Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Received a final demand today Final demand.pdf
    • Here is my final draft: I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in the claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act.   1.        The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date.   2.        I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment.   As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   3.        The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’.  The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents.   4.        Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018.   5.        I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020.   6.        Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicotors is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’   7.        I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’.   8.        The claimant relies upon and exhibits a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement.   It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HH Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’.   The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause.   9.        Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not try to mislead the court.   10.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024
    • Only trying to help.  Ain't being nasty.  Some
    • Hi folks, I've just found previous documentation. I thought it had gone missing. I'd forgotten that I did appeal it through POPLA but I can't find the thread on here that, I assume, I posted for help. Appeal letter is dated 27/10/2020 with a rejection. I genuinely had forgotten about this so apologies for misleading you. A lot has happened in the years since the ticket was issued. We closed down a couple of businesses and moved to the opposite end of the country to retire. The documents I have are scanned copies. I no longer have the originals. The NTK is also in there. If there's anything you'd like to see, please let me know and I'll post them, although it probably won't be until tomorrow now, but I'll be looking in on this page tonight. Thank you for the responses so far
    • Hello! After emailing them I received this reply:   I have drafted the following, please would you be able to comment as to if you think it is correct/sufficient? "Thank you for your email.   Thanks you for confirming that the vehicle does not have these features as stated in the advertisement.    I am sure you are aware that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 provides the short term right to reject within 30 days. Statutory rights cannot be taken away from a consumer, and any attempt to do so is illegal.   Please can you advise how best to return the vehicle?" Thanks in advance!
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Mistakenly used wifes Oyster on bus - now TfL letter/prosection date **SETTLED OOC**


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2984 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hello!

I read a few threads here and hope that you'll be able to help me out with this matter.

 

I received a letter from TFL asking me to make any comments regarding the incident that took place.

TFL only refers to "an incident took place at GREEN PARK station whereby you were spoken to by a member of London Underground staff regarding your train journey and the associated fare. The facts of this incidents are now being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be initiated against you regarding this matter in accordance with the LU prosecution policy".

I am then invited to make any comments but I do not have to. However, not responding might harm my defense if I later want to rely on it in court and am being advised that this will be used as evidence.

 

So far about the letter and now I do not know how best to respond.

Since I am not exactly told what I am exactly charged for or what they attempt to charge against me I am not sure about the best course of action.

 

What happened in January was that I decided to take the tube home on Friday eventing from GP. Behind the gates was a Fare inspector and she asked me to show my oyster card. I pulled out my card and showed it only to realize that I was actually not holding my own oyster but my wife's student oyster. We do have several oyster cards at home for when friends visit etc and I must have picked her card as opposed to mine. We are both using our cards regularly to get to work/uni and I did not notice that I was using her card in error.

 

I immediately told the inspector about this mistake and advised her of the above facts and that we mixed up our cards. She took my details, verified them and then read my rights to me. When she wanted to ask me several questions I stated that I would not like to make any comments on the spot and remain silent. I was told that I might be prosecuted for evasion of fare. I repeatedly apologized for my mistake and re-iterated that I had no intention of evading any fare and this was a matter of mixing up our oyster cards at home.

 

While I realize that this was a stupid mistake that should not have happened I had no intention of avoiding any fare. At no point was I offered to pay a penalty fare. While I had no intention I realize that by an honest mistake that can happen I ended up in a situation where I was not in possession of the correct ticket/fare, hence I would have expected to pay a penalty fine for my mistake. This is the first time that such a mistake happened and I was shocked to find out that this might lead to fine of up to 1,000 GBP and a criminal record!

 

I read in several threads that pleading guilty would automatically trigger a criminal record, which I certainly have to avoid. Also it seems like aiming for an out of court settlement is the best available option left in this situation. At this point I am not even sure with what they are attempting to charge me so would rely on some experience from users what the above refers to.

 

Also, I am wondering whether I should ask for an out of court settlement at this point or simply state the same as above, i.e. only give my version of what happened and what led to this situation and then see what happens next.

 

Your advice and feedback on what to do in this situation is greatly appreciated as I only have a few days to respond and am not sure what's the best action to take.

 

Many thanks in advance!

Link to post
Share on other sites

In any case where a person is using a season ticket or Oyster that is restricted to use by another person, the allegation will almost certainly be 'intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of the Regulation of Railways Act (1889)'

 

You can always write and attempt to convince TfL that this was an innocent mistake, but the responsibility for checking that your ticket is valid for travel before starting any journey always lies with the traveller.

 

How much of an explanation you give is entirely up to you, but TfL have a reputation for taking a hard line on misuse of other peoples' tickets.

Edited by Old-CodJA
Link to post
Share on other sites

Misuse of concessionary passes is taken very seriously by TfL, and they will charge you under section 5.3a of RRA 1889. You can look view TfL's prosecution policy here (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf). It is extremely unlikely that they would allow you to settle out of court, they would only do so in exceptional circumstances (for example if you were to lose your job or visa). It is probably best not to offer them any more information before consulting with a solicitor.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read about the hard line approach that apparently especially TFL is taking. That's why I am really worried about this and just can't believe that a criminal record would be caused by this. I understand that it is up to me to ensure that I have a valid card for my journey but as I pointed out, this was a mistake that happened and there was no intention to actually evade any fare. After all my wife was using my card at the same time and effectively overpaid for her journeys.

 

While I doubt that I can bring up such an argument with TFL I hope it explains here that there was no intention to evade any fare.

 

Not quite sure now what to do. It does not feel right to simply ignore the letter and see what happens. My intuition would be to state what happens and leave it with that. Maybe suggest a settlement out of court right away.

