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    • Please bear with me here i shall try and make this short but with all the detail, but i need help ASAP as there is limited time allowed for this process. I have been with my company 4 years and have advanced through the technical ranks to my current position,  we have an annual report which goes from 0-4 and for three years i have never scored lower than a 3. I was promoted to the role i am in now as an area quality assurance lead and the location was for the NE ( i live in the NW) eventually a similar role became available for another role in the NW. I asked my line manager if he minded me applying for it and he had no issues, i applied sat the multi stage interview and was given the role. My role is now classed as "at risk" of redundancy as we are moving from 4 regions to two which means they are also moving from 4 roles to two roles in my position. Two people are considered safe and myself and another at risk, my question is what is the criteria to separate safe from at risk . In the documentation received from my company it is below, i have zero issues and i know cv against cv mine wins, i was even selected by the company as a company mentor because of my experience in engineering and leadership. This is a closed group of maybe ten people and i am the only non senior executive included.    ·         Performance and Behaviour : I have zero behaviour issues, no issues with performance from my current line manager.  ·         Performance Improvement/ Disciplinary Records   : Zero disciplinary's and no performance issues, in fact my line manager on record has said I'm forthcoming ·         End Of Year Rating : Issues explained below Now my line manager was leaving the company and he did tell me "there was some politics involved with you getting that role, the city build manager and head of area build had promised it to their lead engineer (something they had no right to promise as it has to go though the process ) anyway from day 1 it became very clear that i would not be accepted for this reason within their community although i did just try to help them achieve quality and specification as that was my role. After a few weeks it became very apparent as to why the role had been promised to their man, i found issues where properties had been signed off as ready to accept subscribers when they were not ready (for bonus and stat reasons) and several quality issues i discovered which we could remedy and improve our productivity (unfortunately this would highlight that these issues had been there and not dealt with) My new head of area build (part of this trilogy of him, city build manager and lead engineer)  clearly did not want me there (for the reasons stated) but paid lip service, i had highlighted that i needed to walk off some structured with our canter of excellence counterparts ( as this was part of my role to link in with them for national issues) and he responded by saying i am not to walk them off, and that we have sufficient engineers to do that task (by saying this he could make sure that the engineers would take them round to structures that are A not the ones i have highlighted, and B would have very minor issues) This battle went back and forth over the months where i tried my best to build up the relationship with  them, my attitude was ok you have made some mistakes here, but we are all a team and even though you have hidden issues i can help you remedy them and hopefully we can do so and keep them off the radar,  but they just never did, So moving forward to October last year (2023) this is getting near to annual review time, now i had helped the company out massively by working a substantial amount of weekends and nights to fix issues, and i said i would take most of the time as TOIL ( as agreed with by my previous head of area build) this was 30 days. My current head of area build said i needed to put my leave in as it had been flagged as having a large amount. When i did input the leave (it would result in me taking all of December off) he was unhappy with me and was extremely curt in his responses as he could find nothing on the system for my TOIL , i explained the situation, my line manager would ask if i could work the hours, i would, and when i wanted leave he would authorise (we had an good working relationship, he was an excellent manager) he ended up going to HR to ask their advice and a teams call was set up with myself, head of area build and HR, it was confirmed by HR that it was a company error, when you want to input TOIL there should be a dropdown option in the leave menu and one of the options would be TOIL, this had not been setup on mine. So the company authorised the leave explaining that this should have been done and hadn't, i did say that this is the way it had always been and pretty much everyone on my team then operated this way, TOIL had never been discussed and none of had this option available. So i entered my leave from 4th December - 2nd January,  My line manager was an outside contractor and was leaving the company on the 15th December. On my return i found that we had a new head of area build, it would be a temporary position as they were not going to fill the position permanently and he would be covering his role (Scotland) and this role (NW). I contacted him to say that i had not received my end of year report yet and when