I have my hearing on monday where i am appealing

[tidon]

Hi leemack, i've been reading your posts of advice about tribunals, i have my hearing on monday where i am appealing against receiving no points at all out of the 15, my condition is diverticular decease and IBS which is very painful 24/7 but the Decision Maker thinks i must be telling lies but anyway the question i want to ask is, during the past 4 months i have developed a frozen shoulder and that is very very painful, should i mention this at the hearing or do as you have said below..? thanks.

 

It is often best to avoid all mention of new or worsening conditions at tribunal unless specifically asked.

[honeybee13]

Hi leemack, i've been reading your posts of advice about tribunals, i have my hearing on monday where i am appealing against receiving no points at all out of the 15, my condition is diverticular decease and IBS which is very painful 24/7 but the Decision Maker thinks i must be telling lies but anyway the question i want to ask is, during the past 4 months i have developed a frozen shoulder and that is very very painful, should i mention this at the hearing or do as you have said below..? thanks.

 

It is often best to avoid all mention of new or worsening conditions at tribunal unless specifically asked.

 

Hello tidon, welcome to the forum.

 

It would be better if you have your own thread here for advice specific to your own problem. I'll ask the site team to have a look, unless Erika happens to notice this.

 

My best, HB

[cerberusalert]

posts moved and new thread created.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Leemack may be along later to advise you, but my understanding [not as extensive as leemack's] is that the Tribunal will be looking at your condition at the time you were turned down for ESA.

 

How are your preparations going? Have you looked at the forum sticky on appeals and tribunals or do you have someone helping you? The better prepared you are when you go along, the more chance you have of being successful.

 

My best, HB

 

PS Thank you to cerberusalert.

Edited July 28, 2011 by honeybee13
PS.

[Nystagmite]

my understanding [not as extensive as leemack's] is that the Tribunal will be looking at your condition at the time you were turned down for ESA.

 

I was told this too. And remember - it's not the name of the condition; but the effects it has on you. Do you have nay medical evidence that states what problems you have due to your disabilities?

[tidon]

Hi HB, I have a a look on the forum sticky on appeals and tribunals and have picked up a few pointers, i will be going to the tribunal on my own and at the moment i'm just writing them a email as i never got to send them any evidence to support my case as ive just had my hospital appointment this week for some more results which now as been confirmed that not only do i have Diverticular Disease, (pouches of the bowel) thickening of the colon and a twisted kidney but also IBS as well now?

i will be focusing on the pain aspect and how it effects my daily life rather than the actual conditions but at the medical assessment i explained all this but still scored nil points?

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[tidon]

I was told this too. And remember - it's not the name of the condition; but the effects it has on you. Do you have nay medical evidence that states what problems you have due to your disabilities?

 

The only evidence i have is the results that my doctor has i presume from the hospitals but dont no how to go about asking for papers and such from my doctor as i dont no my rights regarding stuff like that?

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I would like someone to confirm, but I'd say it's worth taking your diagnosis along if it refers to the problems you had when you applied for ESA.

 

Have you got a copy of your Atos report? Because I won my tribunal by going through it with a fine tooth comb and pointing out all the inaccuracies and the places where it even contradicted itself. That's what the template in my sticky is for.

 

It's not ideal, but I think you could take this sort of summary with you to hand in before you see the panel.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

Sorry, I may have misunderstood. What medical papers do you have at the moment please?

 

My best, HB

[tidon]

Sorry, I may have misunderstood. What medical papers do you have at the moment please?

 

My best, HB

 

Is Atos report the medical report form? (ESA85 form) if so then yes i have that but i dont have any medical papers, i have not been properly informed as to what to do and only found this site two days ago as its all been one big rush as my appeal is on monday but i didnt get my final results from the hospital till last monday so i'm finding it hard to get things together to support my case? is it possible to get in adjourned till i get all my evidence sorted?

[honeybee13]

Yes, ESA85 sounds right. Does it talk about your state of health and the things they gave you 0 points for?

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

The other thing I was going to say in case I sign off before you reply, was will your GP let you have copies of your medical reports if you go in tomorrow, do you think?

 

It would be nice if someone would confirm if that's a good idea before you go to a lot of trouble, but if I wanted to do that, I would ring my GP's secretary to explain the problem and see if they would help by letting me have photocopies.

