Cap1 & CCA return

[JonCris]

U takes your pick

[ladybird17]

not the judiciary then....

 

Common Law - Consumer Credit

 

In recent decision of the Court of Appeal, Clarke LJ said: “…the Consumer Credit Act 1974 … has recently provided so much work for the courts …this case demonstrates the unsatisfactory state of the law at present. Simplification of a part of the law which is intended to protect consumers is surely long overdue so as to make it comprehensible to layman and lawyer alike. At present it is certainly not comprehensible to the former and is scarcely comprehensible to the latter.” McGinn v Grangewood Securities Ltd. [2002] CA Civ 522

[joneshousehold]

Clarke LJ would be better commenting that the workload of the courts demonstrates the appalling behaviour and lack of respect for the law by the credit industry.

 

Water down the CCA indeed, just because a consumer revolution has caused extra work! Whatever next. A spell in the stocks for daring to claim charges/challenge the enforceability of the contracts!

[Professor Fate]

Just what you read in the thread. But I'd have thought, no T&Cs, no enforceable agreement. But Trading Standards don't seem to agree, and a mod is saying pretty much the same thing... he/she thinks it would stand as an enforceable agreement too. I had hoped someone might pop in there and get involved, as all the forum "experts" seem to visit this thread.

 

If you have an agreement which you sign and within that agreement it refers to *ANYTHING* then *ANYTHING* must be supplied to make it properly executed. It doesnt have to be all there at the time, on the agreement if will have some T&C and then the rest can be sent to you within 7 days after you have signed the agreement.

 

If you dont have that, then its improperly executed. Or even could be taken that its totally unexecuted depending on the information omitted at the time.

[Professor Fate]

I just remembered something, we were looking for a way to find out who would handle a prosecution against a bank or CC Co for a criminal default? Well prosecutions are handled by the CPS so it would make sense to collect the information and submit it to them and see if a prosecution is possible under the CCA or other Act?

 

The Crown Prosecution Service has headquarters in London and York and operates under a structure of 42 Areas in England and Wales

 

Local office, give the a call and go in and explain and see what the story is.

[Vulture_Bank]

As we have seen on this site many times TS are not the best people to determine what is or what isn't anything, least of all what forms part of an executed agreement.

 

It's clear from many other statements by TS that they have little understanding of the CCA 1974

 

Also I disagree with the mod in that as the agreement relies on them the TC's do form part of the executed agreement

 

 

 

Re: Consumer Credit Act Agreements

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vulture_Bank

 

the above is the first terms and conditions that was sent to me when i joined with this credit card issuer . please note that they also imply that the terms and conditions are also a "copy of your agreement for you to keep . It includes a notice about your cancellation rights which you should read "

 

it appears to my goodself that right at the beginning when i had the pleasure of joining they sent me this instead of the executed agreement -

 

do you not agree so i honestly think the contract is inenforceable.

 

========================= ============

 

this does seem rather important the terms and conditions also being formally stated as the agreement ( ADMITTING no executed agreement was send when one joined)

 

 

 

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

now look at the above terms and conditions leaflet

 

 

indeed the issuer is declaring Formally that the terms and conditions are in their opinion the "executed agreement "

[Professor Fate]

Where is the agreement you signed?

[Guest Battleaxe]

I just remembered something, we were looking for a way to find out who would handle a prosecution against a bank or CC Co for a criminal default? Well prosecutions are handled by the CPS so it would make sense to collect the information and submit it to them and see if a prosecution is possible under the CCA or other Act?

 

The Crown Prosecution Service has headquarters in London and York and operates under a structure of 42 Areas in England and Wales

 

Local office, give the a call and go in and explain and see what the story is.

 

 

I have already been in touch with the CPS, they do not take on cases from the public. The case has to be brought to them via the police and several of us have already been that track without success.

 

next suggestion?

[Professor Fate]

Everyone from CAG chip in, hire a lawyer and try a private prosecution.