would this happen as i had not sat with my line manager tor mine. A little over a week later my HoAB and i had a teams call, it was a introduction meeting and end of year report, he said that he had received feedback from the outgoing manager and he had given me a 2 (i have as explained before never scored lower than a 3) he asked hoe long i had been in the current role (just over a year) as this grade can mean you are new to the role and need a little supervision, haven't built up relationships with stakeholders etc. So he explained what my grade and bonus would be and if i had any feedback, i explained that this was unfair, i had proof that i had not met my targets (i say targets as there were never really any set, but going from emails and conversation we have had, and the job description) i had even created Powerpoint presentations which were very complex into how our network works from beginning to end  as there was distinct lack of knowledge here and i am a lead trainer / assessor (this btw he was extremely impressed with) He did say he had spoken to people in the centre of excellence which o believe was the head of operations, and he did look confused as to the disparity in feedback from them and the original manager that wrote my report. I contacted HR to raising my concerns that i had not sat with my line manager to go through my report,  had i had the chance to do so, i could have rebutted anything said as i had proof of my achievements even though he had set no defined targets, i could prove that i had been extremely active in identifying and remedying issues, HR did come back to me and these are their comments  1) "Your rating was submitted by your manager at the time xxx xxxxxx and he should have carried out an EOY review with you. The rating would not have been provided in this review but feedback should have been shared" [this never happened] 2)  Initial ratings where then discussed and reviewed during a calibration process (for your team) this will have included HOABs and RDs. During this session ratings can be challenged and changed. I can confirm that your rating was not changed as a result of this session and it remained at the rating that xxx submitted. 3) xxx did provide thorough feedback to xxx xxx in a handover so if not already done so it may be worth speaking with him to understand that feedback further.   4) In terms of reputation and the concern you share – ratings are not made public and are private to each individual. 5) And this first line obviously is incorrect " As far as i can see this would be the only separator they could have measured me on to separate safe from not safe, and if so the company did not follow its own procedure. My current line manager said " an error had occurred as you had not received the option to  sir with your manager for your review, and the company needs to make sure this error does not happen again) Well then they are admitting there was an issue and it needs remedying not sweeping under the carpet. All of this is documented. To remind the rating of a 2 is not a concerning grade. Please see descriptor below Generally, needs little supervision but does on occasion require direction/supervision. Does not always anticipate changes to the work environment and could adapt more quickly. May be seen as a strong performer in certain situations or by some audiences but may not perform at that level in all situations. May need some development or guidance to carry out some elements of role. May not consistently demonstrate the right behaviours. May have been on Performance Improvement during the year but has since shown strong improvement        
    • Also, what is the value of the dress and have you refunded the purchaser?
    • Simon Case was at the Covid inquiry yesterday. Finally. ‘Eat out to help out’ launched without telling official in charge, Covid inquiry hears | Covid inquiry | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Simon Case, who was responsible for Covid policy at time, calls Boris Johnson’s Downing Street the ‘worst governing ever seen’  
    • I think for the moment you will have to wait for the return of the dress to you And then take some decent photographs which will show the damage very clearly. You will have to provide these to parcel to go but also you will need them as evidence for the court if that's the way this matter goes . Let us know when you get the dress and you have the photographs. It would be helpful to see the photographs here. In the meantime I suggest that you start reading as many of the stories on the subforum as you can manage in 2 or 3 days and that means quite a lot. In particular read the pinned posts at the top of the subforum which will explain the principles involved which you will probably have to use if you bring the matter to court. When you have done the reading, when you have received the dress and when you have the photographs then come back here and we can go to the next step      
    • Solid blocks of text are very difficult for people to follow and especially when they are using small screens such as telephones. This discourages people from giving you the kind of help that you need. Please will you make sure that your posts are properly spaced and punctuated in future.  I have done this one for you on this occasion
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Apex Credit Management creating more debt


