Diddled into giving back car HELP PLEASE!! bluestone/close credit management

[dx100uk]

can you check your CRA file too

see my sig

 

i wonder if it still shows

 

should as you are still paying

 

dx

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

A lot of what you think you should have been given copies of is not relevant to a SAR.

 

An SAR relates to personal data about you so, for example, the documentation relating to the sale of the car won't have any of your data on it so won't be included in an SAR.

 

These documents would really be revealed on disclosure;

however, why don't you just ask explicitly for copies?

There's no real reason for them to be suppressed.

[mfg]

They haven't even said who their client is or provided an address for them. Because MG went bust I would assume it's not them.

 

MG are a manufacturer, not a finance company, so that fact that they went bust is neither here nor there.

 

Finance for MG was provided by First National Motor Finance trading as MG Rover Financial Services. First National stopped trading in 2003 and closed completely in 2008 or 9. All the loans that were still open at this time were sold to Close Credit Management. This is who their client would be, and who you should direct any further SARs to.

[HadEnough]

Sorry I am somewhat confused with your comments, I would of tgought that the SAR would have provided me with a copy of anything I signed with the credit co as well as a balance sheet.

dx you said earlier that the credit co will inherit all rights and contracts etc. Surely that means that there is no 'client'. Just themselves and should have all agreements, etc

But someone elses comment contradicts this. Confused!!

Can you tell where to go from here please?

I will order my credit file but don't understand the significance.

[dx100uk]

the idea of the cra file is to see if this debt is REAL

it might well not show - i bet it doesn't

 

pers.

i think you have been cash cowed

this debt was written off years ago

 

if it dont show - stop paying.

dx

[HadEnough]

Thanks for the reply, I will have a look.

Does that mean I won't be able to get my money back if its not on the credit file?

And will i have no chance of getting agreements and other info

 

i need to start a claim?

[HadEnough]

Well,

I have replied to bluestone aka CCM asking them to send the rest of the information as the client they refer to is not trading anymore.

 

I have stopped the DD which has instigated phonecalls from them and put the account in dispute.

 

There should be a copy of the agreement/ surrender letter I signed not to mention orginal agreement and PPI details.

 

Lets see what they say....

[HadEnough]

Well

 

I received another batch of paperwork containing the signed surrender letter plus notes,

however they are very vague in content but it does say on one of these pages a 1/3 paid,

which means that the guy knew when he came to see me that I didn't need to have paid 1/2 as he told me..

 

By coincidence and accident I answered the phone to them today

but instead of them asking why I had stopped the DD and did I want to make a payment,

they were ringing to offer me a settlement figure of 50% to clear the debt.

 

I said no thanks and that the account was indispute, they asked why, so I briefly explained.

 

He unwittingly informed me that they had bought the debt and first national have ceased trading,

I asked why I had no notice of assignment or any information infact to prove thay owned the debt.

 

He said it was because it was six years past and any info prior had been destroyed.

 

I also mentioned the PPI to which he said 'Its in the small print that self employed people can't claim'. LOL.

 

He obviously doesn't watch TV or listen to the radio...

Or use his brain cells very often....

I mentioned the fact that I had been told that I needed to have paid more than1/2 to the phone advisor

who said they didn't have any of the paperwork with this info on and if this is the case that I should send them a copy and they will address it.

 

PPI cost £39 p/mth!!

[dx100uk]

well well how surprising!! NOT!

 

its darn shame you didn't record that call

admitting it was older than 6yrs - ruddy spoofers.

 

i'd write them a stern letter demanding all you payments back that you have made to them.

 

dx

[HadEnough]

Thanx DX, I'm gonna get a friend to post for me in a sec as he's been helping me and thinks he's found some problems which might change thing a bit.

[HadEnough]

Hi everyone, I

'm updating HadEnough's thread as I've been helping her try to get to the bottom of this,

and I was also there when she was "diddled" into surrendering her car.

 

Just to give more info which might help you to help her (and me) ,,,,,,

 

The agreement is a,, "conditional sale agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974",

below are the figures as copied from the agreement,,,,,,,,

Cash price of vehicle = £10747.43

deposit -£400.00 this was old car

total advance payment= £400.00

amount of credit = £10347.43 so far so good

add;

interest £1681.19

credit facility fee £85.00

total charge for credit £1766.19 still good (well not really, see problems with interest below).

 

* £12113.62 guessing this is the total of the above as it adds up.

Total amount payable = #£12513.62

 

so the * total is fine but £400 has appeared out of nowhere here #. Possible gap or PP insurance? Not gap as it cost £199.00.

 

Problem with interest on loan.

I'm starting to doubt my sanity now because depending on which calc I use I get various figures,

none seem to match so I know I must be working it out wrong,

so if some-one would be kind enough to check my method and figures i'd be gratefull.

 

How i worked it out was on the basis of HadEnough paying for 36 months and then a balloon payment after 36 months.

So if i go with the amount of credit figure of 10347.43 which is the correct way,

then total interest @ 8.1% over the 36 months would be £1342.79 not the figure on the agreement of £1681.19.

 

This leaves a difference of £338.40 more for HadEnough to pay.

 

If it does turn out that they've charged to much interest right from the start would I be right to assume that all monies paid must be returned

because the agreement was fatally flawed from the start?

 

I ask because it would save her having to argue that the VS was obtained through deceit?

 

Following the same lines of thinking it would save her having to claim seperately for PPI and charges?

 

Now the repayments.

Ok so 35 payments of £218.67, plus the first payment of £303.67, which is 36 payments, equals £7957.12.

