New CAB debt tool & online Assisted Self Help Debt Management Plan

[Wintry]

hi wintry

goodo. i prob misread part of your post, it was late

 

Hi ford

 

It was very late, Ive just looked at the post times:)

 

All the points you make are good and you may be more right than you realise.

 

There will always be DMP providers, both free and fee chargers, the demand is so high and there are people that will always want to use them or basically cannot handle affairs themselves.

 

Going with a free DMP provider like Payplan & Stepchange has to be a no brainer in my opinion but people should always have the choice as to who they wish to use is my view and that would have to include the fee chargers.

 

With new initiatives then standards usually rise and that has to be a good thing.

 

Time never stands still however and there is a growing slot for for self managing especially in these difficult times of falling disposable incomes, rising costs etc and with the ever increasing IT & educational development

 

Your point about the big players is relevant, but the CAB movement is also a very big player (a sleeping giant maybe as far as DMPs are concerned) that can bring heavy pressure on creditors and collection agencies etc.

 

DMPs are just one debt solution and can be long term or temporary. A genuine easy accessible, flexible online tool that does the business and saves everything can be utilised in many ways by both those in debt, advisers, agencies, other support organisations and individuals.

 

Also with the forthcoming changes on the welfare reform front then this type of resource is likely to be of great benefit for those struggling with budgeting, debt and the under fire & overwhelmed advice agencies especially the face to face ones.

 

Debt advice is not just about Debt Management Plans and IVAs and how much profit or revenue can be generated from them.

 

It also has to be remembered that many people have little or no choice other than to administer their own Debt Management Plans or deal with creditors themselves (both priority & non-priority)

 

Genuine FREE independent impartial advice is where I stand, if people want to call me and others for that, then they are welcome to do so and are more than free to state their case.

 

We plead guilty your honour.

 

PS - Cheers for the support ford it is appreciated

Edited March 17, 2013 by Wintry

[Nick Pearson]

Hi Wintry, sorry Ive not posted for a while - too busy reading http://www.fsa.gov.uk/library/policy/cp/2013/13-07.shtml The move from OFT to FCA regulation is going to have a huge inpact on both free and commercial debt advice providers, but esp the fee chargers. I know its over 200 pages but I'd urge people to have a "quick" read as its a crucially important document. I note your comments re self help; I for one am keen to see as many people who can use it, do so. I don't see it as something which detracts from commercial firms or free providers but as you know creditors tend not to be fans. The biggest "threat" to commercial DMC's is undoubtedly the FCA regime (see above). I suspect that the number of firms left in the market in 2 years time will be half what it is now as firms exit the market due tio increase costs of regulation, lack of profitability and greater regulatory scrutiny. And a good thing too from all points of view esp in the light of recent events noted elsewhere on this site in relation to Debt Free Help for example.

[NEDCAB Lady]

Hello Nick

 

Thanx for the information link and positive comments on self help, we shall all have a read over at North East Derbyshire.

 

A

[Wintry]

Hi Wintry, sorry Ive not posted for a while - too busy reading http://www.fsa.gov.uk/library/policy/cp/2013/13-07.shtml The move from OFT to FCA regulation is going to have a huge inpact on both free and commercial debt advice providers, but esp the fee chargers. I know its over 200 pages but I'd urge people to have a "quick" read as its a crucially important document. I note your comments re self help; I for one am keen to see as many people who can use it, do so. I don't see it as something which detracts from commercial firms or free providers but as you know creditors tend not to be fans. The biggest "threat" to commercial DMC's is undoubtedly the FCA regime (see above). I suspect that the number of firms left in the market in 2 years time will be half what it is now as firms exit the market due tio increase costs of regulation, lack of profitability and greater regulatory scrutiny. And a good thing too from all points of view esp in the light of recent events noted elsewhere on this site in relation to Debt Free Help for example.

 

Hi Nick

 

Its been a while, hope you are OK:)

 

Plenty of reading as knowledge is the name of the game and power of course.