[tamadus]

Would anybody like to comment in this thread. Looks like someone is about to be stitched up...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/74733-credit-agreement-application.html

 

Ok I saved the picture and then used windows fax and picture viewer to zoom in as close as possible.

 

All the terms relating to interest, credit limit cancellation rights etc are in that document. The only thing I dont like is the rubber stamp. No other document is mentioned, so no additional T&C are required, they also would not be valid if they do exist as the agreement doesnt mention them.

 

IMHO as long as the signature is genuine and not part of the rubber stamp a court would enforce it as properly executed.

[Seahorse]

Ah. So RBS have managed to squeeze into a tiny box the same information that others only manage to fit onto the back of an agreement, or a separate leaflet, and in tiny writing that makes you go blind at that.

 

RBS leads the way in saving the rainforests.

[joneshousehold]

I have posted on the Credit AGREEMENT -or- APPLICATION? thread as follows if anyone would like to get the ball rolling

I have struggled to read all the RBS application form but I thought it referred to the Conditions of Use overleaf. The OP say they had not received a copy of the T&C's and as this represents an other document referred to in this document, then I would say S78 has not been complied with.

 

Also the wording for the signature box must be inside the box but this is shown outside the box.

 

I also cannot see the statement of protections and remedies, main rights should be in the signature document as well as the loss or misuse of credit token box.

 

I do note this was signed in 1997, were the regulations different at that time perhaps?

 

I also have concerns about the phrase 'I apply for an RBS Advantage Card...' but I can't read them all. I know Tamadus thinks this complies with the regulations so allowing the application to double up as an agreement but I am not so sure as the creditor still has the power to refuse the application and this suggests to me Section 59 is brought into play.

 

I think this latter point needs a lot of debate although in the CCAA thread it has often been chewed over without any real progress. If we could get to the bottom of it in this thread, it would be a very useful exercise. We know the two views are that on the one hand an application can be an agreement if it embodies all the requirements of the CCA and on the other the argument against it is that Section 59 seems to preclude one document acting as both.

 

What we need now is some constructive input about those two arguments to see how much water each holds. Any takers?

[ladybird17]

Phew Joneshousehold, fear that too much Pinot this lunchtime/afternoon renders me useless to be a taker at present. Will re-visit after cup of tea and choc. digestive!

[joneshousehold]

Ladybird, I am impressed that you can recognise the effect of too much Pinot. Most of us think we are superhuman after a glass or two! No worries, we have plenty of time but thanks for the offer to revisit.

 

I have a horrible feeling we won't be able to resolve this so someone will end up having to challenge it in court with less than certainty. This court process is nerve wracking enough without uncertainty as well! Still Dave did it with the charges issue so I suppose we can too.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Just a quicky if anyone help..Doea anyone have an email address for the head honcho at Trent House, the HQ of Capital oNe, yep the barstweards have been ringing all weekend and the last call was at 6.15 this evening, against the guidleines regariding calls on Sundays, so i want the leader of the Pack to know what his acolytes in India are up to. 15 calls this weekend after a couple of months respite.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Everyone from CAG chip in, hire a lawyer and try a private prosecution.

169 Offences by bodies corporate

 

Where at any time a body corporate commits an offence under this Act with the consent or connivance of, or because of neglect by, any individual, the individual commits the like offence if at that time—

 

(a) he is a director, manager, secretary or similar officer of the body corporate, or

 

 

(b) he is purporting to act as such an officer, or

 

 

© the body corporate is managed by its members, of whom he is one.

 

 

 

 

SO WITH OUR

 

"offences " committed after 12 + 30 days

 

 

is it possible to take out a

PRIVATE PROSECUTION AGAINST A NAMED INDIVIDUAL

 

----- OF SAY MBUSA --- say the one we wrote to

 

 

would get a lot of publicity ???

 

 

we all know BILL STICKERS WAS "PROSECUTED"

 

could we do the same to ROBERT UDDY !!!

