CapOne Case - Ive Started... CLAIM FORM NOW ISSUED By Capone ** SUCCESSFUL OUTCOME **

[mrbrooks]

Hey everyone, tomorrow brings me to roughly 14 days since my Letter Before Action (I sent it Signed For Delivery on the 31st July) and have received no response of any description yet and this is now a total of 28 days since I originally requested the Unlawful Charges back from CapOne, which I think is a reasonable amount of time to expect a reasonable response of some description regarding the claim.

 

Just to note, the only response I have received was on the 20th July, which is 8 days after I sent the first letter, and it was simply saying we have received your letter and need more time, another 2-4 weeks to look into your situation, blah blah blah... thank you...

 

So my question is this, what happens now, where do I go?, what do I need to read?, what should I be doing now? etc etc, can someone point me in the right direction pls...

 

thanks

 

mrbrooks

[ims21]

If you intend to go to court then you issue against them.

 

There are many threads around in the Cap 1 forum to read and also in the other bank forums.

 

Have a read of 3 and 4 in my signature too.

[mrbrooks]

Hi ims, thanks, Ive just downloaded all the forms and guidance sheets from the MOJ website, so will take a look at them and drop in when Im more confused, haha...

 

Also is there anything to be done about CapOne not responding in the allotted time??? or is this just a dead horse???

 

mrbrooks

[mrbrooks]

OK, im confused, RE: 3) An alternative is to start your action on-line at http://www.Moneyclaim.gov.uk You will need a credit card to pay the summons fee. The space given for the Particulars of Claim in this method are limited and you should seek advise when either altering our templated version or producing your own.

This method can ONLY be used if money is the only thing being claimed. However, you must make sure that the bank has received a schedule of your charges at least twice during your preparatory correspondence.

 

First, does it HAVE to be a CC??? Debit Cards are no good???

 

Second, what Schedule Of Charges?? and when exactly am I supposed to send/have sent this Schedule Of Charges???

 

mrbrooks

 

--EDIT--

How do i go about fixing up a SofC???

[ims21]

Debit card is ok.

 

Schedule of charges is your spreadsheet showing what you are claiming back.

 

This court claim you are considering, is this for unlawful charges or PPI?

[mrbrooks]

Hi ims, this is for the Unlawful Charges claim, the PPI Claim is currently with the FOS...

 

I do not believe I have sent them the SofC 2x times, I sent one with the original letter but not since, should I resend a copy?

 

mrbrooks

[ims21]

Ah ok...got you.

 

You update your schedule of charges to reflect the interest right up to the date you issue. That will then be the figure that you claim through the courts.

 

If Cap1 have not responded to your lba within the time scale you set then that is up to them.

 

What is the up to date value of the claim?

[mrbrooks]

Hi ims, the current value upto today is £507.59 ..

 

However I am a little confused, I have only put the charges since 2007, as these were clearly shown in the statements from that date. I have output from their systems showing partial statements prior to 2007 but they contain no actual transaction data, only a PAID IN/OUT and BALANCE. Now im assuming that any month my mums account shows and overlimit, she would have been charged and any following month showing overlimit, she probably got charged an overlimit fee and a late payment (as the account is still not showing as being inside the credit limit)...

 

Would it be ok to put these charges onto the SofC and include them in the claim??? Even though I have not shown them on the original claim??? These charges go back to about 2002-2003...

 

 

mrbrooks

[ims21]

I would suggest that you only claim back the amounts that you can evidence since you may have to justify your claim amount to the Judge.

[mrbrooks]

Hi ims, im just assuming that, CapOne, never 'let her off' the over limits and late payments prior to 2006 and just wondered if it was worth pursuing, but I spose its just simpler and albeit safer, to keep to the 'facts' and we have those statements from mid 2006-2012 so we know for sure these fees were applied...

 

mrbrooks

[ims21]

Unless you can get more data out of Cap1

[mrbrooks]

The majority of the data I have, is from the SAR we obtained in Nov 2011, so I reckon what I have, is all they are going to give me or are willing to give...

