me by 22/3/12 they will consider the matter closed.

Obviously this is tosh but what would be my next move? I sent in a CCA request last week and hope to get a SAR in the post today, I have all my statements and loads of correspondance but no CCA to see if it was added by default.

Don't want to let this die as it's worth around 6k according to my calcs.

All help greatfully received.

[BankFodder]

If you were unemployed then the PPI was invalid as it would not have paid out.

 

Reply to them and tell them this and that you want it taken to the Ombudsman

[ims21]

Two threads merged and title changed to reflect the actuality

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks Ims, wasn't sure about that.

Bankfodder I was Self employed not unenployed, could it still be the case?

[Bakerboy27]

Hi Guys, I have been looking at the various SAR letters and would be grateful of any comments on this variation before i send it off.

 

 

DSAR Unit

Lloyds TSB Bank PLC.

Customer Service Recovery

Charlton Place

Andover

SP10 1RE

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST.

 

 

with reference to Credit Card account numbers:

 

 

 

But not limited to the above.

 

 

The Subject Access Request is not limited to 6 years of transaction history

 

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts, Current Accounts and Credit Cards

 

I require you to supply me with a complete list of transaction and charges relating to my history, financial or otherwise, with your organization, INCLUDING ANY Loans, CreditCards or other accounts in any form, payment protection insurance and other products.

 

 

- Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or agreements is acceptable.

 

 

I also require you to provide the following for ALL accounts or agreements I have held with your organization:

 

- Full True Copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents and specific terms and conditions you hold in support of the same. For the avoidance of doubt I require copies of the ORIGINAL SIGNED CONTRACTS or if these are no longer in existance, a declaration to confirm this signed by an authorised officer of your company.

 

- Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including but not limited to copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

 

- Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email, telephone, or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial details or which pertains to me.

 

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

-Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £10 to cover your fee.

 

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable and below is a list of addresses used in the course of our business dealings.

 

 

.

 

 

IF YOU UNABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS REQUEST, YOU SHOULD IMMEDIATELY FORWARD IT TO THE PERSON WITHIN YOUR ORGANISATION RESPONSIBLE FOR DATA PROCECTION.

 

 

I am willing to collect this information from my local (named) branch if necessary

 

I look forward to hearing from you in the first instance of receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

[ims21]

Looks ok to me

 

ims

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks, it's going out tomorrow then

[Bakerboy27]

Hi Guys, just had a hectic few weeks so only just got round to this, I have drafted a letter in reply to their reconstituted CCA reply and would be greatful of someone giviong it a once over.

I would really like to get sight of my agreement as I don't believe for a second that I would have asked for PPI on it, that was the reason for putting in my CCA request. They replied saying that the debt is fully enforceable and will not be entering into further corespondance.

The Recon seems to be incorrect as for starters it does not have my address at inception on it, i will be checking it very carefully soon.

 

So any comments on this letter appreciated.

 

Lloyds TSB

Customer Relations

Lloyds Banking Group

BN1 1 LT

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:− Account Number

 

Following my request for a copy of my credit agreement dated 2012 ( a copy of which I enclose) Would you now please confirm clearly that you currently hold an Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement ( Consumer Credit Act 1974) in relation to the above numbered account.

Please confirm in writing if you do not hold the requested agreement.

This request is made under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR) 2008.

 

I would like to point out for the avoidance of doubt that an Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement is exactly that and NOT an application for credit or reconstructed agreement.

 

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity.

Please note, until such time as the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement is located I deem this account to be in dispute as to the amount said to be owing as shown on the statement of account and as such do not acknowledge this debt.

I await your response.

 

 

Yours faithfully

[citizenB]

Yes, that looks ok, but TBH, I dont think that you will obtain a satisfactory response.

 

So you know for a fact that they have been charging PPI, because it is itemised on statements - yes?

 

Should they respond by saying that you DID ask for it, then they are going to have to come up with the proof that you did.

 

You have your mis selling argument which is quite valid - a) you would not have requested it and b) you were self employed at the time c) that as you had not requested it, you just assumed that it was mandatory when it appeared on your statements.

[Bakerboy27]

I have already put in a claim for PPI with them and they have rejected it, although not a final response so I will have another go, I went about it badlyby just phoneing their PPI line and saying I was self employed and was not aware the cover was optional. As I say they have rejected it.

I was thinking of writing out the FOS questionaire and starting again but not sure if that is something I could do so advice please.

I have all the statements from inception and almost every piece of paperwork ever sent to me. I cancelled the PPI in 2005 when I became aware it wasn't mandatory but have only recently found out about reclaiming so thats another point about mis selling.

I have already sent an SAR and wait for the results of that.

 

One question that you pose is How do I get them to prove that I asked for it? do I do as I suggest and now send the FOS CQ or is it too late?

 

You also say not to expect a favourable result, That I can believe but feel as though I need to do something as sitting on this and trying to deflect things for the next six years doesn't seem to be the best course of action.

[citizenB]

I would start the process again, but correctly this time.

 

Complete your spread sheet - you will find these in the signatures of either ims21 or dx1008uk. Download and complete the FOS form. Short covering letter asking for your money back - keep copies JIC you do have to go to the Ombudsman.

 

If you do it this way and they refuse, then they are obliged to provide you with a final response in order for you to take your complaint to the Ombudsman.

 

As far as you are concerned, you have not asked for it. IMHO, they have to prove that you did - then then have to answer as to why you werent given sufficient information to make an informed decision. As there would have been certain exclusions due to your being self employed you would almost certainly have rejected it. What is the point of having something you cant claim on!!

 

You cancelled it once you were aware that it wasnt mandatory, but you were not aware until the recent media attention that you should have been given your money BACK.

 

HTH

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks, Yes that's more or less what I thought I would have to do just wasn't sure if it was "allowed" but after some of the drivel they have sent I suppose I shouldn't care.

This was my first attempt at claiming so got it superbly wrong, (followed a thread on here about an easy win with Cap 1 ) we live and learn.

I have had since four successes following the tried route and am waiting to hear from HFC on another, but this one has got messy.

One question about the spreadsheets, there seems to be 2 that are suggested, CISheet and FOSrunning, but can't seem to figure why the different ones are advised, any pointers on these please?

[ims21]

FosRunning is for a credit card where you have ALL of the statements including opening and closing balances

 

FosCi is a compound interest calculator, it compounds monthly but will not give as accurate a result as the running one and won't calculate the 8% either because it cannot reconstruct and account

 

ims

[Bakerboy27]

Thanks Ims, the thought of inputting data from the last 11 years isn't something I am looking forward to !!

[citizenB]

Thanks Ims, the thought of inputting data from the last 11 years isn't something I am looking forward to !!

 

It will keep you out of mischief for a couple of hours thats for sure!

[Bakerboy27]

I think you have a talent for understatement.