section 21 and housing associations being reasonable

[Nock2006]

sorry about the length of this post.

 

Our housing association served a section 21 and notice to seek eviction on same day, with arrears of rent including an amount the council had already sent housing benefit cheque at least 10 days before and that we were getting full housing benefit anyway. We owed around £120- were paying it off at £5 a week and despite constant reminders to do this, some handwritten and not dated from the tenancy officer (served 9 on the same day to neighbours) over the past year, we've reduced what we owe (originally about a months rent while housing benefit was reassessed last year). We missed 4 weeks- £20, after my husband lost his job, while JSA was worked out- we were living on only child tax credit and had been told the housing benefit was backdated, which we have proof of- the housing association knew the rent was covered. We made it up and now he says the rent arrears aren't the issue- but won't say what the issue is. We've got our council's homeless prevention officer calling him and also shelter- no one can get a response out him.

 

We offerred to pay off the arrears plus a weeks rent to put us in credit- he said it didn't matter but withdrew the notice to seek eviction, but not the section 21.

 

Previously we had a section 21 notice over rent I'd already paid- he agreed I could pay the rent in arrears of 4 weeks then denied it when I did it, came to the house and gave my husband the section 21- I'd already paid the rent and was furious, wrote back saying I'd get legal advice etc and he backed off, but this time it's not worked. Our 4th baby is due in 4 weeks and for the past few weeks we don't know if we'll have this house or not- the tenancy officer has to refer it to his managers. Apparently there's an appeal if they say we'll have to get out but no one will tell us how/when we can do this. My husband asked to speak to the managers and was refused point blank- so we presume they didn't know.

 

In the nearly 3 years we've lived here, we're had 7 notice to seek evictions and 2 section 21's- I admit I missed one months rent but it's a bit excessive and it's all over housing benefit delays. They refused to give us a assured tenancy- we're still on a 'starter' assured shorthold tenancy because they won't reassess it. Even our solicitor (who can't get involved with the section 21- have been refused by a few as it's got no defence in court and we'll loose our home if it goes to court) agreed the tenancy officer is on a power trip over the tenants- he's making everyone's lives hell with the uncertainty.

 

Tenancy officer has stalled for 3 weeks now, saying every week we'll hear but we haven't yet and it's getting to the point we feel sick when the letter box goes and I can't think about anything but this. We wanted to finish redecorating the boy's room before the baby arrived- seems like no point now.

 

Our notice to quit is dated 30th oct- 2 weeks after the baby is due and the tenancy officer knew this- he knows my husband was made redundant, that we're getting housing benefit, have 3 small children, am pregnant with heath problems (SPD- very painful pelvic/hip pain, use crutches to walk, will go away after the baby's born though, plus I have hyperemesis gravidarum, which is severe pregnancy sickness) and history of depression (post natal) and nowhere else to go.

 

The council said we'll be put in the hostel for 3-4 months while they rehouse us anywhere in the borough- will mean the children changing schools twice in that time and they're so happy here, plus we'll get put anywhere- including the area that I can't seperate in my head from 3 years of depression and haven't been back to since we left because I hate it so much.

 

We also noticed the tenancy officer (who told my husband he personally dealt with housing benefit cheques from the council) has delayed paying them into our rent account- up to 2 1/2 weeks late sometimes. We asked the council for a list of when they sent the cheques and the difference is huge on the past 3 months- 3 cheques delayed by weeks, when before it was 3 daysto clear. My husband asked where the cheques were for 2 1/2 weeks in June/July/August and the tenancy officer refused to say. It has no purpose but to make us look like we owe £500+ every month, when we don't. It keeps us always in arrears of over £300 all the time.

 

We don't know what to do anymore, been suggested we speak to our MP- but my husband isn't convinced he can actually stop it either and we're waiting on a response from the tenancy officer's managers now to see where we stand- if they're acting on the section 21 or not. I never knew it was legal to do that, their own housing charter from the housing corperation they're part of, states they must not apply to the court over housing benefit arrears and must be reasonable when serving notice to seek eviction, must not evict people over nothing etc, yet they can't give a reason that we're being evicted and were served this- he says the arrears aren't the issue but won't give another.