 

I think I will stick to the visible charges and push forward with the £507+ , and the PPI, which is a nice large sum (around £11,700) so this is what I'm really hoping to win, as this would kill all the outstanding liability (around £4900) for my mum and hopefully give her a little payout on top...We shall of course see... I'm not expecting CapOne to just say yeah OK have this big cheque...

 

mrbrooks

[mrbrooks]

Hi all, updates, re the PPI, the case is now with the FOS, I spoke with the adjudicator and she asked me to clarify a few things, like my moms cancer dates, angioplasty operation, quitting smoking on the doctors advice etc etc...anyway she said her initial feeling and indication was the case would most likely be upheld and she was now going to contact Cap One to get their take on it all...so we shall see what happens next...just out of interest, she has not contacted them yet, and it is now almost 14 weeks since Cap One had my initial claim, and the only correspondence i have had is on the 29th June asking for another 8-10 weeks, nothing since...

 

Ok re garding the unlawful charges, Cap One have been an ass over this, to be expected I suppose, I sent an LBA about 4 weeks ago now but havent actually done the deed, anyway they sent me this > [ATTACH=CONFIG]38207[/ATTACH]

 

I know I have to force them down the court route, but I have a couple of questions, how likely are they to win and what have others who have won, done in order to win? ie, what points do you argue and what points should I be prepared to defend, cos im sure they will try to pull the wool over our eye wherever poss...

 

Secondly, any thoughts on this signature nonsense, i am loathe to send them anything official as I do not see why they should be objecting now after over 10 months of correspondence, on top of this, when I called them last month they still tried to convince me that my mom had not goven consent for me to talk to them, i had to dig out the letters while they where on the phone so they could read them to prove that we had and that we had already made a complaint about them refusing to allow me contact etc...

 

Should I send a formal complaint regarding authority? asking for an explanation? should I ignore the silly request for signatures, they tried this before and I refused and just got my mom to sign a letter that had a anti tamper on it...

 

Thoughts most welcome...

 

mrbrooks

[mrbrooks]

Hey everyone, just got this > [ATTACH=CONFIG]38331[/ATTACH]

 

I know they are likely to try to deny any responsibility for it (PPI) but just feel a little worried that this is all going to fall on its @rse...is there anything i should be looking at strengthening here, for example, they claim they don't call cos they have no obligation to do so and the decision is solely down to you the customer to make your own informed decision, but i find this, its none of our fault attitude they continually push a little slack and surely they have a responsibility to her, as in duty of care, to make sure she not being sold things that are of no use etc etc...so like i say, is there anything I should be making sure to include, to be doing, pointing out etc...

 

Thoughts anyone???

 

mrbrooks

 

-- EDIT --

 

Also, any thoughts on the signature thing in the above post (#138)??? Esp considering they have since contacted us despite their concerns over her signature? Also in the letter re PPI they state her PPI was cancelled in 2004, yet on her statements it shows it was still active into late 2010...

 

mrbrooks

Edited September 18, 2012 by mrbrooks
Additions

[seriously fed up]

The sig thing is bollocks - they are trying this one on with me. They have corresponded with me at this address for goodness knows how long. All they are trying to do is to cause delay. If you go to Data Protection and make a complaint, how long is it going to be before there is a determination on that? And how confident do you feel that Crap1 couldnt do a good enough job of obfuscation to avoid losing? They suggest they want a "certified copy" of the sig on your passport or driver's licence. Two things here

 

1. i dont know about you, but particularly with the passport (drivers' licence too?), you have to cram your sig into that little box (its a bit like signing the strip on a bank card) so it looks nothing like your signature does normally
   
2. the concern is that they photoshop your signature from your passport (say) to a compliant agreement. But passport and driving licences both have distinctive backgrounds, and I THINK with photoshop it would be hard to lift the sig without the distinctive background, which makes me think they are just trying to delay/ test your endurance. I might be wrong about this - my knowledge of photoshop is limited
   

On the other hand, if they have already accepted a copy of your sig certified by your mom then you could try reminding them of that - or just do that again (or have it certified by a lawyer, or a minister of religion). I think they are just trying to kick the can down the road as far as they can.