Zaphyre
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Hello there,

 

I wonder if I could ask get some advice please?

 

I took out a consolidation loan in 2005 with Natwest bank of £13k.

 

In 2006 I split with my partner and became homeless, lost my job and was unable to keep up my repayments.

 

The debt spiralled to over £17k by the time it was passed on to debt collectors. This was a bad time for me.

 

BCW soon contacted me saying they had bought the debt and some time later Apex credit management contacted me saying they now own it.

 

As I was in receipt of benefits I started paying them £5 per month and have been doing so every month without fail ever since.

 

I am now a single mother so still on benefits so havent been able to pay anymore than that per month.

 

In May of this year Apex started calling me and sending me letters saying my account was in default and if I did not pay they would take action against me, possibly take me to court.

 

I couldn't understand it, but after speaking to them they now seem to think that I have two debts with them.

 

One for £16k which is the original debt and one for nearly £18k.

 

I have no idea where this second debt has come from.

 

They said I took it out in May 2010 with Natwest Bank.

I have pointed out that it is highly unlikely that Natwest would give me another loan of that amount after not paying my first one and while I am on benefits.

 

I spoke to one helpful guy who said it looks like a mistake and he was referring it back to Royal Bank of Scotland?

 

since then I get called atleast twice a week and recieve letters to say my account is in default.

 

Every person I speak to seems to have no knowledge of any correspondence I have had with them before

and every time they tell me I need to pay the amount in full and ask if I have a debit card I can pay with.

 

When I tell them I do not owe this money, they just created this new debt, they tell me to prove it.

 

I have asked them to prove I owe this debt by providing signed copies of the original contract.

They have told me that as the debt orginated back to 2005 they no longer have the signed copy.

This makes no sense as they said the second debt was taken out in 2010, so now they are saying I have to write to them and pay £1 so they can investigate.

I am assuming they are talking about a CCA?

 

I am so confused and sick of all the letters and phonecalls I am getting from these people!

Do Apex own the debt or are they just working on behalf of Royal Bank of Scotland?

 

I hope I have made sense

 

Thanks in advance :)

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sadly you are falling for the biggest spoof in the book.

they got you to cough on a debt and became a cash cow

they thought they'd try their luck and milk you for more

 

STOP USING THE PHONE TO DCA's

 

they have no legal powers to demand ANYTHING off you

and even less power to do anything about it!

 

check your cra file

if these debts do not show....stop all payments

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thankyou for your reply at this hour! :)

 

I thought this might be the case, I couldnt see that it was true. When they call in future I will tell them I will deal with them in writing only. I have done this before, but I found they still called anyway and in the letters they send they dont explain what the matter is about, just threaten me with legal action for not paying.

 

I will check my credit reference then.

 

Thanks :)

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okn great

just remember

they have no legal powers at all

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hiya!

 

I have had a response from Natwest to my CCA request. The letter says...

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to loacte it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under Section 77(4) of the consumer credit act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such actions as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

 

What actions are legally permitted out of interest?

 

So what now? Do I just carry on paying money to Apex? or do I stop paying or what do I do? Please help me somebody, thankyou :)

 

I dont think it would be wise to stop paying as surely if I did they would miraculously find the agreement?

 

Thanks

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Hiya!

 

I have had a response from Natwest to my CCA request. The letter says...

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to loacte it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under Section 77(4) of the consumer credit act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligations under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such actions as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

 

What actions are legally permitted out of interest?

 

So what now? Do I just carry on paying money to Apex? or do I stop paying or what do I do? Please help me somebody, thankyou :)

 

I dont think it would be wise to stop paying as surely if I did they would miraculously find the agreement?

 

Thanks

 

If you stop payments they'll trash your credit file but, if it's already trashed why continue to pay?.....they can't enforce whilst in default.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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iwell they wont have one will they

 

its over 6yrs and has been distroyed!!

 

 

what was the outcome of your cra file check?

this is the important bit here

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for your help guys!

 

I havent checked my credit file yet as I had my free trial 6 years ago! and now they want £15 per month, soooo I think you can write to them for a one off report for £2? I will do it that way and I am going to write to them with the copy of the letter from the bank and ask them to remove the default from my credit file and see what happens. I am also going to write to Apex with a copy of the letter and say I have no recollection of the debt.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

I need a little advice please

 

To cut a long story short I have been paying a debt collection agency since 2006. Last year, out of the blue they came up with another debt that I knew nothing about and asked me to get a CCA from the original lender. I did the CCA to Natwest and they wrote back to me about a loan from 2005 (which was the original loan I was paying the DCA for, they seemed to duplicate it for some reason), but said that they could not locate the credit agreement so the loan was unenforceable, but I still had to pay it off.

 

I have checked my credit file and it is showing on there.

 

Is there anyway I can get this debt cleared from my credit file if it is unenforceable?

 

Thanks

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un-en wont make it go away

just means court cannot be used

 

now the one you are paying, does that show on your CRA file.

 

something smells here.

