Ingeus

[osdset]

I had a similar experience with reed in partnership, I was placed with them for 12 weeks, in that time they:

Lost my full birth certificate

Lost my passport application

Lost my passport photos

They insisted I needed a passport and said they would fund it, the advisor didn't even apply for the funding.

I had a total of six advisors, the first one left due to no promotion prospects, the next one interviewed me once and promptly went sick, the third saw me twice then was moved to a different department, the fourth left the job on the day of my appointment, the fifth was taken off my case after I complained about her gross rudeness and incompetence, the sixth was ok until she insisted that I attended every day (it was once a week with the others) I managed to get out of that as it was two weeks to the end of the placement so I took my two week holiday entitlement, they weren't happy but could do nothing about it apart from conveniently forgetting to pay me the last fortnights money, it took me three weeks to get it out of them, they kept blaming the DWP for not completing paperwork, which I knew for a fact was a lie.

 

Reed's office was a complete joke half the computers were defunct in some way, job searches were limited to their 'approved' sites, the only newspaper supplied was the free London Metro, no tea coffee making facility's just a water butt, no where to sit and have lunch, pretty dreadful all round.

There was a definite culture of how much have Reed earned this week? And zero commitment to getting anyone a suitable, sustainable job.

 

I ended up making a complaint to my MP, about their incompetence and the fact that no one would address my lost documents, she got straight on to Reed's CEO then the apology letters started to arrive with a promise to fund replacements for the lost documents, and excuses about poor service. THREE MONTHS LATER I wrote to Reed's CEO and threatened him with the small claims court as I had received nothing, the cheque was in the post recorded delivery two days later.

All these providers are parasites the whole set up is one big con, talk to anyone sensible at the jobcentre about Reed, Ingeus, or any of the clones and you will see plenty of shrugs, and eye rolling, even they recognise that these companies are useless at what they are being paid for.

[osdset]

Well YorkyLad has just confirmed my concerns about these "providers".

Wonder whether one could simply give them fake employer details?

Also agree with him re: employer contact details. Could be quite a few small firms out there that really won't like the idea of Government-contracted private companies systematically checking up on them , and one could imagine that the prospect of this may actually put them off the new employee.

The idea that your new worker needs babysitting by these "providers" surely doesn't look good? If I was an employer (I have been in the past) I would not sanction this kind of snooping for financial gain - especially if I was running a busy company. Imagine trying to steer a company, and meanwhile getting calls like this:

 

"Hello, it's Wayne from Ignorameus: just wanted to see how little Johnny is getting on. Is he turning up for work regularly? Do you envisage employing him for the next year? We'd like to know..."

 

Seriously - f**k that!

I'll forgo the £75. I just don't need these people snooping into my life. ; )

I wonder if the £75 is still payable if you went self employed? They could phone you up as much as they want, 'yes I went in today, I've given myself a pay rise! I will definitely be employing me for the foreseeable future' lol

[osdset]

I know that Reed have been dropped from the gravy train in my area, they have quit the building they occupied the trouble is that some other parasite will fill the vacuum.

[osdset]

It depends of course if you are entitled to the job grant and housing benefit run on payments as these will only be paid if you are employed over 16 hours per week and expected to be employed at least 5 weeks.

If you are entitled to that extra payment and want to claim for it then you have to state that you have started work however you do not have to declare where you are working, but you would have to sign off by completing and returning for es40 and not through the telephony in work team as they cannot process you information without employers details etc.

 

If you stated that you had become self employed would the job grant and run on payments still be paid?

[osdset]

If you told them you were self-employed you'd need to provide, at the very least, your VAT number for them to check i think. You'd have signed (in order to get the £75) for the provider to be able to communicate with bodies about your earnings etc for the next two years. Very intrusive I think.

 

Sorry I should of clarified what type of self employment, I meant self employed as in the building industry whereby you can sub contract to a company, or take on your own jobs, very few one man bands would be registered for VAT, that's the background I come from and still tend to think in self employed terms, the provider would have to rely on you to give any info on earnings. This is all a bit complicated though as in reality the term 'sub contractor' is somewhat misleading as you are in fact a temporary employee who is responsible for his/her own tax and NI without the benefit of holiday or sick pay, without now any advantage in terms of hourly or daily rate (we used to earn way above the hourly rate for someone on PAYE, those days are long gone).