 

Can they honestly evict us just because they want to? Or should I be taking this to our MP and local newspaper... the housing association is for people on low income, who have been referred by the local council- it's not a private landlord who wants his house back, which I could understand. It just seems so wrong they can use a section 21 for no reason they can explain- we're not anti-social, smashing the house up or drug dealers or anything, we don't owe £1000's in rent and have paid off most of what we do owe and took responsibility for, I chase up the council for housing benefit if it's late paid in and do everything I can, yet it doesn't matter it seems- he can hold back our housing benefit when he likes and won't explain why... and now we don't know if we'll be here at christmas or not and the children are terrified they'll leave their schools and friends and everything- our 7 year old was crying about his toys if we leave- so if this is all a threat and they drop it- I hope the tenancy officer is enjoying the power he has to make little kids cry- I hope he's happy:x.

 

Has anyone else been through this type of thing and got it sorted out? I'd like the tenancy officer sacked and an assured tenancy but I doubt that will happen! I don't know how loosely they can interpret the housing charter, but it does say eviction is a last resort- it can't be used to threaten tenants etc- doesn't seem very last resort to me, never has!

 

Thanks (and sorry!) for reading this very long post!

 

D.

[Bookworm]

Ok, it might seem obvious, but have you been to your local CAB? They often have incredible knowledge on the most unexpected things, and more to the point, I bet they will have dealt with this particular issue and complaints about that person already. Local knowledge, you see.

 

If you haven't, I suggest you do so ASAP, meanwhile, I'll make enquiries.

[Nightmare4banks]

Nock2006,in reply to your post and in my personal opinion:

 

 

 

1.Threaten to take the council and housing association to the European Court of Justice because this tenancy officer chap is behaving above the law and acting in a totally unacceptable manner.If you want to do this you will need a solicitor that is specialised in human rights law.This should not cost you anything.

 

2.If you do not want to do the above,simply write a letter to the housing association(the chief executive/senior officer) threatening to sue as the stress is affecting you in big way due to your medical condition.

 

or threaten both!

 

I am sure you will notice a total different approach if you opted to do either or both.

 

I did this a few years ago - threaten to take the Council to the European Court of Justice by the way I never even went to a solictor but knew that I had a strong case against the Council.It did take long for the Council to change its approach when dealing with me.

 

I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[caro]

You need to speak to the Housing Manager, and if not someone higher up. I am not an expert on housing law, but I do work in accounts for a Housing Association and am convinced that the one I work for would not operate in this way. As you rightly say they are answerable to the Housing Corporation who I think would take a dim view of this. There is a pdf file on this link to the Housing Corp website about complaints. How to make a complaint : About your home : Home : Housing Corporation Housing Managers are often out of the office, so try phoning for an appointment.

 

I imagine the association has a website and complaints procedure. Take a look at that. It might also be worthwhile asking your doctor to write a letter to the Housing Manager to say that this action is putting your health and the babys at risk.

 

I hope things improve for you.

[Donel261]

If the matter does go to court ensure you attend (if you dont they will automatically get possession) and ensure that you see the court welfare officer beforehand, they can give you invaluable advice and can get the duty solicitor to represent you. I would also contact "shelter" or one of the local solicitors in the area who have funding to deal with housing matters. You need to do this quick, Shelter have an emergency advice line. Your local council homeless unit also have a legal duty to help prevent homelessness, which means giving you all of this advice on your rights and possible even coming to court with you. Do all of these things, he who shouts loudest.......

 

It is very rare that the judge gives possession on a housing association property, where it can be demonstrated there has been financial hardship or other critical factors. As long as you are willing to make payments off the arrears I cant see a probelm, deal with the little runt from the housing association afterwards. If they do get possession, approach your local council who have a duty to provide you with temporary accommodation until a decision is made on your application.

 

In relation to complaining about the housing officer, I would write to his boss, write to your local MP, who will contact his boss on your behalf, this usually works. Also threaten to report them to the housing corporation, they all have to work to certain standards, although I hate to say it, they also hate publicity on such matters "housing associations like to pride themselves on helping the most vulnerable in society blah blah blah... its how they get funding", contact a local consumer group like radio talk show, local papers.... etc.

[Guest S J]

What the poster needs is competant advice from someone with details knowledge of housing law. It is pointless asking questions on a forum where no one can see the documents you refer to.

 

The Housing Corporation produce a code and a guide on these points. Your local office are expected to only use possession as a last resort. Additionally, there may be an issue arround the notice and its accuracy. Cant say more without seeing it but it may be deffective.