 

I have had a quick read but will need to study this and a few others more closely.

 

Yes, I fully understand your points on the creditors with self help (ford also quite rightly alludes to these) they like the orderly payments & paying systems for one.

 

However my experience is that they are increasingly accepting offers with the self managing method and as you are aware with informal DMPs they dont always play ball whoever you are with and that includes the fee, free and so called not for profit agencies.

 

You make some other interesting points that may have implications both in the near and distant future.

 

As previously predicted 2013 onwards is proving and will contniue to prove an interesting time as far as debt advice is concerned especially on the DMP front,

 

There is a genuine growing challenge from the slowly but surely expanding CAB online self help debt management system as you and the others I am pretty sure are quite aware.

 

The ace the card the CAB system has is that all the money goes to the creditors with no fees or kick backs to the free providers, the people using know that all their payments go to their creditors, they have control and flexiblity and also increasingly important is the educational aspect.

 

Hard to argue against those that want to use it, maybe thats why the silence, strange how Cashflow seemed to be touted but not so it would appear the CAB system?

 

Please anybody dont think Im against the free providers as I would recommend them everytime if someone did not want to self manage its just these are not always the only answer for the person in debt and on occasions for the adivser & agency concerned depending on individual circumstances of course.

 

There are also many people that have no choice other than to self manage or perhaps want more control & flexibility.

 

Choice is the key and the future will be what it will be

 

Does anybody know what happened to Cashflow by the way?

 

A long road ahead and just my opinions as always

 

Catch you later Nick

Edited March 21, 2013 by Wintry

[Guest]

hi wintry

fair points. as usual

i note specific explanation of 'less experienced' still not forthcoming never mind, says it all.

am not in the 'industry' as such, just posting from experience. and i would say only go to a fee charger as a last resort, its not really needed atm, and they seem to only want you if they can make a buck out of it either way. the cab etc can provide the authoritative means if required. just imo.

Edited March 21, 2013 by Ford

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Congratulations to AdviceUK

 

AdviceUK Sustainable Best Debt Advice Project wins IMA best new initiative Award 2013 (time certainly flys by)

 

http://www.adviceuk.org.uk/projects-and-resources/money-advice/sustainable_debt_advice

 

Its an interesting one thats been around a while I think and worth a read through in my opinion

 

Fair share contribution mentioned, similar concept in some way maybe to the now defunct CAB / CCCS DMP pilot partnership from a year or so ago (whatever happened to that?

 

Think PP are in some way involved with the fair share payment stuff:)

 

It is all getting rather interesting behind the scenes on the Debt Management Plan front

 

Keep looking in folks

Edited May 24, 2013 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Just a word to say that the CAB Online Debt Remedy / Self Help DMP / Advice & Info resource has recently been upgraded with a number of new features added.

 

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/

 

Also, I understand that it is likely that a new section to the Self Help Debt Management Plan is on course to be added some time next week, the idea being to make it easier for those that wish to switch over to or have no realistic alternative other than to Self Administering a Debt Management Plan.

 

It could be a little controversial (or perhaps not) but the proof will no doubt be in the pudding and demand is rising.

 

Nothing stays the same in debt advice with rumours abound.

 

My view is that it is all about giving people as much help as possible, choice and the tools & support to do it, and where possible: Independent, impartial & FREE of course.

 

Guilty your honour

 

My opinions

Edited August 3, 2013 by Wintry

[Peterbard]

I keep saying this, but I agree with you. I've actually recommended the new site to someone today - it looks good once the new look has 'hit you.'

 

The only bit I question above at present is your comment about people going onto a self managed DMP if they, "have no real alternative."

 

I find it hard to envisage a situation where a person would be in the position of having no alternative with so many different sources of free advice around.

 

The only other thing I would say, which I have no doubt was purely an oversight on your part, is that the advice should be of a high quality as well.

[Wintry]

I keep saying this, but I agree with you. I've actually recommended the new site to someone today - it looks good once the new look has 'hit you.'