I would imagine though that the providers have sussed this one and have some kind of rider in place to block a payout in these circumstances.

 

As far as the Jobcentre is concerned, in my experience I never had any problems signing on after a job or contract finished as I was not deemed to have voluntarily left the employment, likewise when signing off, it was generally accepted that I would be in and out of work continually.

[osdset]

Right you lot that have failed the ATOS assessment, get your CV's off to CF Appointments, you are guaranteed a job!

[osdset]

The very first time Ingeus / The Work Programme contacted me, it was by phone. A call centre in Birmingham(?) The guy asked if I was on any other benefits (in addition to JSA). I told him 'yeah, Housing Benefit'. (I was a bit confused as I thought he'd know that..)

But after reading this thread, I realise it's probably a data protection thing.

 

I used to subvert this kind of thing all the time

 

Provider "can we have your contact details?"

 

Me " you can contact me at [email protected], or write to my home address"

 

Provider "no, we must have a phone number"

 

Me "sorry, I do not posses a phone"

 

Provider "Oh come on everyone has at least a mobile phone"

 

Me "well I don't, I can't afford one on the pittance I get"

 

Provider "you must get a mobile phone It's imperative in this day and age"

 

Me "Ok, when are you going to pay for one"

Provider "we're not"

 

Me "conversation over then!"

[osdset]

Copied from the Ingeus web site

 

Ingeus’ reputation for integrity, dynamism and quality is built on our core principles:

• Recruiting the highest quality staff and partners
  
• Delivering from professional offices that create an expectation of achievement
  
• Having rigorous auditing and monitoring procedures
  
• Adopting an ethical approach to programme delivery
  
• Setting high standards of performance for ourselves and for our clients.
  

Ok, where is the punch line? This is a joke isn't it?

[osdset]

Imagine a Utopian society of 100% long term employment, we would have no more need of jobcentres the DWP could be scaled back, goodbye Ingeous and the clones we don't require your services anymore, the employment agencies could virtually close, etc, etc. Then imagine the impact this would have on jobs within those industries, the impact on the shareholders, the impact on the economy of the loss of the multi Billion pound confidence trick.

It ain't gonna happen, the last thing this or any government wants is mass full time employment, in fact the system is engineered to prevent it, the 10% who have and control the wealth in this country cannot have the lower echelon of the social / economic pyramid rising up through the layers, the pyramid becomes more and more unstable as the foundation layers of the unemployed become eroded the net result is that nothing will be left to support the apex.

 

For the little Lord Fauntleroy's and the hooray Henry's, the parasitic interbred bunch of fools that call themselves the Royal family, the captains of industry and the government this scenario is unthinkable, and beyond the pale. We (the undeserving poor) should know our place and stay there, don't dream of a better life or a better way, the role model was laid down by the Victorians, the Mill, the Factory, and the Workhouse, let prison deal with the rest.

I'll give it 10 years or less before we are back there.

[osdset]

I'm not with Ingeus (though I know them from FND) - I'm on the WP with A4greed. My approach has been to tell them that my preferred method of communication is by post - this (helpfully!) is one of the options set out in their sickeningly saccharine "Welcome Aboard!" booklet. So far I have refused to give them any phone numbers or e mail addresses. I have been asked why and I reply that I don't trust them with my data. So far this has worked.

 

Lol! These Muppets must have got wind of the fact that more and more claimants are wise to the data protection act, I bet there is much gnashing, and grinding of teeth when it's brought up, tie them up in knots and make life as difficult a possible, I almost wish I was still signing on I fancy joining in this fun.

[osdset]

 

What if you get a minimum wage job that pays less that you get in benefits now?

 

You get working tax credit as a top up, and I think that there is some help with housing benefit, BUT you are still in the benefits trap, stuck on a pittance wage and dependent on handouts to get by. If the BOC is more than benefit level even by a few pence you would be expected to take the job.

[osdset]

My husband, a 51 year-old highly skilled cabinet-maker and joiner, has been given an interview by these idiots... as a telephone debt collector! Apparently they no longer get any money unless they place you in a job so will send you to the most ridiculous (and frankly unsavoury) jobs. Why? In the hope that you will refuse the job and therefore be 'off' JSA? Absolutely unconscionable.

 

I come from a similar skill base to your husband and I was offered a part time job driving a delivery van for Iceland, I know that there is a demand for skilled craftsmen, so what's the problem?

