Employment Support Allowance Refusal - Next Stage Tribunal Advice please?

[Wayne C]

I am writing this for my friend who is in the process of appealing against Zero Points at the Atos Medical and 0 Points he recieved over the telephone in an unexpected phone assessment at 8.45am a couple of weeks ago via a DWP assessor

 

My friend suffers from the following things which severely limit his day to day activities, so much so that I am having to ask these questions for him!

 

1. Ostemyelitis - infection of the leg bones in the past which causes pain and swelling to his lower limbs

2. Depression - On Medication for this

3. Anxiety and problems interactiing with others due to stress - he is seeing a Cognative psychotherapist to help him interact with others

4. Urinary tract disorders which givce him constant pain and as yet have yet to be identified why

5. Back Problems

6. Hypertension ( diagnosed two weeks after his appeal )

 

When my friend had the initial atos medical he was in a severe anxiety state to the point of feeling on the verge of being ill in the medical room the assessor ( doctor ) took no interest in this and continued to ask the questions, the lady who phoned him asked about other things which he says he told her about on the phone but there was no alteration in her assesment he still recieved no points what so ever!!.

 

He is very worried about what to do where to turn to and got so stressed reading the 60 page document they sent ( including the medical practitioners report which seems to disregard most of what he tells me he said in the room.

 

He has 14 days to send the letter to the local tribunals service please can anyone offer advice as to what he has to do.

 

Thanks Wayne

[lee100]

Hi Wayne,

 

I'll do my best to help.

 

I'm a bit confused when you say that "he has 14 days to send the letter to the local tribunals service..".

 

You need to send the appeal form into the DWP / BDC, and not the Tribunal Service.

 

First things first (I've been through the Appeal process myself once before, and am going through it a second time currently).

 

Download the DWP GL24 Appeal Form here -

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Diol1/DoItOnline/DG_4017514

 

Print it off, and fill it in, stating that you wish to appeal against the decision of finding him 'fit for work', on the basis if his ill health (specifying briefly the health issues).

 

Send it Recorded Delivery. You must send it asap - ie within 14 days of the date of the zero points decision, to his usual local DWP / Benefit Delivery Centre office; ie - the same address to which your friend sent his Doctor's Notes.

 

Once he's done that, come back to the forum, and we'll kindly help you with what to do next.

 

[Wayne C]

Hello to add some things

 

he has had the Medical after filling in the pack initially last September, He was denied ESA as he scored 0 points, he appealed filling in the form and sending it in within the specified time frame, is now on ESA assessment level of £65 a week, the lady who phoned him was a lady who re assessed his condition over the phone, she was only on he says for 5 minutes he has received her letter which again gave him no points , next stage is the Tribunal

 

so in a nutshell he has

 

1. Had Atos Medical

2. Recieved Zero Points letter

3. Appealed with the relevant form

4. Been reassessed over the phone ( he was totally unprepared for this and had been up all night the night before and tired out )

5. has just got a letter from the Tribunals service saying he has 14 days to either say yes or no to a tribunal

 

IS it true that they only look at how he was on the date of the medical on November last year as he is significantly worse than he was then probably due to this I may add!

Edited February 12, 2012 by Wayne C

[feelingsad]

Technically yes they look at how he was then. Also would add that diagnosis in itself means zilch wrt an ATOS medical so the list of diagnosis is irrelevant to it. What matters is whether your friend can do x, y and z tasks. So his evidence needs to say what s/he can't do and why, sometimes the why can involve a diagnosis but you would need to expand on why practically as to what s/he has difficulty doing.

[lee100]

Hello to add some things

 

he has had the Medical after filling in the pack initially last September, He was denied ESA as he scored 0 points, he appealed filling in the form and sending it in within the specified time frame, is now on ESA assessment level of £65 a week, the lady who phoned him was a lady who re assessed his condition over the phone, she was only on he says for 5 minutes he has received her letter which again gave him no points , next stage is the Tribunal

 

so in a nutshell he has

 

1. Had Atos Medical

2. Recieved Zero Points letter

3. Appealed with the relevant form

4. Been reassessed over the phone ( he was totally unprepared for this and had been up all night the night before and tired out )

5. has just got a letter from the Tribunals service saying he has 14 days to either say yes or no to a tribunal

 

IS it true that they only look at how he was on the date of the medical on November last year as he is significantly worse than he was then probably due to this I may add!

 

Ok.

 

Yes, your friend now needs to send back the form to the Tribunal Service, confirming that he does want a Tribunal Hearing.

 

Remember - Don't tick the box, where it says "Are you available for an earlier, short notice Hearing?"

 

This will give your friend a good six months to prepare.

 

Your friend can seek help with preparing his Appeal letter from the CAB. They may attend the hearing with him too.

Edited February 12, 2012 by lee100

[lee100]

As for the 'phone assessment', the DWP really shouldn't do this. It's immoral.

 

From now on, I would advise your friend to only correspond with the DWP / ATOS / TS in writing, and never over the phone.

[lee100]

The focus from here on in, has to be gathering 'supporting evidence' from his GP / specialists to support his appeal.

 

Good Luck.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

There's also the forum sticky on appeals and tribunals. Even if your friend has help from the CAB, at least one person from the forum used the sticky template for their submission for the tribunal and Welfare Rights said it was very helpful.