 

The only bit I question above at present is your comment about people going onto a self managed DMP if they, "have no real alternative."

 

I find it hard to envisage a situation where a person would be in the position of having no alternative with so many different sources of free advice around.

 

The only other thing I would say, which I have no doubt was purely an oversight on your part, is that the advice should be of a high quality as well.

 

Hi

 

Thank you for the positive reply

 

The changes went on a couple of weeks ago with a bit of tweeking still going on I understand but it looks OK.

 

It is likely that there will also be a section added on making it easier and smoother to switch over to self administering sometime this week I am reliably told and maybe the bar will be raised further as a result.

 

I'm not saying there is not help out there from other agencies or people as I know there is.

 

What I mean by no real alternative to self manage are for reasons such as below (I appreciate that there are other agencies, support groups and people that will help)

 

* where people have no or low disposable income that does not meet the entry criteria of certain providers

 

* where people do not have enough creditors to meet DMP entry criteria

 

* little or no disposable income coupled with priority debts (including urgent situations)

 

* their disposable income has reduced below the levels as above part way through the DMP (there could be a number of reasons for this)

 

* the plan fails due to circumstances, for example: debts & creditors not included in the original plan

 

* payments not sustained resulting in further debts (including for emergencies & repairs etc) or the incurring of priority debts as a result of trying to keep payments up to date.

 

* payments not really sustainable at the outset and the debtor leaving the plan

 

* temporary plans while awaiting improvement or preparing to go into a formal solution such as bankruptcy or a DRO.

 

* token offers

 

There may be others I have forgot

 

With regard to your point on high quality advice, yes, and with the best interests of the client solution wise.

 

Hope this goes some way to answer your points and questions

 

Catch you later and once again thanks

 

My opinions & views

Edited August 5, 2013 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Just following on a touch...

 

This December 2011 CCCS (now Stepchange) comment / report and highlighted quotes from it makes very interesting reading and in my opinion also seems to back up some of the points made in my last post

 

http://www.stepchange.org/Portals/0/...S-response.pdf

 

Q16. Do the current debt relief options strike the right balance between

the needs of the debtor and the rights of creditors?

Q17. What problems are encountered with the current range of debt

solutions and how could they be improved to ensure all debtors have an

option and that the choices are clear?

 

There are issues specific to each of the current debt solutions. However,

focusing on priorities, CCCS’s own experience is that the most pressing

problem is the large proportion of debtors for whom none of the existing

solutions is appropriate.

During the first eight months of 2010, of the people we counselled by

telephone, less than half of clients qualified for a Debt Management Plan

(DMP), an IVA, bankruptcy, or a DRO.

 

The clients concerned are mainly those whose budgets are in deficit based on

essential expenditure alone. In other words, there is no income surplus after

essential expenditure to support a debt relief solution. Often, the only option

we were able to recommend was for the clients to try to increase their income.

CCCS has already started to take action to help these particularly vulnerable

clients through its pioneering token payments arrangement. Our own

research into token payment clients shows that 87% of those we set up on

such an arrangement had experienced some sort of income shock and 83%

were in deficit budget at the time the arrangement was set up.

Our experience with the token payments scheme underlines the need for

Government to consider on a wider scale how this most vulnerable client

group can best be helped.

 

Q26. How often do debtors move from one remedy to another and could

the costs be reduced in any way?

 

There is clearly some movement between remedies and failure to adhere to

remedies for their full duration. For example, many CCCS clients to not stick

to their DMPs for the full duration. Around half drop out due to entering self

administration and half because they are no longer able to pay. If helpful

CCCS could undertake further research on the experience of its own clients.

 

 

With regard to the CCCS 'pioneering token payment arrangement', my understanding is that this actually ceased some time ago now. I could be wrong and if so I will aplogise and would more than welcome to be stand corrected (by Stepchange hopefully)

 

Also the economic climate has got worse since December 2011 the way I see things.

