Nervous!

[Miss T]

My apologies, i thought it was had shareholders.

[Miss T]

My apologies, i thought it was had shareholders.

[penny less]

:?

Nervous Nelly here! I am now on day 7 since letter was posted, nothing to date, though post does not arrive til this afternoon at home.

I am now panicking as I have a horrible feeling I sent the wrong letter!?

 

I used the letter from the Library section, but I can't find it now, and the letters in there now don't appear to be the same one. :?

 

This is the letter sent on Feb 20 2006;

 

The Chief Executive

Legal Department

Halifax Plc

Trinity Road

Halifax

West Yorkshire

HX1 2RG

 

20 February 2006

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Sir,

 

SORT CODE **-**-** ACCOUNT NUMBER: ********

 

I have held the above mentioned current account with your bank for the past 6 years. During this time I have incurred charges for exceeding my overdraft limit due to cheques being cleared at unfortunate times, unauthorised overdraft fees, direct debits and standing orders being dishonoured (and in some cases honoured) due to insufficient funds.

 

It is my opinion, and that of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT), that these charges are punitive in nature, not a genuine pre-estimate of cost and not intended to reimburse your losses for a breach of contract occurring. Further to the 1999 Consumer Credit Regulations quoted by the OFT, there are numerous cases in law that prove that punitive charges in contracts are unenforceable in English law.

 

Eg;

Murray v Leasureplay (2004)

Dunlop Tyre Company v New Garage and Motor Co. (1915)

Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd. (1962)

 

Further to these cases, I also believe these charges to be a direct breach of the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977, which require that contract terms be reasonable. I do not believe these charges are reasonable as outlined in the aforementioned act.

 

With this in mind, I respectfully request that you return to me ALL charges made on this account in the last 6 years within 7 days of receipt of this letter by way of personal cheque. If you choose not to do so, I will start proceedings for recovery in the County Courts, as I believe that legally I am entitled to this money back. By doing so, you will be eligible for my court costs and for an extra 8% APR as allowed by the County Courts Act (1984). This money would be used in some way to clear my overdraft on this account.

 

Further to this, if you decide NOT to accept my offer of settlement of this issue, I would like to make a formal request under the Data Protection Act for a complete and exhaustive list of all charges made on this account over the last 6 years. As you are no doubt aware, you are afforded 40 days to comply with this request or you must request an extension from the Information Commissioner. If you are of any doubt that this information is covered by the act, may I respectfully draw your attention to the case of Durant v FSA 2003 where the judge ruled that bank statement information is indeed personal information and is thus covered. In any event, this information is requested with a view to prospective legal action on my part and therefore would be covered under the same Act.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Penny Less.

 

Have I sent the wrong one? Is my next step to assume they're sending the statements? Do I now ask for the statements? Or do I go straight for the jugular?

 

Help! :?

 

Penny Less

[BankFodder]

We have changed the letters as the one which you sent was too ambigous and left you know knowing - rather the proiton which you are in now.

Send them a letter regreting their failure to repsond and point out that you are now waiting the reulst of your DPA request which was sent on XXXDATEXXX - xx days ago and that they now have XX days to respond.

[penny less]

See, I knew it'd be me that would c*ck up the system! Ok, so I will request the statements, showing the charges, as per the DPA request, and wait the remaining 33 days then? I shall state the date by which I expect the statements, that takes me to , hmmmmm, 1st April!! Oh, heck, hope I'm not the April fool!

 

Thanks for replying.

Penny Less

[penny less]

Me again. I haven't sent any money for the statements, is there a charge for asking them to provide them?

How much is the charge?

Should I send a cheque, or wait for them to request the money?

Sorry for all the questions!

Penny Less

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry to say that these questions are dealt with quite often on the forum.

Please read around including, for your particular questions the Information Commissioner links and DAP links in the Library and then come back here.

[penny less]

Update;

 

I sent 2nd letter yesterday, requesting statements and reminding them they now only had 33 days to comply. This morning I apparently had a phone call at home from Halifax! ( I am at work, so I called them, otherwise they will call back tonight and I HATE being badgered at home!) Anyway got through to a very pleasant lady, sounded like an Aussie, who told me that a letter had been sent on 24 Feb, I have not recieved this letter. After she tried to pass me on to another department, but was unable to, she couldn't see on my file why anyone had telephoned me! :? However she was able to eventually tell me the gist of the letter, you guessed it, no refund!! So I told her that I will see if the letter is home tonight, then I will telephone the DP helpline for further info. Bless her she was extremely pleasant, without being patronising or snotty, but she told me it's funny, but I'm not the first person she's spoken to who's requested their statements!!