Your husband is 51, I am 55, draw your own conclusions.

[osdset]

I think I see the problem. I am older than both of you (and, I dare say, better quailified) but I would love a part time job driving a van for Iceland (I have been registered on their website for some time now with no response). I would, however hate a target driven, results orientated, anti-social hours job which involved phoning people up under subterfuge to threaten them in order to try to get repayment of debt. There is absolutely no comparison between the two positions.

 

I was not making a comparison between the two positions, both jobs are IMHO demeaning taken in context, I was drawing attention to the ages involved. Regardless of whatever skills or qualifications a claimant may have, if age comes into play the tendency seems to be to push for what I would term 'no brainer' positions.

 

As for the comment (and I dare say, better qualified) I find it offensive, on what do you base that assumption on exactly? I hold an advanced City & Guilds carpentry / joinery, a HND in Musical Instrument Technology, and a BSc (hons) in Musical Instrument Technology.

I think I am qualified enough in general terms thanks very much.

 

If a part time driving job is sufficient for your needs and if you can secure such a position then all well and good, however as you have aptly demonstrated, with your better qualifications, and advanced years no driving jobs were forthcoming, I rest my case.

[osdset]

Really? the government tops it up? Do you have to fill out mountains of paperwork and wait an eternity?

 

So, let me just get this straight:

 

 

 

• Suppose Ingeus can get me a menial job, paying minimum wage, and I take it
  
• The government would top up my earnings to give me what I would be getting from Housing Benefit + JSA?
  

 

 

 

I wish there was a YouTube video that explained Working Tax Credits in simple terms. Or a website written in simple English.

Can I do a BOC (Better Off Calculation) myself?

 

You have to be better off working than on the dole even if it's not by very much otherwise there would be no incentive to sign off, the DWP recognise this, although their idea of better off and yours may be quite different!

 

If you can understand the minefield that is working tax credit then yes, you can do your own BOC, good luck!

[osdset]

Slightly off topic this, I am currently claiming ESA my assessment is tomorrow, on paper I should get 15 points I am expecting 0. If push comes to shove and I end up back on JSA I will have an interesting time, I am a Carpenter / Joiner by trade I have been told that my working day's in this capacity are well and truly over due to my health, so I would reflect that in any Jobseekers agreement I had to make, I am also a qualified Guitar maker / repairer ( which is formally known as a Luthier), so this will be the profession I would now put down, can you imagine the look on their faces when they read the Job description Luthier, WTF is a Luthier?

[osdset]

I have a Phillips MP3 player that I bought years ago, it records brilliantly, it will pick up a pin drop in a quiet room, slightly smaller than a credit card in footprint and about 3/8" thick perfect for a shirt top pocket.

I would personally always record covertly, you will get them off guard, if you inform organisations that you are recording an interview they always throw up objections and barriers, having said that, they are probably recording you as most places have security cameras.

[osdset]

Correction! The figure from Learn Direct kickback is approx £1200. I got this figure from the Indus Delta site here http://indusdelta.co.uk/discussion/how_work_programme/7493

The exact quotation is:

"As you will probably know, approximately £1200 can be made from a client completing Numeracy & Literacy via Learndirect. I even had a spreadsheet which calculated how much the client had earned the organisation at each stage of the course. The organisation was even getting away with double funding, using the same client to claim on Learndirect and LSC funded projects (W/Links subcontract). If the client reached £1200 the organisation would sometimes pay for outside training such as CSCS cards, but only if they reached the £1200 target."

 

Hmm interesting, I was farmed out to Reed in partnership in 2010, it should have been for 26 weeks but as I found out at my initial appointment with Reed, the DWP had cut the time to 13 weeks (yippee!) I informed Reed that the main reason I was finding it difficult to get back into work was that my CSCS card had expired, they indicated to me that there would be no problem funding a re-test and the cost of a new card, it never happened.

 

One advantage though, was the subject became a great conversation stopper when I was pressured about job applications and interviews, I would remind them that the CSCS was mandatory on most sites, and the reply would be "OK then John we'll see you next week".

[osdset]

I have just registered on the Indus delta site, very interesting reading the feedback from those working for the providers, it looks like all is not well with the Work Program, never mind eh!

[osdset]

davidsf2

The CSCS scheme is a clever confidence trick, and is not fit for purpose, the exam is a memory test nothing more, the hardest part of it is remembering which colour fire extinguisher can be used for a particular fire. They have replaced common sense with a manual, how it can be right for the test to be held in several other languages when all signage on site is in English? A cynical view could be that it has been made easier for migrant workers to pass.