 

My opinions as always

Edited August 5, 2013 by Wintry

[Peterbard]

They still do it - relaunched in June:

 

http://www.stepchange.org/Mediacentre/Pressreleases/Tokenpaymentsservice.aspx

[Wintry]

They still do it - relaunched in June:

 

http://www.stepchange.org/Mediacentre/Pressreleases/Tokenpaymentsservice.aspx

 

Hi

 

Thank you very much for that information:)

 

Interesting read

 

I wonder what has prompted the 'relaunch'?

 

Nevertheless it is a positive

 

'It is intended to last for 12 months or less, but may be extended if the debtor is working to increase their income'

 

I wonder if they will they extend the service to people who approach them at the start in the same situation?

Edited August 5, 2013 by Wintry

[Peterbard]

In my opinion that would be good to see, but I don't know. That bit of breathing space can make a lot of difference. It's something I do quite a bit, but being so small, perhaps I'm able to invest more time to each client and get to know them in a different way. In my experience, creditors respond very positively if they know there is likely to be a solution around the next corner.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Dodgeball

[Wintry]

In my opinion that would be good to see, but I don't know. That bit of breathing space can make a lot of difference. It's something I do quite a bit, but being so small, perhaps I'm able to invest the more time to each client and get to know them in a different way. In my experience, creditors respond very positively if they know there is likely to be a solution around the next corner.

 

Hi

 

Yes, it would be good to see:)

 

Yes, agree with you on the rest

 

I am off to get down for the night now

 

Best wishes & no doubt catch you later

[Wintry]

They still do it - relaunched in June:

 

http://www.stepchange.org/Mediacentre/Pressreleases/Tokenpaymentsservice.aspx

 

Hi

 

I have just had another read through this -

 

mmm, it is quite interesting when you study the content (oh cynical me:)

 

It is early days since June obviously but I wonder how this is implemented - criteria wise etc

 

I should imagine that there are people who due to a change in circumstances would then have options other than a Debt Management Plan too.

 

Will do my homework and ask around

 

Of course Stepchange could always consider doing the honours of coming on here and explain the finer points so to speak:)

 

My opinions again

Edited August 5, 2013 by Wintry

[Peterbard]

I think we'd all welcome that. Perhaps an email to them with a link to this thread - I don't know if that sort of thing is allowed here or not.

[Wintry]

I think we'd all welcome that. Perhaps an email to them with a link to this thread - I don't know if that sort of thing is allowed here or not.

 

Hi

 

Yes, agree

 

It would be handy to know how this all works (the token offer scheme that is)

 

I am pretty sure they know all about this thread and a few other ones on here

 

These are very interesting times indeed!

 

I might give them a bell sometime this week just in case and see if we can 'sort' something out so to speak:)

 

Think they are going to have to 'break cover' either way sooner or later

 

Just my opinions and dry but 'lovable rogue' type & sense of humour

Edited August 5, 2013 by Wintry

[NEDCAB Lady]

Hi all

 

A note on our DMP & Online Debt Remedy / Option Resource if this is ok

 

A few weeks ago the system underwent a fairly substantial upgrade

 

Since the upgrade we have had a fair amount of feedback, most of which has been very positive

 

If anyone wishes to contribute on the feedback front, either positive or negative it would be taken in a much appreciated manner.

 

Our online system continues to be a success for the bureau and for our clients especially and is available FREE for anyone to use.

 

We continue to progress the system and will always try to keep people informed the best we can.

 

A big thank to you everyone who has already helped us here at North East Derbyshire Citizens Advice Bureau

 

x

 

Amy

 

NED-CAB

[Peterbard]

Excellent! The long awaited update is here - how very exciting! I'll take a look, and will no doubt be referring clients to you as, IMO, it was far and away the best tool out there for slef managed DMP's. Indeed, I always encouraged clients who'd come to me for a managed DMP to look at what was there first, and many headed that route. Unless it's been ruined, it should be brilliant.

 

A summary of the main changes would be helpful.