 

My best, HB

[lee100]

Hear, hear HB!

 

I have to thank you HB for originally posting your sticky template for the tribunal.

 

I won! (Eighteen months back now)

 

Silly me, pushed myself back into work too soon.

 

So, had to back to assessment rate (CAB are appealing this, as it seems my WRAG should've been reinstated), have a second medical, and now an upcoming second appeal!

 

 

Thanks again though HB, for your helpful template.

 

Wayne, have a look. It's a great format to use.

 

[honeybee13]

Sorry to digress, Lee. If the template helped you, can I put you on my wall of fame as a win please?

 

HB

[lee100]

Sorry to digress, Lee. If the template helped you, can I put you on my wall of fame as a win please?

 

HB

 

Hiya,

 

Yes, of course!

 

(Won my Appeal back in September 2010)

 

[lee100]

PS - Just hope I win my second one.

 

Very stressed but I'm prepared this time, and have had kind support from the CAB.

 

The CLS lady will also be coming with me to the Hearing.

 

Sorry Wayne. I'll shut it now!

[Wayne C]

can you provide a link to the template please?.

 

Also I have just re read his Atos Assessment and the Dr who was an assessor was very aggressive in tone with him and repeatedly said " I didnt ask you that" and also said on many times " I Dont understand what you mean?, but has put on the assessment Efficient communication???

[lee100]

can you provide a link to the template please?.

 

Also I have just re read his Atos Assessment and the Dr who was an assessor was very aggressive in tone with him and repeatedly said " I didnt ask you that" and also said on many times " I Dont understand what you mean?, but has put on the assessment Efficient communication???

 

Hi,

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

[lee100]

Wayne, what you've illustrated will be a good point to bring them up on, in that what was said at your friend's assessment, contradicts what is in his report.

 

Follow the template, and go through point - by - point on his report, marking any discrepancies.

[Wayne C]

Im a bit concerned though as the assessor who wrote the report seems to have carried on regardless , he told her he felt physically sick and asked for a drink of water, she still ploughed through with the barage of questions telling him as I say " I dont ask you that!! " , Apparently the lady who re assessed on the phone siad that any complaints should be sent to Atos, seems bizarre considering they based their assessment on this report and agree with the findings after re assessing.

[honeybee13]

Wayne, I'm afraid what you're telling us is normal here. Have a read around the forum and you'll find countless examples. It happened to me too. I think it's partly the LiMA software and the dropdown box options, but the assessors really don't get good press.

 

The only thing you can do is use the DWP's own system against them, which is what the template does.

 

I won my tribunal, I now know lee100 did [signature changed btw, you're on it now] and a few other people from the forum have as well. I hope there are others who haven't told us, I'd be very happy to hear if they did.

 

HB

[lee100]

Wayne, the woman sounds utterly atrocious!

 

Par for the course though. Ask your friend to try not to take it personally, as most people 'fail' these assessments, only to win their appeals.

 

The CAB will also put in a formal complaint to ATOS, on his behalf (mine has done just that).

 

He'll be ok.

 

[lee100]

Cheers HB!

[Wayne C]

Can I ask please if they they only go on the interview medical thing how will he have a hope of winning this thing?, if they dont consider anything after the Medical took place, he tells me that they didnt really ask him anything about how he felt in himself and looking at certain areas of the form Atos did they said, did not appear to be trembling wasnt sweating over much etc, surely saying you felt sick and such is a sign your not up to the drilling they give out!!

 

I mean just because someone isnt sweating like that Comedian fella at mEdical and not shaking like a leaf doesnt correlate to how someones thinking inside.

[honeybee13]

The tribunal panel will listen to and believe what your friend tells them about his health. Any supporting evidence from his medical advisers will also help.

 

Please try not to get too hung up over the unfairness you see in Atos; it's something we all have to deal with. What you and he need now is a logical argument against their report.

 

And who knows, maybe the DWP decision maker will overturn the decision before it goes to tribunal.

 

HB

[Wayne C]

And who knows, maybe the DWP decision maker will overturn the decision before it goes to tribunal.

 

HB

 

 

The person DWP rang him up the day after he went to a funeral at 8.45 in the morning he told the person all about the way he felt etc she was on 5 minutes and said she would re evaluate his points guess what Zero Points???

 

A;so it siad no supporting evidence supplied , none was asked for in the phone call and it was completely out of the blue, sort of like a telephone marketing thing

[honeybee13]

That's unfortunate, I agree. But now it's time not to get mad, get even.

[Wayne C]

Can I ask Honeybee since he has had the medical he has been referred to a Psychotherapist as he hardly leaves the house and then reluctantly is that relevant to his case, I feel its relevant but I read earlier that they only look at what was put on the assessment form, surely drs letters stating that he has mental health issues, which the GP states haven't been helped to improve via this appeal are relevant

[honeybee13]

If by assessment form you mean Atos, then absolutely doctors' letters are relevant. You're into tribunal territory now and it's different.

 

If I may, I would suggest that you read some other threads about people here who've been to tribunal because there are lots. My own experience is limited to my own tribunal and you need more information than that.

 

HB