Plus it's a nice little money spinner £17.50 for every test, and £30 for the card. The industry seems to have by and large signed up to it, so it's getting to be a closed shop. As for site safety itself, I know from experience I have had to do it myself when running jobs, when the deadline is looming and penalty clauses are looking a likely prospect H&S goes out of the window, just draft a load of blokes in at the weekend when no one who matters is looking, and get the job done.

 

You made a very valid point about having to fund certification, plant etc, bear in mind most workers are 'self employed' I use that term loosely because the reality is that there will never be a profit margin, you can never set your own hourly or daily rate, you cannot send someone else in place of yourself to fulfill your obligations, all of which I would say are prerequisites of being self employed the wages on offer are by and large the same as the equivalent on PAYE so, factor in no sick or holiday pay and the self employed construction worker is getting a very raw deal.

[osdset]

Well I'm out of the building game now, even managing sites is out of reach, the last couple of firms I worked for were 'old school' who employed men on merit and experience, they have both gone bust due to the recession.

Site managers in the main are now required to have SMSTS (site manager site safety scheme) this is a five day course which costs anything from £450 upwards, First Aid certificate, and the CSCS site managers card, some are even asking for NEBOSH (health and safety certification) and IPAF, (cherry picker/scissor lift ticket).

 

All these certificates look really cool on the walls of the porta-cabin that doubles as the site office, and no doubt instill huge confidence among the workforce, so when your not doubling up as the site nurse, and H&S officer, ensuring supervisory staff carry out toolbox talks, overseeing site inductions and taking photos of the dozens of blokes who start every day for the obligatory ID card, wasting half a day trying to find someone who can translate Polish, Lithuanian, Albanian, Bulgarian, Russian, Macedonian, and serbo-croat, so you can insist that operatives wear PPE at all times (because they can't read the effing signs) you might just get to run the job.

[osdset]

I don't know what they do with that money as my provider refuses to pay my travel expenses. They say they only pay when people spend more than two hours at the centre (the average face-to-face interview lasts about 40 minutes).

 

That's ridiculous, what difference does it make how long you are there? Two hours or two minutes, you still had to get there and you still had to get home, I would certainly insist they explain just what the logic behind that decision was.

[osdset]

Hi Batacha

 

This was confirmed by DWP and my Friend also had HB and CT removed - put in apeal I think - but in the immediate had no money, this was when I funded him with £60 to get load of pot noodles and some Electric while this was going on so he wouldnt have to get Crisis Loan which he would have to pay back just when I was getting his O/D under control - just then a Job Agency sent him on a Job that was supposed to be until Xmas so told to sign off but said Job only was 2 nights (16 hours ) and the Company said Agency had send too many people so had to sign on again.

 

This was about when he heard from one of the other JSA that DWP were making Work Prog. give Sanctions to wake up longterm JSA - the annoying thing is he does try hard but is aged 50- up there every day, sometimes even on his day off but some others that dont do much dont get Sanctioned at all, just sit there all day reading the papers - probably because they know all the proceedures

 

You have hit the nail on the head there, JCP sanction the easy targets, it tends to be the honest claimants and those that may have learning difficulties, or other issues that get clobbered, it's not difficult for anyone with a bit of savvy to run rings around JCP, and they know it.

[osdset]

Here is a bit of an eye opener, a provider employee's frustration. http://indusdelta.co.uk/discussion/there_any_shred_humanity_work_programme/8788

[osdset]

My tales of woe were with Reed In Partnership, not Ingeus I know but as far as I am concerned they are all tarred with the same brush, most of the thirteen weeks of my incarceration I had constant run ins with an obnoxious little Muppet 'advisor' barely out of nappies, who had delusions of grandeur and a bad case of little man syndrome, I put up with this moron's rants and behaviour because he had the big stick at the time in terms of sanctions. I was back into work one week after finishing the 13 week sentence, and bumped into laddo in the toilet of a local pub, lets just say I gave him a 'severe talking to' in the old fashion sense:wink: And before anyone asks, no I didn't get arrested.

[osdset]

The tide seems to be turning, the pimps have realised that those that have some nous are not signing the data waiver's, its only a matter of time before the gravy train runs out of Bisto.