As for whether they can win re charges, I dont see how they can. Your case would be how much does this cost - couple of sheets of paper, envelope, stamp, additional borrowing costs on the bank for a couple of days. Estimates of these costs vary from a few pence to maybe a couple of pounds - but not what they charge (and, even worse what they have charged in the past). This is why I suspect that what they are at is a gambit - they are trying to delay in the hope you give up. In the same way, they will take the fees charge as far as they can in the hope that you blink first and give up (or settle for a lesser amount). What they wont want is a decision against them. They also wont want to have to go into court and run the risk of the judge requiring them to set out their costs in a public forum. So my guess is that as it gets closer to court they will make increasing offers - this is what is happening with a case involving Crap1 up here. Its a bit like deal or no deal.

[mrbrooks]

Hi seriously fed up, re the sig thing, we've already been through it, which is in part why I am surprised they have brought it up, yet again, and consider this, they have since responded to my PPI claim, so there is no consistency in their approach, surely this should be brought up and reported???

 

Anyway, I'm going to respond with something along the lines of 'Dont talk such BallCocks and if you are really concerned why not make a formal request and why continue to respond to other contact and correspondence???''...My real concern here (re the charges) is that I have read of Cap One actually winning these cases recently, why and how I do not know (if any one has any source material or readable stuff pls point me to it)...

 

My biggest concern right now, is the rejection of the PPI, and I am back to doubting whether we can win this thing...esp after reading this > http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/ppi-loan-insurance#steps

 

Maybe im just tired...

 

mrbrooks

Edited September 18, 2012 by mrbrooks

[mrbrooks]

I was wondering about this yesterday after someone else I know asked me this very question whilst we were chatting about my own situation with CapOne and my Mum, so I figured there may be a CAG member who might just know...

 

The question was, If I go to court to get my unlawful/penalty charges back, does this mean I am accepting that I have an agreement with the bank/cc company and therefore cannot dispute the validity of the CCA at a later date if I so choose?

 

Now of course my answer was, I have not got a clue, but it did get me wondering...

 

Any thoughts anyone???

[mrbrooks]

Hi all just wondered if any one has got any comments on posts #141 & #142 ???

 

On another note, CapOne have just sent us another £50.00 compensation regarding refusing on multiple occasions to deal with me on my mothers behalf, even though their systems notes show me clearly listed...

 

mrbrooks

[mrbrooks]

Hey everyone, a couple of updates, PPI claim still with FOS, I haven't yet done the court proceedings re unlawful charges as I could not afford itm but reckon I might need to get onto it asap (See below)...Also had a couple of letters telling me they dont like my moms signature, yet they have sent 2 letters in between the 'signature' letters regarding other stuff, so clearly are playing games here...

 

The most pressing concern, is this letter from Bryan Carters...[ATTACH]39142[/ATTACH]...Any thoughts and advice about what to do re this/next?

 

I was considering making a formal statement something along the lines of 'Invalid CCA' Im not sure if it is a valid one or not, but figure it will give a few more weeks, then I will follow up with the proceedings for unlawful charges and dispute the amount they claim is outstanding...On top of this, if the PPI is upheld it comes to about 12K and with unlawful charges removed she only realy owes them 4K so am wondering how to go about saying, im not paying anything until the FOS have completed their investigation, until CAPONE have been to court to prove the validity of the CCA and then been to court to refute the unlawful charges...

 

Thoughts and input most appreciated as ever...

 

Mrbrooks

[Bandit127]

Seems you might be about to get a county court claim.

 

Bryan Carter will back out as the first sign of a defence - the case will probably be continued by CapOne.

 

You could have a look on the legal issues forum for examples of what the process is and what you are likely to be facing.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?170-Legal-Issues

 

Having read quite a few threads on there it seems that there is a strict process to follow if you decide to defend any potential claim. If you comply with the process the odds seem to be quite good that your defence will be successful.

 

I hope I am wrong - but I suspect the debt is in the hands of Bryan Carter for one reason only...

