Ingeus

[Nystagmite]

How do I get sent to another provider, please? I'm with Tomorrow's People. I'm getting nothing at all from these sessions. I've been told to go on a course - despite being told that I will not have to go on to any more courses. They don't understand my disabilities at all.

 

This is the second provider I've been to, (the other being Remploy) and they've been useless.

[flumps1976]

You only have a certain number of providers in each area depending on who won the contracts, (Ingenus, A4E, Tomorrows People, SERCO, ESG holdings, Remploy) and I'm sure there were others but can't think of the names now, once you have been allocated to a provider you can be referred to another provider (that wprks either with them or alongside them) you cannot be taken from that provider and placed with a "rival" provider.

 

The providers must be able to provide their complaints procedure and by not doing so they are breaking part of their contracts, you can also inform the JCP ofthe issues and complaints but these cannot be escalated to the regional offices on their own they have to be backed up by customer complaints too or it is deemed just sour grapes on the JCP part iygwim?

[Bakatcha]

Hi Flumps

I really cannot believe that

bth parties believe things are going well

Nobody is that naive.

Any shortage of complaints is down to the unending complaints procedure that has to be gone through - usually to arrive at an inconclusive outcome - for the providers this is part of their work and they get paid to deal with it. For customers it is just an added burden. Of course there is always the fear that anyone complaining is branded a troublemaker with consequent retribution in the form of many hours compulsory "jobsearch", "training" or Mandatory Work Activity. With licence being given to the providers to do whatever they want (black box) and the JCP having little or no knowledge of what is actually happening the providers have been given a licence to bully.

It takes brave individuals to complain and carry through a complaint in such an environment.

[Nystagmite]

Thanks Flumps

[flumps1976]

bakatcha honestly the work programme provider management and the government believe that the programme is progressing well even if they are hoping to be able to renegotiate asking for extra money for their results due to the difficult economy!

They only believe it is going well due to the distinct lack of complaints so if anyone does have a legitimate complaint about the practises and not just becuase they don't like attending then they should make sure the complaints proceduure is followed so that they get a true reflection of the public perception.

 

Also the European Human Rights Centre (EHRC) are looking at outsourcing their telephony service and guess who is thought to be the preferred contender at the moment (according to the union newsletters), yep A4E!

[caledfwlch]

How do I get sent to another provider, please? I'm with Tomorrow's People. I'm getting nothing at all from these sessions. I've been told to go on a course - despite being told that I will not have to go on to any more courses. They don't understand my disabilities at all.

 

This is the second provider I've been to, (the other being Remploy) and they've been useless.

 

Have you considered telling your Advisor that you are "considering taking legal advice regarding the disability discrimination you feel you are facing from them, and how it applies to the Disability Discrimination Act"?

 

The fear of that being levied against them could well see a major change in how they deal with you. Also, if you genuinely do feel like you are being discriminated against, there is no reason why you cant go all the way and just make a complaint to the appropriate authoriities.

[Bakatcha]

That would be the supreme irony. Phoning up to check on your human rights and finding yourself speaking to A4e.

[flumps1976]

caledfwlch as I posted earlier that information will not make any difference sorry, once you are contracted to that particular provider unless they have a subsidary they can refer you to amongst their own group in that area you remain with them and in this case the only option is to follow the complaints procedure.

 

Under the old FND process customers could attend their local JCP office to advise that they weren't getting on with the providers and could request to be moved, this would be considered by the Adviser Manager and the personal adviser to establish if the transfer would be appropriate and a decision would be made.

 

Under the work programme this discretion has been removed and it is to stop the providers from cherry picking their customers (to ensure they only receive the most likely customers to return to work that will be long term to allow them to claim the higher reward payments).

[LongHairedLily]

I'm with sub contractor Scientiam (second stage of the WP) since mid March. On Wednesday I have to atttend a one day Health and Safety course. I can't understand why, I'm not applying for any jobs involving food etc! Any thoughts?

[flumps1976]

basically by the time you reach WP you have beenunemployed for at least 9 months (if 18-24) and 12 months (over 25) so you are required to be applying for all jobs that you capable asnd qualified to undertake. If tere happens to be more work available in the area that requires this qualification then that is why they are putting you on the course to maxmise your chances of gaining sustainable full time employment.

It doesn't actually matter to then what type of work you would like to do anymore.

[osdset]

Is it the food specific course or the general one?

[LongHairedLily]

Hi Flumps and Odset,

 

I think I best make them aware that I should not be working within a Kitchen. I have a genetic blood condition that causes my platelets to not clot. Already had three haemorrages all life threatening. I have to be so careful to not cut myself! Osdset not sure I will find out Wednesday, I think we all have to go on the course as a matter of..course!

[Nystagmite]

Kelly, are they aware of that? They can't make you apply for jobs which would put you and /or others at risk of serious danger.

[omskus]

My answers to the three questions asked by DMA. Lets see if they sanction me!

 

1) Why did you not provide the provider with ID to prove your right to work?

 

I DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE TO THE PROVIDER THAT I HAVE A RIGHT TO WORK. THIS IS A MATTER BETWEEN MYSELF AND THE RELEVENT GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES. THE MERE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN MANDATED ONTO THE WORK PROGRAMME WOULD SEEM TO INDICATE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK! IN SPITE OF THIS I SHOWED THE PROVIDER MY SIGNING ON CARD, REFERRAL LETTER AND I EVEN GAVE THEM SIGHT OF MY BANK DETAILS BY SHOWING THEM MY BANKCARD. THIS IS ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT IS REQUIRED TO PROVIDE MY IDENTITY.

 

2) Why did you not sign the Data Protection Consent Form?

