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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Things included in Bankruptcy and the best time


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Hi,

 

For a bit of background I am a single parent with a mortgage but no equity. I have just recently (last week) taken a £10k loan to clear credit cards and thought I was getting myself straight. However I just discovered that a case from Northern Rock that I thought had been closed last year may well raise its head again and they could win. This is for a joint unsecured loan in the region of £25k. If they decide to take this back to court I really couldn't pay anything else and am thinking that making myself bankrupt would be the only solution.

 

My questions are - Would the unsecured joint loan be included in the bankruptcy (wondering because it is in joint names)?

 

Secondly should I declare bankruptcy before they take the matter to court. If we go to court and get a CCJ and then declare bankruptcy would the CCJ be included and would the CCJ be cleared from the credit files? (Although don't suppose a CCJ matters when your registered as bankrupt)

 

Any advice gratefully recieved as always - I would panic so much without you guys for help.

 

Thanks x

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Yes the joint loan would be included in the bankruptcy. The creditor would pursue the other joint creditor rather than yourself as in most cases it would be a joint and several liability.

 

The CCJ would not be cleared by the BR and would remain on your credit file but as you state this would not make much difference because of the BR.

 

Personally I would wait for the case to come to court. What would be the point of declaring yourself BR only to find NR don't take it to court?

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Thankyou for the advice, it sounds sensible and what I was thinking myself.

 

In regards to waiting for them to take it to court - how long would BR take roughly, I am worried that if they take it to court and get a CO on my home this wouldn't then be included in the BR. And if they do get one is a CO discharged when you sell even if the full amount isn't repaid by the profit? I would be looking to sell my home in a year or so anyway and move in with my bf so that wouldn't bother me but wouldn't want to still have it hanging over me as there wouldn't be anywhere near enough (if anything at all) to repay what they are asking.

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Thankyou for the advice, it sounds sensible and what I was thinking myself.

 

In regards to waiting for them to take it to court - how long would BR take roughly, I am worried that if they take it to court and get a CO on my home this wouldn't then be included in the BR. And if they do get one is a CO discharged when you sell even if the full amount isn't repaid by the profit? I would be looking to sell my home in a year or so anyway and move in with my bf so that wouldn't bother me but wouldn't want to still have it hanging over me as there wouldn't be anywhere near enough (if anything at all) to repay what they are asking.

 

I would imagine, if you have the fee's to pay for the BR, then it would be done and dusted well, well before anything like a Charging Order made it into a court room. It will not come automatically with a CCJ - there all all sorts of hoops and hurdles before that would happen.

 

The only thing I would warn is the Insolvency Practictioner/Judge might look very darkly upon the fact you took a £10,000 loan out and then very quickly went bankrupt. Though if you are waiting until this £25,000 becomes a CCJ then you can cite that life has "changed" suddenly, and you never expected to have to go BR, till this 25,000 reared its ugly head again. People more experienced on here will have better advice regards that loan, than me :)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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If the full amount isn't dicharged by the sale of the property the balance becomes an unsecured debt which they can still chase prior to any BR. If the CO is made close to the BR it may be overturned by the OR as allowing a preference

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Thanks for the responses, in regards to the £10k loan I can prove that it was taken before I realised that things with NR hadn't finished. I can also prove that it was all used to clear credit cards debts so I was sincerly trying to get myself back on track by consolidating. I would have struggled a bit to make repayments but thought I could manage and envisaged a changed in circumstances in the near future as my bf was going to move in at the end of June! Do you think they will understand this? I really don't think I have any other options but to go the BR route, the stress and panic I'm am having because of this is not making a happy life for my little un and its not their fault.

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I would say that the story stacks up and you wouldn't have any problems with OR if you explained it like this. I can understand the stress you are under and if you think BR is the best option only you can make that decision. But as stated previoulsy why make yourself BR if NR don't come after you - why not wait to see what happens.

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The NR thing won't be statute barred for another 4 years and I don't think I can put up with the worry for that long. Also I would be struggling with my own debts for the next five years and trying to clear them and then NR could decide they are going to take me to court again and I'm back at square one. I think really need to just draw a line under it and get on with my life so my child and I can start having fun again without the constant worry of what has landed on the doormat while I've been at work! Thanks for the help and advice, I've made up my mind that BR is the route for me - wish me luck xx

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have just read your post. I wish you all the luck. You hit the nail in the head about drawing a line under it! My partner and I have been battling our debt problem for the last 3 years and it does take its toll on your health, relationship, work, family - its not good. You will prob see my post on this forum about my home and NR mortgage. At the end of the day, if I could draw a line under it and keep my home by going bankrupt, that would be an option I would take gladly. I have given myself one year and one last shot at sorting myself out. If not, then I don't care if I lose my home as happines is more important. If I was you I would go for the BR - but that is just my opinion - go for your peace of mind, start a fresh and enjoy the time you have with your family. Good luck. May be joining you on that register soon!

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