urgent help/advice needed with dukes bailiffs re:council tax

[star*]

hi there,

we are having problems with staffordshire moorlands council tax department, my husband was out of work and we recieved council tax benefit from august to january this year, the council are still saying we owe 632.00 pounds even though 400 of this is costs for dukes, i wote to the recovery department last week and delivered the letter by hand saying that we would pay what we owe but were disputing some of the amount, and also because we are on a low wage we are still entitled to council tax benefit, and a new claim has been submitted, i have heard nothing from the council until i recieved a letter from dukes toady saying that they will attend in a evening to remove our goods, and they want full payment of 632.36.

i phoned the council and they refused to deal with it saying that its in the bailiffs hands and its got nothing to do with them, i am now terrified of getting a knock at the door, please can some one advise me what to do,

many thanks

[seanamarts]

Hi star.

 

Did the bailiff enter your home at any time and make a levy on goods.

 

Have you managed to get a break down of the costs the bailiffs are stating that you owe.

[star*]

hi the bailiff came to our home last july, we werent in and they left a distress levy on our camper van, however the council acted too quickly in contacting the bailiffs and ignored all our communication, our coucil tax bill for 2011-2012 was 1,150.40 and we were late with a couple of payments but by july we had paid 490pounds, then from august we were entitled to council tax benefit due to my husband being out of work.

the total bailiff costs come to 412.00 i am just hunting out their letter from last july right now.

[seanamarts]

If the bailiff came out just the once and levied, then all you should be paying in fee's is the levy cost.

 

You say that you are still on benefits?

 

If so I would contact the manager of the benefits and revenues department and inform them that you are classed as vulnerable and request that they take payments straight from your benefits until such time you are back in work.

[star*]

no my husband only went back to work in january but because he isnt on a high wage we are still entitled to council tax benefit, and i have a claim going through, i spoke to the recovery department this morning but they refuse to deal with and have said now its in dukes hands they cant do anything about it, tbh the guy was rude and really unhelpful, if the bailiffs do come what should i do!!!

[star*]

hi i managed to find the original notice of seizure of goods and inventory from dukes dated 22nd july 2011,

first visit fee 24.50

second visit fee 18.00 (these werent visits but letters)

levy charge 60.00

enforcement fee 185.00

administration fee 24.50

[i hate bailiffs]

no my husband only went back to work in january but because he isnt on a high wage we are still entitled to council tax benefit, and i have a claim going through, i spoke to the recovery department this morning but they refuse to deal with and have said now its in dukes hands they cant do anything about it, tbh the guy was rude and really unhelpful, if the bailiffs do come what should i do!!!

 

 

Do not allow bailiffs entry to your house if need be don't answer the door and ignore them

 

Any vehicles you have move off drive move camper van to a locked garage or away

 

DO not sigh anything from a bailiff ever

 

If you deny them entry or levy not much they can do apart from hand it back to council

 

Any payments do direct to council on line or automated phone service

 

:-D

[i hate bailiffs]

enforcement fee 185.00

administration fee 24.50

 

They CANNOT CHARGE THIS!!!!

[star*]

im going into the council today to try and sort it out, but i am worried as the letter from dukes says they are giving me a warning of an evening attendance to remove our goods,

[i hate bailiffs]

The bailiffs cannot force entry or make you open door

 

you will be breaking NO LAW having no dealings with bailiffs eventually they will hand it back to council

 

As they have a levy on the camper van what is camper worth??

[star*]

the camper van is worth around 2000pounds, and this is all a big mistake because we were late with our payments last year, the thing is though we had paid 490pounds by the end of july and were upto date, but the council seem hell bent on sending it to the bailiffs, im really sorry but im sat here at home in floods of tears because dealing with dukes makes me a nervous wreck, does anyone know if there is anyone who can deal with the council on my behalf

[star*]

will the levy still stand as they left it in our post box in july dated it but i havnt signed it

[star*]

hi again ok, ive stopped crying!!! and now i want to do something about this and do it properly, 1st of all before i go to the council to complain is there anything legal that i can say in regards to the outragous enforcement fee of 185.00 and admin fee of 24.50 and i also want to send a formal complaint to dukes to complain about this fee, i know they will fob me of so any advice on wording etc will be much appreciated, also we cant move our camper van but if its covered up and the reg is covered can they still threaten to take it???? many thanks

[impecunious]

hi i managed to find the original notice of seizure of goods and inventory from dukes dated 22nd july 2011,

first visit fee 24.50

second visit fee 18.00 (these werent visits but letters)

levy charge 60.00

enforcement fee 185.00

administration fee 24.50

 

 

As far as I understand, if the bailiffs levied on your camper van on their 1st visit, then they can only charge the levy fee and not the £24.50 first visit fee (they can't charge both fees on the same day). No charge can be made in respect of the letter they sent (in lieu of 2nd visit) but I suppose they could actually make a second visit and then legitimately claim £18.00.

