Ingeus

[Aelous]

Just looked at my Work Programme agreement that I received on my induction day, there's a section with "commencing date" and "ending date". The ending date is 6 months after the commencing date. I thought the work programme was for 2 years or am I wrong? If so, does anyone know what the procedure is after being with a work programme provider for a 6 month period?

[Ingeus DoLittle]

@YorkyLad,

I think that e-mails perfect, the fact that you’ve included the words “Legal Action” is enough for them to respond!

[beezley]

hello YorkyLad,

 

personally I would send a letter recorded delivery or in person and get somebody to sign for it, then they have no way of ignoring it.

 

I do think they have a time frame to reply (somebody on the board with more knowledge will be able to help you probably)

 

good luck

 

beezley

[YorkyLad]

hello YorkyLad,

 

personally I would send a letter recorded delivery or in person and get somebody to sign for it, then they have no way of ignoring it.

 

I do think they have a time frame to reply (somebody on the board with more knowledge will be able to help you probably)

 

 

I use read-notify which is the email equivalent of recorded delivery (with bells on) so when legal action begins they will lose.

 

@ Ingeus Dolittle, cheers, love the name!

[flumps1976]

Yorkylad I think they legally have 20 working days to forward a response to you.

[YorkyLad]

Yorkylad I think they legally have 20 working days to forward a response to you.

 

Thanks Flumps, do you have any idea if they have to respond to my request to know who they have shared my data with? (this is actually the inquiry of the three that I am most interested in)

 

I do not like my data finding its way into private commercial databases used for due diligence. People with money are able to make decisions about ALL OF US based on data and information (often illegally stolen) that even us ourselves are not aware of. Somebodies opinion about us, especially when subject to the process of digital chinese whispers, can have negative effects later on in life.

 

Having worked in the orbit of private databases historically myself i have formulated a mistrust and dislike for them. I do not like them been illegally fueled with my data.

 

(anyone unaware of the world of private databases please do some research... they were born out of the US Patriot Act... says it all!)

[YorkyLad]

Oh. Prompt reply.

 

Dear Mr Yorkylad,

 

Thank you for your request to see your records held by Ingeus UK. We are

happy to provide this information.

 

However, we are required by the Data Protection Act 1998 to obtain this

request in writing.

 

Please can you provide a signed and dated request in writing, with confirmation

of your name, address and National Insurance number?

 

Yours sincerely

[YorkyLad]

What?!?! The cheeky gits dated the letter 3rd May 2012

 

WTF?!?! what a woefull attempt at trying to cover their ass!!

[osdset]

Why are they asking for your NI number? So long as you can prove you are who you say you are, then it's irrelevant, if I was requesting the same disclosure from my my local authority for example, they would not be asking me for my NI number.

[YorkyLad]

I'm more conerned about them trying to get hands on my signature... which is something they currently have never seen.

 

i'm going to send:

 

To whomever it concerns,

 

Please consider this an official request for all details of the data and the data itself both collected and/or stored by Ingeus and any of its delivery partners regarding myself, Yorkylad.

 

Furthermore I am requesting all details of data transferred to any other body, company, person or organisation by Ingeus that relates to myself. I would like details of what the data was and a copy of it and also the identity of the body, company, person or organisation it was shared with. I am happy for HMRC/DWP and the Job center to be omitted from this as I am already aware of data transfers with them.

 

Please note that due to high levels of misrepresentation within Ingeus (the latest been the falsification of the date on the last email I have been sent) I am not prepared under any circumstances to provide any form of signature. If this is in any way obstructs my data request then Ingeus should be advised we will soon be entering into legal conflict in regards to this refusal or obstruction to provide these details.

 

Regards

[beezley]

Hi YorkyLad,

 

On the ico website ico.gov.uk/Global/faqs/data_protection_for_the_public.aspx#f5EED57A6-1B5C-4032-A7A3-22ECBBF66D3D

 

Q: Which Act allows me to get my personal information? And can they charge me?