 

Should I really consult a solicitor at this stage? Are there any good ones that you 'd recommend for such a scenario?

 

 

@ Ganymede: you're right it is not relevant to the case, but we do have about 4 oysters at home (my wife's season student pass, my oyster (generally PAYG or monthly pass) and two others are topped up PAYG for visitors) and they are stored in a basket next to the keys...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yours options on this issue are limited, So did you know beforehand that your wife had your oyster? Your best course of action as has been suggested is to write to TFL on the matter to see if they will give the opportunity to settle.

 

Your assumption on the issue of a penalty fare is wrong im affraid and in this case being issued with one was not an option as the inspector has suspected intended fare evasion (travelling on discount oyster) The purpose of the PFN is to encourage people to buy tickets before travelling. You are advised not to ignore the letter as it isnt one of those things that will go away and if you do not reply to them then expect a case at court to be heard in your absence, there is a chance they might call you in to discuss the issue face to face.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Hello!

 

I sent the suggested letter to TFL back then and haven't received any furhter communication apart from a request for a copy of the multiple oysters we have in our househould. I provided those back in April or so and reiterated that this was an act of mixing up the cards. Apologized again and asked to settle this matter outside of court.

 

Nothing came since then and yesterday after returning from vacation I found a letter in my mail with a summons to appear in court on July 12th. This was received just on our first vacation day so it has already been more than two weeks by now.

 

It is saying that on that day London Underground will be applying for the sum of 130 GBP for the sum of costs incurred. Along with it came some more documents and the "evidence", i.e. statement of the RCI and a usage analysis of the oysters.

 

I am not sure what is the best course of action for me to take now. My understanding is that if I plead guilty I automatically will get a criminal conviction which would be a complete disaster and my main goal would be to avoid this.

 

Is it feasable to contact the prosecutor directly and suggest again an out of court settlement as I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention. What would be the best way to argument here? Anybody got some experience here?

 

Or what would be my chances of going to court and repeating my previous statement? Will the court be able to convict me of the crime of not having the intention to pay the fare even though that was not the case at all?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I found a letter in my mail with a summons to appear in court on July 12th. This was received just on our first vacation day so it has already been more than two weeks by now.

 

It is saying that on that day London Underground will be applying for the sum of 130 GBP for the sum of costs incurred. Along with it came some more documents and the "evidence", i.e. statement of the RCI and a usage analysis of the oysters.

 

I am not sure what is the best course of action for me to take now. My understanding is that if I plead guilty I automatically will get a criminal conviction which would be a complete disaster and my main goal would be to avoid this.

 

Is it feasable to contact the prosecutor directly and suggest again an out of court settlement as I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention. What would be the best way to argument here? Anybody got some experience here?

 

Or what would be my chances of going to court and repeating my previous statement? Will the court be able to convict me of the crime of not having the intention to pay the fare even though that was not the case at all?

 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

 

 

Firstly, I think this part of your post needs to be looked at and hopefully, better understood.

 

I cannot imagine that an appearance in court is really in their intention.

 

 

 

Clearly the intention of TfL is to prosecute. They do not waste time, money and effort on issuing Summonses and preparing files for no good reason. What you need to do is to find an attractive alternative to offer them in order for them to discontinue this action.

 

 

I have to say they are pretty robust in pursuing the misuse of Oysters and other season tickets, but you could arrive at Court on 12th July and once you've registered with the Court Usher ask him/her if you can speak with the prosecutor. Maybe you can convice him/her to accept an out of Court disposal, but if you do then you will need to be able to pay whatever figure is agreed there and then in cash, so make sure that you have the means with you.

 

They do not have to agree to settlement and although unlikely, it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi!

 

Just to give you an update. After consulting with the local CAB and following a visit to the local legal advice center I eventually called up TFL.

They insisted on a written response which I provided. I carefully reviewed their prosecution policy and basically argued along point 10 that a warning letter would be more suitable instead of prosecution and that a prosecution could have a very severe negative impact on my current and future employment opportunities.

With my hearing date approaching I chased them up today to get an update and shortly afterwards received an offer to settle this outside of court.

Upon payment of £400 to cover their expenses for the prosecution they would be willing to withdraw the case if it is received prior to the court date.

 

On the court document, these costs were listed as £130 and I can hardly imagine anything has been done since then apart from reviewing my email! While it somehow feels like being blackmailed and getting squeezed I guess there is no point in arguing with them. Or have you guys had any experience with that? Just not sure if this is a take it or leave it offer that is non-negotiable.

 

Given what is at stake it is probably best to pay up and take it as lesson learnt to be more organized with these things.

 

I’d like to thank each one of you who was willing to read through this and dedicate their time and offer advice to help me in this matter. This was very valuable and more useful than all the advice I received from CAB or the local legal center….

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

Hello BusTraveller,

 

I am in a very similar situation (almost identical i would say).

 

Is it possible it you paste your letter to tfl? I really need to see what wording i should be using and what arguments i should be addressing when i write to them.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I don't know if Bus Traveller will see your post, as they don't seem to have been around for a while.

 

It would be a good idea to start your own thread and tell us what's happened. Template letters don't work terribly well for this situation because everyone's story is different and it's usually better to write your own. I think I've seen it said that the transport companies get to know the template letters and don't always respond well to that. It shows that you're taking the matter seriously if you write something in your own words.

 

The guys should be able to give you and idea of what to say once they know what the problem is.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

thread now closed as repeated new users mistakenly post on it

the org thread is now 4 yrs old

you wont get seen

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • dx100uk changed the title to Mistakenly used wifes Oyster on bus - now TfL letter/prosection date **SETTLED OOC**
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2984 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...