Penny Less

[penny less]

Update;

I received the letter from 24 Feb, "further to your recent enquiry, regret to advise, blah, blah, blah"

 

I felt I ought to reply, so I have drafted the following;

 

"Thank you for your letter dated 24 February 2006, received 2 March 2006.

 

I was disappointed by the decision not to refund my charges applied to my account. May I respectfully point out that I have requested a list of the transactions and charges on my account for the past 6 years, which I have not yet received. Alternatively statements for that period would be acceptable.

 

This request was first asked for on February 20 2006. Under the Data Protection act 1998 I am entitled to the information, and you have 40 days to comply. You now have 28 days left in which to supply the information requested as the initial request was sent on Feb 20 2006.

 

I look forward to your prompt reply."

 

I will send to S Sneddon, the person who sent the letter on 24 Feb, copies to local branch AND CE, as before.

 

Is this ok? I am assuming they will send the info requested, then I can work out the specific figure, taken from the list of charges.

 

When they refuse I will then sent "letter before action".

Penny Less

[Guest Alison82]

have you sent them the payment of £10 yet?

[penny less]

Hi Alison,

No I haven't paid any money for the information requested, but they haven't asked for any. They not even acknowledged my reqeust for the info come to think of it!

Penny Less

[Guest Alison82]

They are probably stalling and they may turn around and say towards the end of the 40 days that they did not receive your payment so they could not carry through the dpa request, this may mean you starting all over again.

 

I think you should send them the £10 fee with another letter then you can count down the days (they may even refund it if your lucky-some do waive the fee).

 

Good Luck

[penny less]

Thanks Alison, I shall put a cheque in the envelope with the letter, I did sent the original letter by recorded post, so they can't asy that they didn't have enough notice, and if they require payment they should have requested it. Will write the cheque now!

Thanks again

Penny Less

[penny less]

Update;

Recieved letter dated March 2, telling me;

"I refer to the above numbered account and recent correspondence regarding the charges incurred on your account.

I advise you to refer to your monthly statements for the information, which you require. If a copy of any statements is needed, there will be a fee of £5.

This was in response to my DPA letter! From S McVean Customer services.

 

Letter recieved 9 March,

Basically, the usual "we incur costs", "we believe it's fair", "outline our charging policy", etc, etc, etc.

Then;

"You have requested a copy of duplicate statements for the past 6 years. There is a charge of £5 for duplicate statements however, in the interest of customer service, I have enclosed the statements for you for no fee.

 

On this occasion I will arrange to refund £60 worth of charges to your account, as well as waive a £28 charge due to be debited at the end of this month. This is done as a gesture of goodwill on the understanding that any further charges you incur will stand.

 

Turning to your request for a list of all the members of staff that have manually intervened on your account. Unfortunately, an investigation of this kind would involve a disproportionate effort and HBoS plc is not legally obliged to supply this information."

 

This is signed, actually signed as opposed to a printed signature, by D Robertshaw, customer relations manager, core business, customer relations. How come it only "costs" £5 to duplicate 6 years worth of statements, which look to me like photocopies, yet they charge £30 for an automated response for paying a DD when there's not enough dosh in the account? :?

 

So I have been through all the duplicate statements, and highlighted all charges, comes to about £800! However I have noticed one or two odd things. Three times my account has been "Account Renewed", and the dates run consecutively. However in Aug 2000 it says Account Renewed, but then there is a gap until Nov 2002 when the account is "opened by transfer".

 

Now I know for a fact that the account has never been closed, suspended or renewed by me, at any time. So what does this mean? Luckily I have statements at home covering some of this period, so I can double check those. Does this seem a bit dodgy to you?

Penny Less

[BankFodder]

Seems odd. By the way, they are offering you the refunds on the basis that you give up all rights to claim anything else. Don't sign anything. Don't agree.

if they put the money in your account that is up to them

[colour-me-happy]

Hi Penny Less

 

I get the "account renewed" quite often on my online statement... I think it just means they have a purge of the system, I usually have 3-4 pages to view but when they "renew" it is just the last couple of transactions.