 

They cannot charge you £185 for their "enforcement fee" nor £24.50 for their "administration fee" - although they might argue that if the camper van is sold, that would be effectively be a "header" fee in respect of advertising, etc.

 

It's a bit like smoke and mirrors with most bailiffs.

 

Because the bailiffs have already levied on your camper van, technically they can remove it and sell it to cover your outstanding debt and their ficticious charges. (You can dispute these charges later but one thing a time for now.) They don't need your signature. (All a signature does is allow them to claim another £12 in charges.)

 

Merely covering over the camper van and hiding the registration won't hinder them. Best thing is, as already advised, is to garage it away. NOT at your property though because I believe that bailiffs can break into a detached garage/shed/outbuilding to seize goods. Please correct me someone if I'm wrong. However, as the levy was made over 8 months ago, it might be considered as abandoned.

 

Your best bet is to start paying something regularly to your council every week without fail via their electonic payment system. This way you quickly start to establish a payment pattern - this also supports the fact that you're a "can't pay" not a "won't pay".

 

Don't talk to the bailiffs, don't let them in! There is nothing in law that states you have to deal with them. Eventually, they'll get tired and return your debt to your council.

 

You're going to have to stay strong and adopt a seige-like mentality until the debt is returned to the Council. Be prepared for a long haul.

 

In the meantime, hopefully the council can sort out your new claim for Council Tax benefit.

 

Please remember that Council Tax (whether anyone thinks it's legal or not) is considered to be a priority debt and should be treated as such. There's a really good I&E form on CAG that will help you to determine how much you can realistically afford and sustain each week/month.

 

Don't cry - you need to stay positive to deal with this.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Impecunious!

Edited March 15, 2012 by impecunious

[i hate bailiffs]

sorry,had to rush out

 

Bailiffs can charge you £24.50 first visit then £18.00 second visit

 

NO admin fee and NO enforcement fee

 

 

normally when they levy on a vehicle they put it through door whether in or out so not normally sighed

 

If you can move camper away and deny them levy on any other goods

 

the use of bailiffs is the first step for the council once bailiffs give up they hand it back to council

 

Just to continue payments to the council direct

 

if bailiffs return ignore door if need be or speak to them from a upstairs window or through letter box

[i hate bailiffs]

Keep doors and windows secure at all times till bailiffs give up:-D

[star*]

thanks for the advice its really appreciated!! i will stay strong, i've emailed my local mp, and i have an appointment tomorrow with the council tax recovery department i dont understand why they have instructed dukes as i wrote to them with our repayment plans!!, and up untill jan we recieved council tax benefit, i will have to try and hide the van, this has ruined my day! im not letting the kids play out tonight!!!!

[i hate bailiffs]

Hope all goes well with council tax recovery department................remember if they say with the bailiffs nothing we can do ect ect do not phone bailiffs nor speak to them if you don't want to it WILL get handed back to the council i say that from past experiences.

 

the bailiffs have less right to be on you're property than next doors cat!!!

 

If it is a work van or needed for work they should not be able to levy on it ...............but they no doubt will or at least try.

 

the council are responsible for the bailiffs and can call them off at any point, tell them you know what they can charge and very different to what they trying on

 

if need be pay council for bailiffs attendance fees

£24.50 plus £18.00

 

hopefully that will be end of bailiffs :-D

[josephbloggs]

1st and 2nd visit charges are for two seperate visits where no levy is made and on each occasion a letter will be left at the property.

If a levy has been done which it has a levy fee is applied. If the bailiff is there to enforce the debt on that occasion, contrary to nearly all posters on the forum an enforement fee can be charged.

The fees charged by a bailiff for council tax are agreed by the council and the company.

The bailiff has the power to remove your vehicle if you dont pay him, and just because you havent signed it doesnt make it invalid.

And with regard to nicbbb's post,

Council tax has to be paid, liability orders do exist, warrants of execution are for parking fines, dukes are bailiffs not powerless debt collectors, and the fotl drivvel is absolute nonsense

[Rocco17]

The Local Government Finance Act 1992 is the one that deals with Council Tax.

 

The arguments put forward by the likes of Hayes seem to be mainly concerned with how this is enforced through the courts. They may think they have a point by clinging to technicalities, and I can see how it may be tempting for people who do not want to pay to join a campaign such as this, but IMO it would be a mistake to do so, as not a single person will end up having their Council Tax bills cancelled as a result of this. Not one.

 

Quite simply, if council tax was not legal then liability orders would not be granted by the court and people would not have been sent to prison for not paying. Both of those things happen. If people wish to argue that, they will be arguing from a prison cell. If you are comfortable with that, because you know that you have won the moral argument, then fine. But that is what will happen.

 

Nicbbb, not sure how long you have not 'had to pay' council tax, but I daresay its not that long.

[ploddertom]

Back in Post 6 you listed charges that were made by the Bailiffs but only mentioned 1 date. Is this because they applied all the charges on that date or were there other "visits". In particular was the levy made on the same date as either 1st or 2nd Visit and again what date was the "enforcement" fee made.