 

My best, HB

[RaeUK]

Definately a good idea, HB. The more supporting evidence you can take the better. If taking on the day, try and get there a little early so you can hand them in with an explanation that you've only just received them...

[tidon]

Yes, ESA85 sounds right. Does it talk about your state of health and the things they gave you 0 points for?

 

My best, HB

 

Yes this seems to be the right form, a lot of the questions like walking, reaching, standing, sitting etc say "None Of The Above Apply" but like i say, i will be trying to explain that its he pain and discomfort that i have 24/7 but i think i will find it hard because you cannot see pain and just because i can stand up, sit down and even carry a pint of milk then i'm going to find it impossible to win?

How does one try to explain and prove that pain is a disability as well?

[honeybee13]

Yes this seems to be the right form, a lot of the questions like walking, reaching, standing, sitting etc say "None Of The Above Apply" but like i say, i will be trying to explain that its he pain and discomfort that i have 24/7 but i think i will find it hard because you cannot see pain and just because i can stand up, sit down and even carry a pint of milk then i'm going to find it impossible to win?

How does one try to explain and prove that pain is a disability as well?

 

Hello again. I would say this is where you think about how your pain and discomfort affect your daily life and how they restrict you.

 

And as I said, look at the DWP's own descriptors and tell the panel how many points you think you should have been awarded. In other words, use the DWP's own system and rules against them. There's a link to the descriptors in my sticky.

 

If you get all that written down, typed up if you can, and hand it in on Monday, you won't just be relying on the panel to ask you the right questions and will have more of a say.

 

I have family committments this weekend, but will get online when I can. I should be around later on Sunday if not before.

 

My best, HB

[leemack]

Hi. To your first question, no, if your frozen shoulder is new since the Atos assessment then its best not to bring it up, it muddies the waters to bring up new or deteriorated conditions. Of course if asked directly you have to be honest. But there's no point volunteering irrelevant information.

 

You can ask for an adjournment, but it usually needs to be in writing (though you could fax it over) and is less likely to be given at short notice.

 

Whether or not you have a case is down to how you score on the descriptors. Have you gone through them and scored yourself to see if you think you score 15 points?

 

The descriptors aren't just about whether you can do that task once. You have to be able to repeat it after a short rest. Also severe pain is a factor, and if something is extremely painful to do then this can be taken into account. But they will take note of pain medication you are on - if you're only on mild painkillers then they are less likely to see pain as an issue.

 

If after looking at the descriptors, you still feel you score at least 15 points, then look at honeybee's sticky on appeals - it has great info in it.

 

Then write your own statement for the tribunal, pointing out any errors in the atos report, and stating your reasons for why you feel each descriptor applies to you - include examples from daily life for each descriptor you feel you should score points on.

 

Here is a thread where we helped a cagger with their statement - although its about mental health in this case, it gives you an idea.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?301700-ESA-Tribunal-Hearing-Anxiety-***WON***

[tidon]

Hello again. I would say this is where you think about how your pain and discomfort affect your daily life and how they restrict you.

 

And as I said, look at the DWP's own descriptors and tell the panel how many points you think you should have been awarded. In other words, use the DWP's own system and rules against them. There's a link to the descriptors in my sticky.

 

If you get all that written down, typed up if you can, and hand it in on Monday, you won't just be relying on the panel to ask you the right questions and will have more of a say.

 

I have family committments this weekend, but will get online when I can. I should be around later on Sunday if not before.

 

My best, HB

 

Thanks HB, i have use words from your template and will be going over the DWP's own descriptors and will try and get things typed up for monday.. thanks

[tidon]

Thanks for yours and HB help its much appreciated.. could you tell me if these are points of law..

the medical assessment officer seems to have lied a lot, saying things that i didnt even say like, i go to my daughters that lives a 5 min walk away when i told him she lives next door about 30 seconds away and that i hoover my living room everyday when i dont even have a hoover.?

If i loose my appeal which isn't looking too promising to be honest as i'm really struggling, can i use these points to appeal in the next stage.? thanks

[leemack]

I think you're getting confused talking about points of law, you don't need to worry about points of law. Just find the errors on the atos report and make your case for each descriptor you want to score points on . The points for descriptors aren't points of law - they're just points that are added up.