[mrbrooks]

Hi Bandit, yeah this is what I thought, they are going to test us through CC, the real question is what do I do about it?.?.?

 

I'm not sure what which path to take, I really want to hold out long enough for a decision from the FOS re the PPI, because there is a genuine dispute regarding this, also I am not convinced the CCA is in fact valid anyway because it goes back to 1999 and it doesn't look like the prescribed terms are on it...in addition to this, I did wonder if i dispute the validity of the CCA and the court agree with me, how this would affect any further claims with regard to unlawful charges and PPI repayments? Any thoughts ??? IF the CCA is deemed invalid, then does this mean any future claim on our part is no longer valid?

 

I would rather not knobble the chance to reclaim the PPI as its a big claim going back to 1999/2000 and of course amounts to around 3x times what she owes them. I do believe they are moving to force our hand so I have to do something, the question is what do i do next? Should I move to claim the CCA is invalid? Should I just make a claim for the unlawful charges? AM I allowed to make this claim as part of my defence or do I have to make my own case through the courts? For example I would like to dispute the outstanding balance and make the claim for unlawful charges, can I do this as a defence, say I do not accept she owes £4,964, due to unlawful charges etc, I know this means we probably have somehow accepted the debt and the CCA in that case is valid... etc. etc....

 

Also Im a bit peeved at the fact this letter is dated 29th OCt, it arrived Thurs 1st Nov, which has given us Fri/Sat/Sun to deal with it, this is surely out of order...

 

Anyway as ever look forward to comments and thoughts...

 

thanks

 

mrbrooks

[seriously fed up]

I wouldnt be as sure as Bandit about the County Court claim - what Bryan Carter says and what Bryan Carter does are two quite different things. It could well be a threatogram - two reasons -

 

1. "This matter will be referred for court proceedings to be issued on 05 Nov 2012" - not exactly we will be issue court proceedings - its the construction on "referred" that intrigues me
   
2. "If proceedings are issued," which suggests some doubt in their minds
   

In any event if its not a threatogram it shouldnt be long before we know.

In that case, I think its quite likely that the court will separate out

 

• whether or not an order can be issued against your mother requiring her to pay what they claim is owed
  
• the PPI claim (and I am not sure I would be all that confident of the FOS making a clear determination)
  

I think the court would be likely to treat these things as different. In any event, since we are working on the basis of Carter's letter not just being noise and that papers are issued, then it would be possible for you to counterclaim in court for the return of the PPI (no unlawful charges as well?) set against what they are claiming. If it looks like you have a strong case and if they lose its going to cost them big time, I wouldnt be surprised to see them run away (whether its Carter doing the representation or not).

So while I suspect that Carter is just issuing threats, my opinion would be "bring it on" as it does seem to me that if you can construct a sound case, they have a lot more to lose than you do (or your mother does) .

[Old Cogger]

they will refer to anybody for court proceedings, if I receive them I will shove them up their jacksy for you, but maybe somebody else MAY get a bit of paper to wipe thrir Axx,,?

[mrbrooks]

Hi seriously fed up, thanks for the reply, of course my mom is worried now, I suppose that was the idea of the letter, I told her we were most likely going to have to go to court at some point anyway, in order to dispute the unlawful charges if nothing else, I have not issued proceedings re the unlawful charges yet because quite simply we cannot afford to at this point, I would borrow the cash if it was desperate but I would rather not unless I really have to. Still she keeps asking me what we are doing about it,,,

 

So, though not actually relishing the thought of having to go to court, I am actually quite prepared to fight them tooth and nail, I was just hoping that we didn't have to and maybe the FOS would come through with a positive decision before it got this far.

 

So I have a few questions for the CAG members:

 

Regarding counter-claim, do we use this as our defence? i.e. as part of our defence against the CAPONE proceeding, do we state, outstanding balance is incorrect due to unlawful charges, request the unlawful charges be set against the outstanding balance claimed by CAPONE, also with respect to PPI our claim being somewhat 3 times what she owes them etc., our balance owed in our opinion is bigger than their balance owed etc. etc... Would I be able to put all this in as a defence for not paying and for withholding payment until the final balances and decisions have been made etc. etc...Also, will we have to pay anything at any time for the courts process?

