Charge for investigation of problem

[Fairdeals]

When I recently left my car in for servicing I told the dealership to fix my drivers door which was not closing properly. I was told by telephone later on the day that there would be a two hour labour charge for work on the door as they would have to strip the door to discover the problem. The labour rate is 100 per hour plus vat. They later told me that they needed to order a part (a door seal) which would take another hour and a half labour to fit. Total 3.5 hours.

 

The door seal that needs replacing is clearly visible without having to strip the door and one wonders why I was charged the two hours for investigation. I brought it to their attention and they were adamant that they spent two hours investigating. If I had of known that it would be 3.5 hours total I would have gone elsewhere.

 

Is this par for the course or am I being ripped off?

[Gick]

Fairdeals,

 

You do need to identify the make and model of vehicle and the symptoms of the fault as described to the dealer so that a judgement on the time spent can be made. Your rough location and whether or not it is a franchise dealership would help with relation to the hourly rate.

[Fairdeals]

The dealer is a mercedes main dealer. The car is a 1996 E Class coupe (w124) and door seal around door mirror was determined to be at fault.

 

When I left in the car I told the garage that the driver's door was not closing properly.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Fairdeals

[raydetinu]

main dealer prices, such a rip off!! local garage £25/hour. your choice.

Having said that, if they have done something you did not ask for or not corrected the fault you asked them to then dont pay.

[Fairdeals]

I was told 2 hours labour to deal with the door but later told that this was to 'investigate' the door problem. Then they wanted a further 1.5 hour 'to fix' the problem.

[raydetinu]

two hours to investigate a door seal does sound a bit excessive! ask them to explain or show you what they had to do! and who did it, a trainee no doubt.

[Fairdeals]

There was no mention of charging for an estimate or investigation when I dropped car off for it''s service. They phoned me later to say that they would need two hours labour for the door. I understood this to mean that they needed two hours labour to repair. Then later they said they needed to order a door seal and this will take another 1.5 hours to put on. They are currently waiting on the door seal. I have used main dealers before but have never had a trick like this pulled on me. The two hours investigation has cost me €250 euro (labour plus vat).

Edited August 6, 2011 by Fairdeals

[raydetinu]

Euro, where are you, not in UK then!

Anyway, you have to ask them to justify it and explian what you thought you were paying for!

Up to you now, if you think its unfair then dont pay them or negotiate a reduction.

Nothing is set in stone these days and everything is up for a bit of bartering.

[Gick]

Dear Fairdeals,

 

I notice that you have not responded to raydetinu's post asking you for your location. Whilst it matters not that you are outside of the UK for this post, it would shed light on the relative value of the hourly rate. The UK for mercedes workshops would be £80 - £110 depending on location equivalent to 95-120€. The Republic of Ireland would be 80-100€, other areas could be in excess of 120€., ex vat.

 

As far as the time to diagnose the problem is concerned, I can understand your bemusement, however it should be appreciated that stating that the door was not closing properly when putting the car in for service, can easily be taken as an instruction to identify and rectify the problem. The door seal, even if showing visible signs would need to be removed to see if the door then closed satisfactorily without it in situ, thus confirming the fault. After all, if one had been ordered and fitted but the fault remained, you would not have been happy!

 

The seal on the vehicle, unlike 'bread and butter' cars, is not fitted in tracks on the edge of the door, or by plastic clips that can easily be popped out. The door panel must first be removed, together with all the switches and controls. I have personally stripped a W124 (admittedly not the coupe) and can vouch for a time of in excess of 1 hour to strip and reassemble. Had the required seal been in stock, diagnosis and repair within 2 hours (bearing in mind looking at other, simpler, possibilities first and time requesting the part etc) would to my mind have been reasonable. As the seal needed ordering, to be expected for a 15 year old vehicle of a model that was not the most numerous built and might take in excess of a week, reassemble would seem the prudent course so that the vehicle could, in the meantime, be available for use.

 

You have not said if you have been a customer at this dealership previously, but Mercedes owners usually expect and receive a high level of service, for which they are happy to pay, so the service reception might not have thought it necessary to explain the details of what would be involved in finding the fault and rectifying if possible. If you have had the vehicle serviced there in the past, you might be able to negotiate a rebate of some or even all of the labour cost for the fitting of the seal when it comes into stock. Ask to speak to the service manager and explain that you were not told that the 2 hours that you were quoted 'for the door' would apply even though the job could not be completed.

 

As you are not within the UK, any consumer rights will probably be different, although one would expect a similar protection from any European Community member.

 

raydetinu,

 

I certainly would not like my C270 to be worked on by an independat workshop only charging £25 p hour, as I know of none employing time-served mechanics let alone Mercedes trained, working for such a low hourly rate, not even 'mates rates'. A local independant workshop specializing in Mercedes, charges £65.

Edited August 7, 2011 by Gick
word missing

[raydetinu]

Its a door seal!; not stripping the engine and rebuilding it. local body shop may also do a good job!