 

tell us some more about it.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thankyou, I will tell you the whole story! I did post about it before, but cant find the post, sorry I am new here.

 

In 2005, I took out a consolidation loan with Natwest for me and my partner. I made the expensive mistake of putting it all in my name because he had bad credit rating and when we split up it all became mine! I lost my job and couldn't pay, so it went into default. It got sold to BCW first of all and I was paying them £5 per month. Then it got sold onto Apex Credit Management who I have been paying £5 per month to ever since 2007. Last year Apex started chasing me for another loan I knew nothing about. I sent a CCA to Natwest and it turned out that they also knew nothing about the second loan so thats all good, but the original loan I have been paying £5 per month for is unenforceable as they are unable to locate my credit agreement.

 

I have checked my credit file and the loan is there and is showing as Default.

 

I am just wondering what to do now really?

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the debt that does not show does not need paying

 

as for the one you are paying, does that show?

an do they have a cca?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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when did you start paying the £5PCM and whos name is against the debt on the cra

and is the sum outstanding going down

 

i'm minded to say stop paying

no cca = no pay!

 

there is something fishy going on here & i've not spotted it yet.

 

it might be time to SAR natwest

 

i have a sneaky suspision they wrote the debt off years ago

and apex or whomever are spoofing you into paying.

 

something smells

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Its all confusing me so much!! I am losing sleep over this lol

 

Lets see I started paying £5 per month in March 2007 (or around then) and its my name against the debt. The sum is going down by £5 each month yes but it still defaults. It has a black square with a D in it to make me feel extra ashamed!!

 

I got the letter from Natwest and it says:

 

Thankyou for your recent correspondence dated 22 October 2011.

 

We regret to advise you that the Loan Agreement form has been misfiled and, despite searching our records, we have been unable to locate it. Our record of the setting up of the loan has insufficient detail to enable us to recreate the agreement with the required degree of certainty that is required.

 

We appreciate that, under section 77(4) of the Consumer Credit Act, we will be unable to take steps to enforce repayment of the loan should you decide not to meet your obligation under the loan. However, we believe that you should continue to make repayments as the agreement remains valid. You should note that your continuing default will be reported to the Credit Reference Agencies as Section 77(4) only prevents us from pursuing recovery of the debt through the courts.

 

Please note that if we do not receive an acceptable repayment offer, we may take such action as are legally permitted to recover the outstanding debt.

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they are basically saying, we cant force you to pay

there are no LEGAL routes left

just dca's

 

me thinks they dont know nor are getting or have ever gotten ANY payments

from hillies..

 

sadly what i thought

 

you've been cash cowed

 

stop paying now.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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A default is reported to the CRA each month. I know defaults stay on there for 6 years. So if the reporting wills top in March 2013, will the last default reported stay on for another 6 years? or will it all come off of my file? Does that make sense?

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how can ANYONE mark your file when to all LEGAL purposes

the debt does not exist.

 

you need to phone or write to natwest and

specifically & ONLY ask the question

when was my last payment please

 

i'd be minded to write

then when they say XX date [more than 6yrs ago]

 

you copy that letter to the CRA

and ask why is this debt still showing.

 

i know you've paid hilies

and they dont need a cca to mark your cra

but

if it was written off or terminated

they should not be processing your data at all.

 

might get it removed from your credit file altogether.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Actually, they attached a letter saying missed payments started on October 2006. So I can write to the CRA with this info? Is there a template letter I can use.

 

Thanks so much for your help! This is stressing me big time :))

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you are prob getting MARKERS

that the account is in default [late/low payment etc]

 

there can only be ONE default

that will be the one ending mar 2013

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Actually, they attached a letter saying missed payments started on October 2006. So I can write to the CRA with this info? Is there a template letter I can use.

 

Thanks so much for your help! This is stressing me big time :))

 

who are they

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ok

right so missed payments started oct 06

so 6 ts after that, it would have gone D on the CRA system anyhow.

 

NW checked paperwork for enforcement

found now.

sold the debt on a phishing list

hillies brought it

sent a letter

caught you as a mug

you started paying

where we are now.

 

two schools of though here;

 

it wont go till 6yrs fom your last £5 payment

or it will go from 6yrs since last natwest payment.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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