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 gives you the right to apply for a copy of your personal information. You will need to put your request in writing, by letter or email, and send it to the person or organisation you believe holds this information. Make sure to put your name and address and keep a copy. It is a good idea to make clear you are asking for the information under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yes, under the Data Protection Act they can ask for a fee of up to £10.00 for each request made.

 

so what is writing in an email not writing? Maybe they think it's hieroglyphs

 

email should be sufficient

[YorkyLad]

so what is writing in an email not writing? Maybe they think it's hieroglyphs

 

haha, this had crossed my mind too. I'm not sure at all why the first written request didn't qualify as been in writing.

 

I have to admit that it looks like the date (3rd may) might not have been falsified. The documents meta-data says it was in fact created on the 3rd. I think they were possibly either waiting the max permitted amount of time before sending or had forgotten to send it or just wanted to p*ss me off. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over claiming to them that the date was falsified... its just a reflection of my mistrust based on their earlier shenanigans!

[flumps1976]

The 3rd was last Thursday, assuming 2nd class post, so if it wasn't produced in time to leave the same day it was posted on the Friday and with the Bank Holiday it could reasonably have taken this long to be delivered.

[flumps1976]

Yorkylad I don't work for Work Programme so really sorry but wouldn't know if they do share details or not, I only know how they always contact te JCP office to ask if they hold the correct details and I'm a right stickler for the rules and ask them to put requests in writing!

[YorkyLad]

Hi Flumps, thanks for the reply.

 

there really is no good reason that the correspondence from them should have been dated the 3rd May.... It was an email they sent today to me following my email this morning.

 

So.... one of two things has happened.

 

1) they wrote the email on the 3rd and sent it today dated the 3rd (which is odd)

 

or

 

2) they wrote the email today and inserted the fake date on (which they've been known to before)

 

Dates seem to be a bit of curious thing in my emails from Ingeus... This is not the first time this has happened.

[YorkyLad]

and just to correct my noobish self... the meta-data is not proof that the email document was written to me on the 3rd (despite only arriving by email today). The meta-data creation date could relate to any word document they created that day... that was then modified and sent to me today. It really stinks anyway you look at it.

[flumps1976]

sorry I must have mis understood and thought they had posted the letter as opposed to the email, as email is pretty much instant then not a leg to stand on for them.

[YorkyLad]

sorry I must have mis understood and thought they had posted the letter as opposed to the email, as email is pretty much instant then not a leg to stand on for them.

 

Probably more my own poor explanation. Yes, I agree. Emails dont tend to take 8 days to arrive. Although do seem to pop out from nowhere from Ingeus when legal action is mentioned.

[speedfreek]

2) they wrote the email today and inserted the fake date on (which they've been known to before)

 

Dates seem to be a bit of curious thing in my emails from Ingeus... This is not the first time this has happened.

 

I know this one

 

All emails have something called a header. The header contains details time/date Ip address and server name for everything it's passed through. The 1st of these will be the time & date stamp of server it was sent from. Everything an email does is automatically time n date stamped by whatever it passes through.

 

These are server side stamps and I'd seriously doubt any of these people would be allowed anywhere near a mail server let alone change the date on it. Plus once it leaves the mail system it will be stamped by bits of kit all over the interent which are way out of their control.

 

In hotmail web based open the message and on the right of the email addresses there's a menu drop down the thing you want is - view source

 

If you google view header for whatever email client you're using you should get it as it standard.

 

It has to be the actual original email headers you look at. Sorry edited that bit out as it was confusing me.

 

If appears that doing a forward or reply in hotmail will also show the actual sent time unless that's the thing you thinks changed.

Edited May 12, 2012 by speedfreek

[RaeUK]

... as email is pretty much instant ...

 

Not really, flumps. In the main, maybe, but it's not at all unusual for emails to either not turn up at all or to take many days. This is usually down to errors at the server. I've had several cases of disruption to my yahoo mail account due to this. 8 days may seem odd but by no means impossible ...