 

AS PER MY LEGAL RIGHTS AND THE DWP GUIDLINES TO PROVIDERS I DO NOT NEED TO EXPLAIN MY DECLININING TO WAIVE MY RIGHTS UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT. THE FACT YOU ASK THE QUESTION IN THE FIRST PLACE IS GROUNDS ENOUGH FOR A COMPLAINT TO THE ICO AND/OR THE DWP.

 

3) Why did you not let the provider keep or copy your CV?

 

I AM ONLY REQUIRED TO SHOW THE PROVIDER THAT I HAVE A CV. I GAVE THE PROVIDER FULL ACCESS TO MY CV DURING THE SESSION. LEGALLY I AM NOT REQUIRED TO LET THEM HOLD OR DUPLICATE MY CV. AS PER MY LEGAL RIGHT I HAVE DECLINED TO ALLOW THE PROVIDER TO DUPLICATE OR KEEP MY CV.

 

 

Lets see how long they take to reply. I'll let you all know how I get on. Thanks to everyone who has commented and provided details (and template) for my reply.

[caledfwlch]

caledfwlch as I posted earlier that information will not make any difference sorry, once you are contracted to that particular provider unless they have a subsidary they can refer you to amongst their own group in that area you remain with them and in this case the only option is to follow the complaints procedure.

 

Under the old FND process customers could attend their local JCP office to advise that they weren't getting on with the providers and could request to be moved, this would be considered by the Adviser Manager and the personal adviser to establish if the transfer would be appropriate and a decision would be made.

 

Under the work programme this discretion has been removed and it is to stop the providers from cherry picking their customers (to ensure they only receive the most likely customers to return to work that will be long term to allow them to claim the higher reward payments).

 

I don't mean to get the advisor or provider changed. I am merely thinking that the threat of being sued for disability discrimination, might make the Provider treat Nystagmite better than they have been.

[flumps1976]

sorry misunderstood you, have been under the weather with a rather nasty virus so not been able to concentrate fully and have read and re-read posts.

I'm all for getting the providers to do what they are supposed to do, however I somehow doubt it will ever be as it should.

Again with something like this I honestly recommend following the offical complaints procedure and if that doesn't have any result then yes make further enquiries about the nextaction to take.

[osdset]

With regard to any complaints procedure the pimps have in place.

 

I was lucky enough to only experience w2w once, three years ago and for only 13 weeks, but during that time they 'lost' some significant forms of identification belonging to me, enough ID to facilitate identity theft in the hands of someone unscrupulous, every complaint was ignored, the management were totally indifferent because the advisor that was dealing with my paperwork had left, so they regarded the problem as leaving with her.

 

I received an apology and partial redress six months after I had completed my time with them, and only after my MP had written three increasingly stronger worded letters to the CEO.

[YorkyLad]

Maybe the issue that the government think that the Work Program is going well and they aren't aware of any complaints is due to the ridiculous complaints procedure in place. Surely the process of reporting to the work program provider makes them a self-regulating entity? This is how it seems to me.

 

I've complained about the unqualified medical advice I received (despite probably been true its not my advise'rs place to inform me of my need to visit doctors of the brain). This has been ignored.

 

I've complained about the misrepresentation of authority and bullying. This has been ignored.

 

I've complained about false data been provided to the DWP about me and no attempt to rectify it after it been pointed out. This has been ignored.

 

Any complaint of any substance will be brushed under the carpet. This is the Ingeus way.

[Optimist Prime]

Surely there must be an authority that regulates these people that they must answer to? Making a complaint to Ingeus, about Ingeus obviously isn't going to get anywhere, that's a given.

[soulfire]

Surely there must be an authority that regulates these people that they must answer to? Making a complaint to Ingeus, about Ingeus obviously isn't going to get anywhere, that's a given.

 

Does the DWP not regulate it, in a very remote way? The government more than likely views it as teething problems, its very easy for them to say they are learning from mistakes, the programme does work, and it will be improved. The whole WP is an odd system, the customer of the providers is actually the DWP, and somehow we are just caught in the system.

[osdset]

the programme does work, and it will be improved.

 

It works very well in getting level entry positions filled, if the claimant's over fifty, or highly skilled, or is management material forget it, w2w have a huge road to tread before they have the nous to place those types of candidates. it may well improve when the job market does, presently employers can cherry pick the cream of any candidates, those that find themselves on w2w generally do not fall into that category unfortunately.

[Bakatcha]

Does the DWP not regulate it, in a very remote way? The government more than likely views it as teething problems, its very easy for them to say they are learning from mistakes, the programme does work, and it will be improved. The whole WP is an odd system, the customer of the providers is actually the DWP, and somehow we are just caught in the system.

Quite right! To call those consigned to the WP "customers" is Orwellian doublespeak.

We didn't ask to be put on the WP.

We have no choice of provider.

We have little choice what they choose to do with us.

We didn't hire the provider.

We can't sack the provider.

We are in fact the goods or raw material out of which profit is to be made.

[Nystagmite]

Any complaint of any substance will be brushed under the carpet. This is the Ingeus way.

 

This is the impression I get. No-one can reassure me that what happened 3 times won't happen again. (given stuff that's inaccessible and then got the blame for not telling anyone. My adviser knew beforehand. It wasn't as if I hadn't said anything to her and then moaned about it)

[flumps1976]

No the DWP have no way of regulating the work programme, the companies tendered for the contracts from the government.

All I can suggest is that any complaint is made in writing with a request (put politely of course ) for confirmation in writing that the complaint has been received and will be investogated as set out in their complaints procedure.

The complaints are only measured by written submission, verbal complaints do not and are subsequently not recorded any where.

[andrea87]

Is there any way of getting out of this? I have been attending for months now and they are totally useless!! What will happen if I do not attend?