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Very Interesting times on the DMP front with strong rumours again surfacing as to what is going on behind the scenes

 

The much touted IMA award winning Adviceuk / Payplan initiative seems to have gone a little quiet with mutterings abound - anybody know how it is going?

 

http://www.adviceuk.org.uk/sustainable-debt-advice-project/

 

The IMA Award winning Citizens Advice online Self Administering Debt Management Plan system is going from strength to strength I am reliably told with more people successfully doing it themselves and more developments to come.

 

http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk/moneyadvice/dmptour.asp

 

The IMA Award winning Cashflow seems to have gone quiet (I don't really know many who actually now use this system to be honest)

 

http://www.cashflow.uk.net/

 

Some interesting news coming out regarding Stepchange and their 2013 (think that might be two now) DMP budget trigger figures review, just looking through them:)

 

The fee chargers have their protocol for us all to look forward and into

 

Keep watching this space folks, things are about to hot up considerably once the wrangling comes to an end.

 

My views

Edited October 26, 2013 by Wintry

[sequenci]

Hi Wintry, I'll do some fact-finding regarding Cashflow and will report back.

 

I'm sure you know this already but the Scottish Government have just agreed that CFS should be the figures used for the new improved Trust Deeds.

 

The sooner SC go with CFS the better IMO.

 

Have a fabulous weekend

[Wintry]

Hi Wintry, I'll do some fact-finding regarding Cashflow and will report back.

 

I'm sure you know this already but the Scottish Government have just agreed that CFS should be the figures used for the new improved Trust Deeds.

 

The sooner SC go with CFS the better IMO.

 

Have a fabulous weekend

 

Hi

 

Cheers

 

Oh yes, the pressure is indeed mounting, just why don't Stepchange use or at least embrace the CFS has to be a fair question?

 

If Peer (or anyone else from Stepchange) is looking in maybe he / they would consider commenting on the situation?

 

Me and a growing number of others think that you are gonna have to soon:)

 

The green light is near now but you know that don't yer?

 

My opinions as usual

Edited October 26, 2013 by Wintry

[Peterbard]

I hope you're right. I can see no good reason for StepChange to be out of sync with every other body, not least the courts!

 

I've tweeted to invite people from SC to join and comment about 3 times, but sadly there has been zero response. One wonders why?

[Wintry]

I hope you're right. I can see no good reason for StepChange to be out of sync with every other body, not least the courts!

 

I've tweeted to invite people from SC to join and comment about 3 times, but sadly there has been zero response. One wonders why?

 

Hi

 

I wonder if they would like to comment on this ? It has quite a few of us scratching our heads!

 

 

 

3.2 Clothing & Footwear

The minimum guideline will be set to zero for single/ couple budgets, and adult multipliers. A substantial portion of clients spent the minimum value or less, so adjusting the minimum to zero will allow clients who want to spend less, to do so, and will also reduce the number of client budgets in deficit. The £9 minimum guideline will be retained for child multipliers, as children will necessitate spending by continually growing out of clothes.

All guideline and maximum values remain the same as 2012.

[Wintry]

Hi

 

I wonder if they would like to comment on this ? It has quite a few of us scratching our heads!

 

 

 

3.2 Clothing & Footwear

The minimum guideline will be set to zero for single/ couple budgets, and adult multipliers. A substantial portion of clients spent the minimum value or less, so adjusting the minimum to zero will allow clients who want to spend less, to do so, and will also reduce the number of client budgets in deficit. The £9 minimum guideline will be retained for child multipliers, as children will necessitate spending by continually growing out of clothes.

All guideline and maximum values remain the same as 2012.

 

Hi

 

This is what a Stepchange spokesperson recently had to say about the basic cost of living

 

http://www.stepchange.org/Mediacentre/Pressreleases/Inflationfalls.aspx

 

Interesting, maybe, when you think about it?

 

The O/R expenditure allowance guidance in bankruptcy for clothing and footwear is also worth a look after reading Stepchanges figures or trying their online 'Debt Remedy' Tool

 

My view

Edited October 31, 2013 by Wintry