Suing Lloyds tsb

[xasan]

hi, i've found this site through MSE website and i have used your template letter to ask for charges back from lloyds tsb.

although this isnt the first time i've wrote to them about this, last time i wrote to my branch manager and he replied saying we got your money and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it.

 

but now i know they might not even contest, will definatly fill the claim.

 

great site.

 

***Edit***

just recieved the standard "we got your email, and we'll pass it on" reply

 

what next??

[BankFodder]

Can you explain what you included in your first letter

[xasan]

Can you explain what you included in your first letter

 

 

this is the first letter i've sent to them and i got it from http://www.bankcharges.info.

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Penalty & unfair charges – request for refund

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore irrecoverable at common law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79. Your charges do not reflect any actual or real loss, instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme.

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the ambit of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:

‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation’.

0n 26 July 2005 the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would be likely to award if the lender sued for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a lucrative profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are irrecoverable as an unfair term in contract.

I believe that your charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for being overdrawn without mutual agreement.

Please refund these charges to my account within the next 7 days, or I will commence court proceedings without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

[sIGNATURE]

[BankFodder]

The Govan letter is good but you didn't include any figure for your charges. You should have done.

Do you know how much you are claiming?

If yes then send them a letter before action referring to your disappointment in their negative reply to your previous letter.

If no then you need to work out what is owing or get the statements from the bank and then work it out. The send the LBA. Then the Good News.

[xasan]

i did include how much i was asking back but they refused, i sent the original letter to my branch manager, i've sent the sample letter on the library as email but they refused again.

 

i'm thinking filling at the small claims court, what you think?

[BankFodder]

I am very bias. I think that you should - but you have to make the decision.

 

You have to understand thoroughly what you are doing and what you might have to do if they defend. It's not dangerous but they may close your account and so you need to have another ready. The risks are loss of claims fee, closure of account, wasted effort a sense of humiliation.

 

 

How much is at stake?

[xasan]

i've got a natwest account for back up but i intend to sue them as well, i will start with natwest after i'm done with lloyds tsb.

 

i've got £600 overdraft with lloyds but they can take it back if they want.

 

they have charged me about £300 so far i think, the small claims fee is about £30 so i havent much to lose

[xasan]

the main thing i'm worried about is going to court and standing infront of a judge, i've never been to court before and their lawyer will have me for lunch.

[BankFodder]

You don't stand, you sit. It will be in an office with a large desk and you will be sitting on one side. No wigs, gowns etc - just suits. You can dress casually but cleanly. You address the judge as "Sir/Madam" and as you are acting in person the judge will assist you.

 

It is very rare that members of the public attend these hearings but you are allowed to do so if you wish.

Why don't you spend a couple of hours at your local county court. Speak to the court usher in one of the court rooms and say that you want to sit in quietly on two or three court proceedings.

It is your right to do so but as the usher will be surprised at the request, he/she will ask the judge who might just say yes or as he will be surprised as well, might ask you why you want to.

Just tell them that you are suing someone soon and you are nervous and you want to see what happens. I am sure that they will help you. In fact if they don't then come back here because we will have an issue to discuss with the court.

As long as you sit quietly and listen - don't take notes - it will be fine. You might even find that the judge may chat with you between cases and give you some tips! Do not attempt to discuss your forthcoming case with him.

 

I might put this into the FAQs.

[xasan]

thanks bankfodder, this is great help, i was thinkin about visiting the local magistrate court to see what happens there,

 

if you put an idea of what happens incase you go to court in FAQ it will help alot.

 

 

 

 

 

[[in fact if they don't then come back here because we will have an issue to discuss with the court. ]]

 

lol will sure do m8

[BankFodder]

Go the Mags if you like but only to see how very different it is to the County Court.

By the way, make it clear to the County Court usher - that you want to sit in on some small claims hearings. They will assume that you want to see something in open court. You don't.

[xasan]

thanks, didnt know that.

 

i've sent this to "david just" the assistant manager who replied to my email

 

i'll wait for his reply and act accordingly.

 

 

 

ref : BHAM/DJ/CC/867420

>

>> Dear Mr just

>>

>> Re: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses and Returned Items

>>

>> Thank you for taking the time to reply to my email.

>>

>>>since you refuse to willingly repay the unlawfull charges applied to my

account in the the last 5-6 years, you leave me no choice but to pursue

this matter through the courts.

 

thank you

[Guest stephen]

County Court are open courts and for civil matters and unless there a specific reason then the public is allowed to sit in on a case.

 

Mags courts are for criminal cases, also normally open courts but the laws and procedure will be different.

 

I do as BankFodder suggested and sit in on a case; also, if you are that worried you can have a Lay representative in the County court.

[xasan]

thanks stephen, i'm just listening to your LBC interview, pretty impressive.

[xasan]

filed my claims today, nothing more to do but sit tight and see who blinks first

[xasan]

filed my claims today, nothing more to do but sit tight and see who blinks first

[xasan]

claim issued

[xasan]

claim issued

[xasan]

just recieved an acknowledgment letter, their lawyer in london says he intends to defend it and they have 28 days to do so. slightly worried.

 

btw when is "the big claim" due in court?

[BankFodder]

Let us know when you get the dfence.

Start reading all the guidance notes and assembling all the evidence you can together.

 

trawl through all of the other posts and everytime you see someone refer to a letter or something which you think may be useful then pm them and ask for a copy.

[xasan]

just recieved two letters in one envelope, the first one says they have the right to charge and the usual cr*p, the second says they will settle if i return my visa electron card in exchange for a atm card but they also said this i quote

 

"payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim and any future claims you have or may have against lloyds arising out of, or in anyway connected to, this claim and any furthur charges on my account"

 

does that mean they want me to waive the right to sue them if they charge me in the future?

[DJENKS]

i am ready

[xasan]

ready for what?

[dolly]

just recieved two letters in one envelope, the first one says they have the right to charge and the usual cr*p, the second says they will settle if i return my visa electron card in exchange for a atm card but they also said this i quote

 

"payment will be in full and final settlement of this claim and any future claims you have or may have against lloyds arising out of, or in anyway connected to, this claim and any furthur charges on my account"

 

does that mean they want me to waive the right to sue them if they charge me in the future?

 

I think it does.

 

And if you only have a visa electron card now, you could always set up an account with the Co-Op and get the same, leaving you with just your ATM card from the TSB.

 

What is happening with your overdraft from them, has anything been mentioned about that?

 

Oh, and finally...well done

[richardc]

Aren't they petty!!!Take away a debit card because you've caught them with their hand in your pocket. Is this claim all you want from them? In any event open another account now as Dolly says. Natwest will also give you a debit card with their Step Account