 

Now add the £4156.50 balloon payment and I get £12113.62 which is the lower figure above

so why the extra £400.00 of the higher figure?

 

I'm not sure if this makes any difference to her but I don't like figures which look like they shouldn't be there.

 

This hopefully might not be needed but I'll ask anyway.

The only info I can find on the PPI just says word for word,,,

 

life and critical illness monthly premium = £13.12.

life and unemployment monthly premium = £26.24.

 

Over 36 months this adds up to £1416.96 so this can't be the reason for any of the above discrepancies (I think).

 

At this point I was going to ask, have they charged interest on this?

But from the figures above they don't seem to be taking these payments at all?

They've said nothing about PPI payments so am I going mad?

 

I'll have to check her bank statements to see if a seperate payment was going out for this but I think I may not understand all this as well as I thought I did.

 

Thanks for reading and all help will be great even if it's to correct me

[HadEnough]

Ahh just realised my mistake with the £400, it's the deposit lol, just ignore that bit plz It's amazing what you miss while staring at it, then notice after you write it down

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Where do you get the interest rate of 8.1% from?

[jimbob67]

Hi, thats the APR on the agreement.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

Ah ok you'll never be able to work out the interest from that then, the APR calculations are incredibly difficult. Actually, it isn't an interest rate at all, it's the cost of borrowing the money and includes not just the interest, but the facility fee and any option to purchase fee. It's made doubly difficult because it's not a linear agreement, i.e. you don't pay it back by equal instalments so the capital does not reduce uniformly. There is almost certainly a website you can use where you plug in all the figures and it will tell you what the APR is if you want to check it is correct.

[dx100uk]

sri what are you try ing to figure out?

 

they've offered a discount

so you def owe no-one anything anymore ......

 

dx

[HadEnough]

Hi again, Thanks Gaston I'll get on it and see if we can make sense of it all.

 

DX, I know I owe nothing, unfortunately I doubt Knowing it and just stopping payment is going to make this go away.

So I'm gonna need to find a genuine reason to stop paying.

 

Then I have of course, to use your own term, been cash cowed, so I want that money back.

I'm gonna have to build a case to prove everything I can that is wrong with what's happened so I'm starting with the basics, such as checking their figures are correct.

 

To be honest with the very limited paperwork I've managed to squeeze out of them

I'll have a job to prove anything and any claim is likely to end up as an estimate,

so if their figures are wrong that's my best chance.

 

Because of this lack of paperwork even working out the PPI is going to be difficult because it's on a different page of the agreement

and doesn't seem to be included in my repayments or even in their figures.

 

Then we go on to the unlawful charges, on the limited paperwork I have there's no clues as to how much they charge,

 

I can work out when she's been charged from her bank statements but it doesn't tell me how much they've added onto the account which they've then charged interest on.

So that's why I'm checking the figures work out because it's just about the only thing I have to work with.

 

All I have is a very poor photocopy of the agreement and about 10 pages of screen shots basically showing the run up to the repo and the VS form.

And while I know that the repo was very dodgy and they lied and deceived her

( I was there and asked all the right questions, he just told us we we're wrong and if she didn't sign there and then,

their litigation team would be filing that day and she would incur extra costs and get a ccj against her)

it would end up a case of "he said, she said", and we don't fancy going to court with what amounts to hearsay.

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

no bother we've got lots to investigate yet

 

i'll ask someone to pop as well

 

dx

[HadEnough]

Ok, so I uploaded all here

had enough all docs .pdf

[ims21]

Attachment in post #51 unapproved....personal details showing

 

 

So this PPI....was it paid as a separate amount from the finance i.e. a fixed amount each month featuring on the bank statements?

 

ims

Edited February 4, 2012 by ims21

[dx100uk]

thread tidied and atts sorted to one pdf above

 

dx

[mfg]

Attachment in post #51 unapproved....personal details showing

 

 

So this PPI....was it paid as a separate amount from the finance i.e. a fixed amount each month featuring on the bank statements?

 

ims

 

If it was then I can guarantee 100% that it was not attached to the finance agreement in any way.

 

The PPI on these agreements, if it was indeed taken up, was added to the normal monthly payments and taken as one total sum, e.g. if the monthly finance payment was £200 and the PPI payment was £30, the total sum of £230 would have been taken each month by direct debit. I've had my own experience with First National, so I know this to be absolutely true.

 

What is the monthly finance payment on the agreement document (I can't make it out)? Does it differ from the normal monthly payments on bank statements? If it doesn't - no PPI.

[dx100uk]

yea ok calm down bud....

 

we know how ppi works..

 

dx

[HadEnough]

Thanks for the replies,

Sorry not got back earlier but had a bit of family problem,

 

to answer some points.

 

The monthly payments were what was on the agreement (£218.67 pm),

 

I can find no payments going out for the PPI separately so looks like none was paid, which I'm surprised about because they told me it was compulsory.

 

Thanks for sorting the docs for dx, I'm not so good with technology.

 

I think my next move will be to write to them asking if they are seriously collecting without anything to say they can collect

and to try to get an unequivocal answer about "their client" and the destroyed docs, ie civil evidence act ect.

[HadEnough]

I thought I'd up date on what's happened which is not a lot.

 

They have refused to send me any info what so ever.

 

i'm thinking that I will just send a LBA asking for the full amount of the car which was around 12k

and inform them that they have forced me into doing this because of their refusal,

also saying unlawful rescission of contract and warning that I'll be using civil procedure to get the info they are unlawfully withholding from me.

 

I'll also be asking for a refund of the money I paid them for the SAR..

 

Any thoughts?