 

The errors on the atos report are just that - errors made by the assessor on which the dwp decision maker based the decision on. And yes, what you've described are the type of errors you need to be pointing out.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Fwiw, when I had my tribunal, the panel took my word for things, so if you tell them how it really is, they should believe you.

 

My OH had a chat with a tribunal chairman once and this man told him that's how they view what they're told by claimants. Keep going, it sounds as if you're doing well.

 

My best, HB

[tidon]

I think you're getting confused talking about points of law, you don't need to worry about points of law. Just find the errors on the atos report and make your case for each descriptor you want to score points on . The points for descriptors aren't points of law - they're just points that are added up.

 

The errors on the atos report are just that - errors made by the assessor on which the dwp decision maker based the decision on. And yes, what you've described are the type of errors you need to be pointing out.

 

Sorry leemack i am getting confused and i'm also getting stressed with it all. i've gone through the Descriptors and there are a lot of items where i think i should have scored points but i'm sturggling to put them into words.

I'll keep this really short but what i suffer with is diverticular disease which basicley is pouches of the bowel but they become enflamed and infected and cause sever pain, this can last weeks or months but with me i still leaves pain and discomfort 24/7 and feels like i have something like the size of a tennis ball sticking out of my somache wih is very painful and uncomfortable,

 

Ive had loads of test from CT scans to conoloscopy only to comferm diverticular disease and IBS.

What it is, is i'm dyslexic and find it hard to explian things in writing, would it be possiable for you to help me to explian in just one of the descriptors to give me a idea as how to write things down and then i will be able to do the rest..

 

a,b,e,and f apply to me but i dont no how to put it down in writing so that the board unstands me but basicley because of the pain and discomfort i cannot stand or sit for the amount of time its states because i have to lay down flat and rub the affected area and this last for weeks and even now sat typing this i find it really uncomfortable and keep having to lay back and massarge my stomache. in the appeal i no i wont be able to sit there for that amount of time but i'll be too scared to move because i'll think there will be thinking i'm kidding.?

any help would be more than appreciated.

also is there a link to find the descriptors in stead of having to copy them from my papers so i can just copy and paste them?

thanks

 

ACTIVTY 2 - STANDING and SITTING.

 

a)cANNOT STAND FOR MORE THAN 10 MINS BEFORE NEEDING TO SIT DOWN.

B)CANNOT SIT IN A CHAIR FOR MORE THAN 10 MINS BEFORE NEEDING TO MOVE BECAUSE OF DISCOMFORT.

c)n/a

d)n/a

e)CANNOT STAND FOR MORE THAN 30 MINS BEFORE NEEDING TO SIT DOWN.

f)CANNOT SIT IN A CHAIR FOR MORE THAN 30 MINS BEFORE NEEDING TO MOVE BECAUSE OF DISCOMFORT.

[tidon]

Hi HB, just wondering if you can help me with the post i've just posted to leemack.. thanks

[Nystagmite]

You can only scores in each section for one descriptor. So, in your case, you can only score point on A); even though others apply to you.

 

cANNOT STAND FOR MORE THAN 10 MINS BEFORE NEEDING TO SIT DOWN.

 

You now need to explain why. You could do it like this:

"If I stand for more than 10 minute happens"

 

being you telling them what happens. Basically, you need to treat them as though they don't understand your disabilities at all.

[leemack]

Firstly I need to ask a couple of things.

 

How long can you sit for in an upright chair before needing to move from the chair?

 

How long can you stand for, before needing to sit down.

 

Can you give some daily life examples of where you either can't stand for long or can't sit for long - for instance, I can't stand for long so have to do the washing up in short 5 minute bouts with rests inbetween - these type of daily life examples.

[tidon]

You can only scores in each section for one descriptor. So, in your case, you can only score point on A); even though others apply to you.

 

 

 

You now need to explain why. You could do it like this:

"If I stand for more than 10 minute happens"

 

being you telling them what happens. Basically, you need to treat them as though they don't understand your disabilities at all.

so for each secion of the descriptors i dont have to write about a,b,c,d etc? just the one like A, that aplies? thanks