 

As for the levy. The chance are that yes it was valid at that time but wonder if you could answer the following:

1 - since the levy was made was any agreement made to pay either in full or in instalments

2 - if monies were promised has the required schedule been kept to

3 - if you broke any required schedule when did this happen

4 - if no payments were made at all how often has the Bailiff visited you

I am trying to establish as to whether the Bailiff has actually abandoned his levy.

 

Unfortunately waiting the results of a Benefit claim is not sufficient to justify not paying your Council Tax. The Council are wrong saying it is nothing to do with them as they remain 100% liable at all times for the actions and fee charged by their contractors. I would also urge you to contact your local Councillor(s) ASAP and asking for help. in my view they are contactable 7 days per week up until 9pm, if you meet any refusal or reluctance go over their heads to the Leader of the Council and their opposite number.

 

PT

[star*]

first of all josephbloggs and nicbbb please dont use my thread to waste valuable information that i was requesting, and josephbloggs believe me i know dukes are bailiffs, i want to pay my council tax and after clarifying much legal advice i also know for council tax they cannot charge such an outrageous enforcement fee amount. please dont reply unless its something that will be beneficial to me in the situation i am in.

hi ploddertom, i recieved 2 letters in the post, however as soon as i recieved the first letter i went straight upto the council office to sort it out, basically due to being on a low income we missed our 1st payment in april, i went to the council to make a claim for council tax benefit and the lady logged our claim but due to staff shortages it wouldnt be processed for 6-8weeks, she ensured me that providing i could make minimal payments no action would be taken, however i was still sent a summons, by june i had paid 345 pounds which left me in no arrears at all, but the recovery department still sent in dukes, they also had a go at me over the phone for not contacting the bailiff, and because i had made payments to the council and not the bailiffs, even though i was upto date with my monthly payments they sent the bailiffs because they wanted me to pay the rest of the year, in full

when the bailiff came in july i had then paid 490pounds in payments (bearing in mind my total bill is 1150.40), only when he had come round and left the enforcement did they back down and call of dukes, but i was left with unessesary charges.

from august to january this year my husband was out of work and we recieved 22pounds per week council tax benefit, which worked out at 484pounds,

according to my calculations we only owe 176, which whilst i am waiting for our new claim to go through i have asked to pay it back at 10pounds per week which started last friday, but they have ignored my letter and the bailiffs are saying i owe 636pounds!!!

[ploddertom]

hi ploddertom, i recieved 2 letters in the post, - if these were received by Royal Mail (do you still have them & the envelopes they came in), then there is no way they can either charge you for writing them or claiming a Visit Fee for them - however as soon as i recieved the first letter i went straight upto the council office to sort it out, basically due to being on a low income we missed our 1st payment in april,

 

according to my calculations we only owe 176, which whilst i am waiting for our new claim to go through i have asked to pay it back at 10pounds per week which started last friday, but they have ignored my letter - that sounds par for the course - and the bailiffs are saying i owe 636pounds!!!

 

Have you asked the Bailiffs for a breakdown of their fees? If not this should be done ASAP. I also posed the question of the the levy and if the Bailiff had kept up with his visit(s) - this is actually quite important as it could have a bearing on what you may be liable for. After all if we can prove the levy is invalid in some way, you may only owe the basic fees.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

hi ploddertom, i recieved 2 letters in the post, - if these were received by Royal Mail (do you still have them & the envelopes they came in), then there is no way they can either charge you for writing them or claiming a Visit Fee for them - however as soon as i recieved the first letter i went straight upto the council office to sort it out, basically due to being on a low income we missed our 1st payment in april,

 

according to my calculations we only owe 176, which whilst i am waiting for our new claim to go through i have asked to pay it back at 10pounds per week which started last friday, but they have ignored my letter - that sounds par for the course - and the bailiffs are saying i owe 636pounds!!!

 

Have you asked the Bailiffs for a breakdown of their fees? If not this should be done ASAP. I also posed the question of the the levy and if the Bailiff had kept up with his visit(s) - this is actually quite important as it could have a bearing on what you may be liable for. After all if we can prove the levy is invalid in some way, you may only owe the basic fees.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

hi ploddertom, i recieved 2 letters in the post, - if these were received by Royal Mail (do you still have them & the envelopes they came in), then there is no way they can either charge you for writing them or claiming a Visit Fee for them - however as soon as i recieved the first letter i went straight upto the council office to sort it out, basically due to being on a low income we missed our 1st payment in april,

 

according to my calculations we only owe 176, which whilst i am waiting for our new claim to go through i have asked to pay it back at 10pounds per week which started last friday, but they have ignored my letter - that sounds par for the course - and the bailiffs are saying i owe 636pounds!!!

 

Have you asked the Bailiffs for a breakdown of their fees? If not this should be done ASAP. I also posed the question of the the levy and if the Bailiff had kept up with his visit(s) - this is actually quite important as it could have a bearing on what you may be liable for. After all if we can prove the levy is invalid in some way, you may only owe the basic fees.

 

PT