Its horses for courses; would not dream of any local garage touching my electrics or engine; thats specialist stuff. oil change maybe! ( do it myself even cheaper )

[traffer]

MB doors are notoriously difficult to take apart. 2 hours to investigate a "difficult to close problem" is very excessive.

 

A visual check of the latch would reveal if there is any wear

A visual check of the striker would be a good check for wear and indicative of door misalignment.

Then a check of the seals, again visual. It is very obvious when a seal is misbehaving as there are usually wear marks here there should not be.

Dismantling should not be needed for any of there as all are visible with the door open.

[Gick]

I agree that a good bodyshop would be able to deal with this problem possibly quicker and most likely cheaper, but the fact is that the vehicle was put in for a service at a main dealership with the additional complaint of the door closure problem.

 

Traffer,

I agree that in the majority of cases, misalignment in particular, result in signs of wear to be observed. 'It is very obvious when a seal is misbehaving as there are usually wear marks here there should not be.' IF there are no wear marks where there should not be, what do you then do? After all it is 15 years old, so distinguishing new marks from age related ones becomes more difficult. What further investigation would you enter into, at what cost?

 

It is easy to be critical of other workmanship when you are not in the firing line. One failing of the forum is that we only have the OP's side of things. This thread should be read in association with the OP's other thread posted 20 minutes later.

Not told about Servicing Special Offer

 

The OP has not yet responded with the means for us to look at the terms and conditions of that website special offer, so it is difficult to formulate an opinion as to the fairness of the dealership.

[traffer]

Gick,

To answer your question, if there was no problem with striker adjustment, latch wear or seals on the drivers door, I would compare with the passengers door which appears to be OK. Slowly closing each door in turn to gauge the difference in closing effort. Also, I forgot to mention hinge wear - check by lifting the door and possibly a tight check arm. If the vehicle has a frameless door there is also the possibility of the glass being out of alignment due to a guide/window reg problem. Again comparison with passenger side will highlight this. Still not clocked up 2 hours though.

[Gick]

Traffer,

the steps that you describe are what most experienced mechanics/bodyworkers would naturally undertake. However, you must have superb iconic memory if you can look at one door, walk to the other, mirror image what you first saw and detect the subtle difference that could be the cause of the problem. You would also have to mentally analyse what was long term wear (typically the driver's door is opened and closed 10 times more often than the passenger side) and if there was sufficient difference to cause the problem to appear at this time.

 

The OP has not responded to other questions, so is unlikely to tell us how long they have owned the vehicle and for how long there has been the difficulty. So if there were some signs on the seals, you would automatically order a new one at about £70? Without knowing that this would solve the problem?

 

You were not there, I was not there, so we do not know exactly what was required to determine unacquivocally the cause of the complaint. I still maintain that it was good practice to remove the door panel (which you have previously admitted are notoriously difficult to take apart) to test the closing without the seal. You cannot remove the seal (other than tearing it off) without removing the panel. They would then have been in the position to reinstate the seal if the cause was elsewhere.

 

You mention, 'If the vehicle has a frameless door there is also the possibility of the glass being out of alignment due to a guide/window reg problem'. Were you talking hypothetically, or because you are unfamiliar with this model without googling it?I am not making excuses for the Mercedes dealer, merely pointing out that (a) we do not have all the facts and (b) what might appear simple on some vehicles can be more complicated on others so relevant experience is important.

[traffer]

Gick,

Not sure of the point you are tying to make here. But to respect the concerns of the OP, do you consider that 2 hours to investigate a door closing issue to be excessive? I certainly do, and that is based on more than 25 years on working with the design and development of products related to doors and how they can affect ease of opening/closing, noise, rattles, etc etc etc.

[Gick]

Traffer,

the simple answer is no, I do not know if 2 hours was excessive, as I was not there to observe. Neither were you. In my original response to the OP's thread, I was simply pointing out the possible reasons for this length of time from my experience with the model range. You may not have read my suggestion that they speak to the Service Manager. 'Ask to speak to the service manager and explain that you were not told that the 2 hours that you were quoted 'for the door' would apply even though the job could not be completed.' etc

 

With the greatest of respect, your comment about the 2 hours being excesive, 'I certainly do, and that is based on more than 25 years on working with the design and development of products related to doors and how they can affect ease of opening/closing, noise, rattles, etc etc etc.' really does not answer my question as to whether you are familiar with the model (as am I) or of working on any Mercedes (as do I ), or to be able to bring anything other than academic thoughts to the situation.

[traffer]

So, Gick, we have a difference in opinion as to wether 2 hours is excessive. Not a problem. Based on our differing knowledge and experience of doors in general and the model of vehicle in particular that is understandable.

 

As a forum that is trying to help people by sharing knowledge and experience, it can be most off putting to people who are considering posting when people start having spats on here. I am not going to further dignify your opinions about my knowledge of door systems with further comment.