 

There is no human rights issue so dont waste time making empty threats about Courts and ECJ. You will just make yourself look silly and be taken less seriously.

Seek advice without delay.

[Nightmare4banks]

Nock 2006,you should find the following details useful(however at first instance complain to your housing association as other posters have suggested):

 

Housing Ombudsman Service

Norman House

105-109 Strand

London WC2R 0PA

 

Tel.:020 7836 3630

Lo-call:0845 7125973

Fax:020 7836 3900

e-mail:ombudsman@ihos.org.uk

 

website:

 

Housing Ombudsman Service: Dealing with disputes and complaints against landlords and housing agents, and other housing disputes

 

I totally disagree that there cannot be any potential human rights issues here - with no disrepect to what you stated in your post - S J.

 

SO PLEASE READ ON....

 

This a report taken from the UK Parliament website regarding the implications of The ECHR and Housing Associations/Housing Ombudsman Service etc:

 

Joint Committee On Human Rights - Sixth Report

 

Anyway,Nock2006 I hope you find this information useful.

 

If you have any more questions,just ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!

[Guest S J]

I'm familiar with the Joint Committeereport and still say, based on what has been described, I dont see a HR issue. However, I am always open to other ideas...it would be good if you could say how this is a HR issue and what the breach is...

[Nightmare4banks]

Hi all!

 

S J,I feel like you desire to enter into a form of argument with me or the like,sadly you picked the wrong person.

 

To begin with,I would not do this because this would defy the objectives of this forum.I have found everyone on this forum extremely helpful and would go out to assist others in problematic situations as we can read and for nothing in return.However,I find your posts particularly to be the totally opposite - hindering!

 

ALSO JUST TO LET YOU KNOW.....

 

I find your previous post offensive to infer that what I posted is foolish because

anything that I post on this site is to assist others in types of problems is based either on my similar life experiences or those of others I know which have incidently involved dealing with mainly arranging mortgages,witnessing commercial leases,witnessing and drafting tenancy agreements etc.So,please do not suggest

I do not know anything about housing or property law.Also,I make sure that everything I post is well detailed and the information is completely accurate.

Also, on a seperate note I have practically dealt with the council on an unrelated issue and successfully used the ECHR argument in my favour due to the appalling treatment received from the council at the time.

 

Mods my sincere apologies,but I said what I had to say and the matter now is closed.

[Guest S J]

I have no desire to enter into an argument with anyone. Besides, a constructive discussion is always helpful to the wider audience rather than just the person making the posting, as you may be able to see from the 'views' box. There are others who may never post a question but simply rely on other replies.

 

I dont see how my posts are hindering on the basis of having challenged something that may be inacurate or misleading, with an invitation to enter into a discussion about it....as I said...I am open to the views of others. All I asked was that you say how it is a HR issue.

 

I make no inferences in any of my posts. If wanted to attack your post I would have done that directly and openly, which would make no sense or be of any help to anyone, hence the invitation to enter into a discussion and not an argument (as you have taken it).

 

I have no idea about your background or professional skills nor are they a concern of mine. Although, the concern I do have (which is aimed more generally at anyone making a reply) is about the quality of the information given. For most people who find themselves having to rely on a forum, it is usually the first and/or last port of call for help. As a result, there is an obligation, implied or assumed, on those who make replies which, disclaimers do not avoid. At the very least a persons situation should not be made worse by seeking help on a forum.

[Lisa Bowater]

I work for a H/A in the rent department, and can I just point out, were not all like the man you have had dealings with.

 

The section 21 is used with assured shorthold TA after of during the fixed term period or after [however slightly different wording of each, depending on when served i.e during or after] I would tend to request one is served when every other aspect for recovering the debt has been attempted [even including third party deductions] If the matter does go to court, I am sorry to say the power the section 21 holds means the Judge has no option but to award the outright possession order, which has intended to be sought by service of the notice. It is unlike the NOSP where a postponed possesion order can be granted or a adjournment granted [where appropiate]

 

Lisa

[Guest S J]

I'm affraid you have highlighted why so many HA's get it wrong. S21 notices are only an option for recovery after the expiry of a fixed term. If you are pursuing a debt (rent arrears) then the proper process is the s8 route. It would not be too difficult to undo any action based on a s21 notice where the real reason is rent arrears...arguably, such steps may amount to misleading the court and an abuse of process.....unless of course there is fixed term which has expired....