 

Hope that helps!

[penny less]

I have today drafted a letter to send to CS, as an interim before putting a claim in! Does this sound ok? Want to be sure that they know I am not accepting the conditions imposed, and that I know they should supply me with info on me, held by them under DPA.

 

 

"Thank you for your reply to my letters, and for the supply of the statements for my account over the last 6 years, I appreciate the goodwill gesture of not charging me for them.

 

I shall go through the statements as soon as possible to assess the charges. Thank you for the offer to refund £60 worth of charges, and to waive the £28 fee due at the end of this month. I will be happy to accept the refund etc, however I cannot accept the conditions you impose. I will be claiming for all and any charges on this account, as they are not enforceable in English law.

 

I realise that HBoS Plc are keen to resolve my concerns. Can you please clarify what, if any, manual interventions have taken place? Are you saying that HBoS has undertaken manual interventions on my account, or not? I understand that under the Data Protection Act the HBoS is legally obliged to provide such information held regarding my details."

 

Not sure whether to include a bit about the 2 year gap from Aug 2000 to Nov 02, on the statements suplied, as I have some statements from that period?

Penny Less

[BankFodder]

Yes do mention the gap. You want everything and they have to give it to you.

[mas101]

So I have been through all the duplicate statements, and highlighted all charges, comes to about £800! However I have noticed one or two odd things. Three times my account has been "Account Renewed", and the dates run consecutively. However in Aug 2000 it says Account Renewed, but then there is a gap until Nov 2002 when the account is "opened by transfer".

 

Now I know for a fact that the account has never been closed, suspended or renewed by me, at any time. So what does this mean? Luckily I have statements at home covering some of this period, so I can double check those. Does this seem a bit dodgy to you?

 

I am not sure what "account renewed" means but I have seen this every year on my statements. Also each year when they do this, internet banking history disappears and you have to refer to online statements. I think it must be some kind of account renewal process that they implement.

[penny less]

Hi Mas101,

I am more concerned about this particular incident, the gap is from Aug 2000 to Nov 2002!! And I have statements sitting right in front of me covering that period! What are HBoS up to?

I have most of my statements over the last 6 years, I am missing about 24 though. I will have to trawl through my, somewhat haphazard, filing system to locate them. Or cross reference them with those they've sent me, what fun!

 

Bankfodder, as an interim letter it's ok? Don't want to give them ammo against me in court!

Penny Less

[BankFodder]

don't understand what you mean ny ammo, here

[mas101]

Hi PennyLess

 

Looking back at your thread, the clock is still ticking on your DPA request. It seems that they are just trying to cloud the issue with their usual haphazard letter of response.

 

Did you use the standard DPA letter in the library? If so, just send them a reply to their letter thanking them, but pointing out that you have submitted a formal DPA request, which affords them 40 days in which to respond. Tell them the date on which their 40 days is up. That should give you your missing 2 years?

 

I think the account renewal, as mentioned earlier in this thread is nothing more than a purge of their systems and is a red-herring.

[penny less]

Bankfodder, I simply mean will the letter cause me any problems should my case go to court? IE; I have said I will accept the refunds, but not under the conditions imposed, would this be acceptable? I just don't want to risk getting so far only to find I've cocked it up by not wording my letter carefully enough. I will ask him to clarify why there is a gap of 2 years though.

 

Mas101, yeah, the account renewed thing isn't a worry, apart from the 2 years gap! :? I shall remind them that they have til April 1st to fully comply with DPA request, though I have most of the original statements for that period.

Penny Less

[mas101]

Mas101, yeah, the account renewed thing isn't a worry, apart from the 2 years gap! :? I shall remind them that they have til April 1st to fully comply with DPA request, though I have most of the original statements for that period.

Penny Less

 

Just one other point....

 

Have you paid them their £10 for the DPA request? If you have, its not a problem, if you havent, I would include it but make sure they are aware that they still only have until 1st April to comply. Last thing you need is to get to the date and them to turn round and say they havent started due to not receiving payment!!!

[richardc]

I believe that 40 days starts when they receive the money but will stand corrected.