[speedfreek]

Not really, flumps. In the main, maybe, but it's not at all unusual for emails to either not turn up at all or to take many days. This is usually down to errors at the server. I've had several cases of disruption to my yahoo mail account due to this. 8 days may seem odd but by no means impossible ...

 

I can vouch for this and if you'd like a full explanation of how Email works and what happens to an email once it hits the internet I can do that too.

 

Everything computer based has a unique ID as it travels around it picks up/gets marked by tracking stamps which add ever more tracking information to the unique ID. It's how things find out where they are going get there then return home. It's not magic it's tracking and you can get all this tracking info if you know what to ask for.

 

With Email it's called headers these can be seen and read by anybody! You just have to click the expand button as they're hidden by default because if it arrives do you care? A header is created automatically when an email is sent and forms no part of the actual content of the message sent. It's an information wrapper.

 

When you press send that email is created and a unique ID assigned This ID can then be tracked internally within the mail systems it's sent. It is date n time stamped and this info is recorded in the header. If it going external over the internet to another mail systems before it leaves the unique ID is recorded it is then re-tagged and put in a new wrapper with send to and return addresses. This then gets passed externally to a new device that looks up the recipient address for the best route. If it finds a route it passes it to the next in that chain which then does the same. If it can't find the route it passes it to something it thinks may know it and the cycle continues until it reaches it destination. Every time it hits a new device it get re-wrapped and when that happens it is date n time stamped too.

 

Actual date/time sent and any delays can be seen in the headers. A delay is usually send fail/ retry fail which continues until something else accepts it.

 

What can cause delays? How long have we got here? 99.9% of the time it's decisions by IT managers not listening to people who know what they're talking about! The other 0.01% is hardware failure usually traced back to the cleaner needing a plug socket for the hoover

 

NERDS

[RaeUK]

Yes, well, thank-you speedfreek. Out of curiosity I selected a random email and viewed the header. Now my brain really hurts ...

[YorkyLad]

The header says it was sent on the 11th May... 4 hours after I sent my follow up email complaining they hadn't sent it promptly following my first request.

 

The date of the 3rd was just typed onto the email. It means nothing. The time stamping in all cases, everywhere in the header, confirms it was sent in the hours after my 2nd email. Despite the date suggesting otherwise.

 

so the chronology of events goes

 

1. I sent my first data access request. I sent it with the date Apr 30 b/cos that was the date I sent it

 

2. I issued my second data access request and informed them of legal action if they didnt pull their finger out. I sent it baring the date May 11 b/cos this was the day I sent it

 

3. Ingeus replied on the 11th of May. They marked it with the date 3rd May (i'm guessing coz they think that nullifies my threat of legal action for taking so long)

 

It would be kinda a smart trick. But its not smart so it's just a trick. A lame one imo.

[osdset]

Some interesting reading, Work Programme Provider Guidance PDF http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CHQQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dwp.gov.uk%2Fdocs%2Fwp-pg-chapter-9.pdf&ei=CDivT4z8LsOS8gO91MiMCQ&usg=AFQjCNFsNbPKtS7htrvlM9pBiI0E7kFBYw&sig2=vs7ZgnWvEAAC4wTN9aFEHg

Chapter 9 paragraph 37 onward is particularly enlightening.

[Bakatcha]

Yes osdset (welcome back from ID where we've been having some fun with Arrogance)

para 41 is particularly relevant to all those who ask "can the pimp contact my employer without my permission?"

The answer is a resounding "NO":

41. In order to support these processes and to comply with Data Protection legislation you will need to ensure that you have the participant’s written, informed consent allowing DWP to contact their employer/s directly. It is your responsibility to obtain this consent and to determine the optimum time for obtaining it. The participant consent form, which cannot be altered in any way because it contains the appropriate legal wording, can be found at Annex 1 of Generic Guidance Chapter 5 – Evidencing / Validating Payments. The declaration should be completed and signed by the participant and kept on file in your premises.