 

 

THINK I SAID this the other day remember the staff also

committ an offence

[joneshousehold]

15! They must have turned their attention to you because our calls have stopped for the moment but then we had a letter from Robert Udy last week so presumably he/it put a temporary stop until we got his/it's reply.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Just a quicky if anyone help..Doea anyone have an email address for the head honcho at Trent House, the HQ of Capital oNe, yep the barstweards have been ringing all weekend and the last call was at 6.15 this evening, against the guidleines regariding calls on Sundays, so i want the leader of the Pack to know what his acolytes in India are up to. 15 calls this weekend after a couple of months respite.

 

 

 

Capital One - Press Information - Press Releases=

 

 

try

 

 

[email protected] & duplicate the email to

 

[email protected] then duplicate the email to

[email protected] etc

 

it might work

 

wel this lot exist ..... at capitalonebank.com

 

 

Debt Capital Markets (DCM)

Spencer Gagnet

504-533-5717

[email protected]

Fixed Income Corporate Finance

Peter J. Daniel

972-364-6576

[email protected]

Public Finance

Wanda Clark

972-855-3696

[email protected]

Hedge Strategy

Stephanie F. Tyner

985-674-8191

[email protected]

Loan Syndications

Laura K. Watts

504-533-7859

[email protected]

 

so try robert.uddy g

[Guest Battleaxe]

Sadly these are the American email addresses.

 

They seem to have kept the english email addresses well hidden

[Guest Battleaxe]

Notice.. Robert Udy is the correct spelling

[Guest Battleaxe]

Just a quick heads up for any absence. MOTH is being investigated for lung cancer (asbestos) courtesy of the Royal Navy all those years ago. he has a CT scan in the morning. it came to a head last Wednesday night with a massive bleed from his lungs, he was being treated for COPd, bu the new xrays tell a different story. So I guess my life is now going to involve the Veteran's Agency as anothe fight for the best treatment. We have already been down that path with Prostate Cancer, and before anyone jumps up and down, the cancer never escaped from the prostate capsule, so this is a completely different and not metastises. MOTHS PSA count proves this from 19.7 last February to 0.63 last week.

 

We really don't need the crap from Capital One at the moment.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Well that one didn't work

 

 

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

 

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its

recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

 

[email protected]

retry timeout exceeded

 

------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------

 

Return-path:

Received: from adsl-2-solo-173-195.claranet.co.uk ([80.168.173.195] helo=Dragonlady)

by relay1.mail.uk.clara.net with smtp (Exim 4.62)

(envelope-from )

id 1HT1fq-0006s1-ND

for [email protected]; Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:08:16 +0000

Message-ID:

From: "Phillipa"

To:

Subject: Harassing Phone calls for payment

Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:07:52 -0000

MIME-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;

boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0324_01C76999.1BD00980"

X-Priority: 3

X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1807

X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106

 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

 

------=_NextPart_000_0324_01C76999.1BD00980

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0325_01C76999.1BD00980"

 

 

------=_NextPart_001_0325_01C76999.1BD00980

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

As you are already in breach of the Section 85 on the two accounts the =

restarting of harassing telephone calls this weekend 17/18 March 2007, =

will only add the penalties and compensation we will be applying for.

 

Please take note, any further phone calls regarding these accounts will =

be brought to the Courts attention.

 

The OFT and FSA have already been notified about the resumption of these =

practices.

[Guest The Terminator]

THINK I SAID this the other day remember the staff also

committ an offence

 

By the way fC copy comes up 107 times in the CCA

[Guest The Terminator]

Everyone from CAG chip in, hire a lawyer and try a private prosecution.

 

Necular War

[Guest The Terminator]

Ok I saved the picture and then used windows fax and picture viewer to zoom in as close as possible.

 

All the terms relating to interest, credit limit cancellation rights etc are in that document. The only thing I dont like is the rubber stamp. No other document is mentioned, so no additional T&C are required, they also would not be valid if they do exist as the agreement doesnt mention them.

 

IMHO as long as the signature is genuine and not part of the rubber stamp a court would enforce it as properly executed.

 

Thanks Tam.At least one other person saw the discepencey