 

Should I even mention validity of CCA? If so when? Im not denying she owes them some cash, but there is also a strong chance the original agreement is invalid because it invariably does not show the prescribed terms, and remember this was in 1999 she signed. They've had more than enough out of her over the years and I would just like to slow them down a bit if possible, but I don't want to knobble future proceedings such as PPI claim by going down this route...

 

Should I wait for them to begin proceedings before I mention the unlawful charges or should I try to hit them first with this before they hit us?

 

Should I post some of this in the legal forum or wait till we get the papers then post for more help in legal?

 

Re PPI, I am not sure if we have a strong case or not to be honest, she was clearly unsuitable for the PPI, due to having other sources of income if becoming sick, such as employer benefits and other insurance, she was already suffering from angina, having had an angioplasty in 1998/99, also having had cancer within 12 months of signing on for a CAPONE card, she was diagnosed in Dec, signed on CAPONE Jan, finished chemo Sept 2000.

 

She of course never told them cos she was desperate for money at the time, she also had been a heavy smoker for some years and was told to quit before the angioplasty in 1998, and remember this was in 1999/2000 she signed up so they were still in full flow of ripping people off with PPI...In addition to this, she was retired in 2002/03 on the grounds of ill health due to her various ailments, and in 2007 she went back to work part time. I asked why she did not claim and she said she didn't realise she could...in other words, another point to make is that nobody ever actually spoke to her about the policy in any form and clearly she did not fully understand the terminology nor how it would affect her, yes she could of asked but like many people, she believed they were looking out for her and would call if they needed to talk to her...

 

Also, I am pretty sure the TnCs of the PPI insurance they sent me, are NOT from 1999 but they do not have a date on them so I cannot be sure...I made a claim to CAPONE Re the PPI, here is the response > [ATTACH=CONFIG]39187[/ATTACH]

 

In addition to this last lot of nonsense from BC, they have sent out 2 letters saying they do not recognise the signature, yet 2 other letters responding to letters we have sent them, so do you think that since they have responded to other letters, dated between the 2 'signature' letters and one after, that we can just assume their position has changed and they no longer see this as an issue, otherwise why would they send out these other letters in response??? Im thinking on the lines of, if they try to make out she was avoiding contacting them and would not provide a signature, I will respond with, yes but you did respond to letter X and Y and if you are having concerns regarding her identity, then why are you sending out solicitors letters while you have no confirmation of her identity...

 

Finally, Mike, thanks for the comment, ha-ha, I would love to see them with their letters in their butt...a bit of light relief never goes wasted...

 

Anyway all, apologies for the long post but I hope someone can throw some ideas in...

 

mrbrooks

 

 

--- EDIT ---

 

Another thought I had, was if I make a claim for unlawful charges, this would bring the outstanding balance closer to £4000, her limit is £4500, she would therefore no longer be over her limit, in addition to this, when they defaulted her, the unlawful charges amounted to around £700 which if adjusted, would also have brought her under her limit and therefore no default issued, should I be pursuing this? IS there anything I should do re this? what's the process? is it worth it etc.Can Also once the unlawful charges are redeemed can I make a claim to have the default amount adjusted properly to show the true amount at default date etc..

Edited November 6, 2012 by mrbrooks
Addition

[mrbrooks]

Hi all, it looks like the first shot is fired, read here > [ATTACH]39276[/ATTACH]

 

OK, so I have a few questions, first, any thoughts on post #149 as most of what I have to say is actually in there...

 

Next, I notice that about £500 has been added to the outstanding amount, should I refute this? There is no clear and visible breakdown of what this additional cost is made up of? Thoughts on this please...

 

Any guidance and support is most appreciated and required right now as I've got that initial, oh my god what have I done, I know it will pass but I just need to start formulating a plan of defence and and counter-attack, just dunno what I'm supposed to do now...

 

thanks all

 

mrbrooks