EGG now Apex - Defaulted twice for the same debt!

[removalman]

Hello,

I could really use some help/advice here please...

Some difficult personal financial circumstances resulted in Egg registering a default against me at the end of 2009 for unpaid unsecured loan of £8700.

 The debt appears to have now been acquired/assigned to a DCA called APEX Credit Management who have defaulted me again for the same debt! I have no contractual arrangement with them, nor did they send me any notices that they were about to take the action that they have.

So my credit file now shows two defaults for the same debt. Surely there must be some rules against this as it hardly seems fair. I know I could in theory post a notice of correction but they tend to be generally ineffective.

I would like to get this remedied and I need an effective stick to beat Apex around the head with. I suspect me just writing to them to ask them nicely will have little effect.

Help please?

[247orbital]

you need to contact egg and they will remove the listing, just make sure the default dates are the original egg dates. The debt has been sold to a DCA hence they resume responsibility for the information.

[harrassed senior]

Technically and legally you are only able to get one default per debt. What I suspect may have happened is that Egg have marked their entry as closed/settled etc. Then when it was 'sold' to a DCA they make their own entry, which should still show the original default date.

 

As you say you should have been notified that a 'transfer of interest' (assignment) had been made. Personally, I would try to get these 2 entries 'amalgamated' or the second entry removed by writing to the cras seperately, let them investigate, it is not your job to assist in any way.

 

Others will be along shortly with their advice.

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry but I don't agree with either of the above posters.

 

I think that you have fallen the team to a typical tactic that is carried out within the debt collection industry – and that is that as soon as they get a file they begin by defaulting it. It is extremely unfair, but that is what they do. I have never seen any written rule that prevents it, but clearly it is unfair and to my mind it is also the equivalent of "over processing" which is against the Data Protection Act. You will find that if your present DCA gives up and sells the file on, that you are likely to be defaulted again by the next one.

 

If you search on the forum you will find that there are discussions about multiple defaults for the same debt. I really do think it's about time that this matter was tackled. If you were up for it then I would suggest that you begin a Data Protection Act action against the DCA and also against the credit reference agency. Don't expect an easy ride though.

[dpick]

Hi I had this with a Littlewoods account they had defaulted the account then passed it to dca who also entered a default on a later date. Complained to FOS they made DCA remove the second default.

 

dpick

[247orbital]

you can not be defaulted for the same debt twice that is a fact, the only correct default date is the one from the OC not the DCA. If there are two defaults for one debt write to the OC and ask for the original date of default and would they please remove the listing. When you have the OC default date in writing its down to you if you want to contact the DCA or make a complaint to the FOS or ICO.

[BankFodder]

I quite agree that it is unfair to be defaulted twice the same debt. However, I wish it was as easy as the previous poster has suggested. The experience on this forum is that it is extremely difficult to have this kind of entries removed.

 

Still, give it a try if you want. However it is about time that somebody stood up and these people in court of law and I certainly think one could invoke the FSA regulations and say that is not Treating Customers Fairly.

[removalman]

If you were up for it then I would suggest that you begin a Data Protection Act action against the DCA and also against the credit reference agency. Don't expect an easy ride though.

 

Thanks for your views on this. Can you enlighten me as to what a Data Protection Act action would entail?

[247orbital]

Natwest removed a double default of mine within days of receiving a letter. The DCA's remained. It was identical in every way with correct default dates etc. However I do have another from HFO which is for a different debt but has an incorrect date which I will be contesting very shortly.

[BankFodder]

the best thing to do is to start off by writing to the DCA and telling them that you have been defaulted twice the same debt that you object to it and that you want the default removed. Also write to the credit reference agency and point out to them also that you have been defaulted twice for the same debt that this is unfair it is contrary to FSA regulations and that you wanted removed – not just a note of correction.

 

I don't think you are likely to have much joy – but you never know. I think that you should point out to both of these people in the same letters that you will be complaining to the Information Commissionerand also to the FOS that you have been unfairly defaulted for a second time on the same debt.

 

If you don't hear something positive from the DCA or from the credit reference agency within about 14 days, then you would have to consider issuing a court claim.

 

The best way to find out what this involves would be to buy Patricia Pearls' book on small claims procedure in the County Court. You can get it through this website at a pretty good price. You can get it for about a pound cheaper from Amazon.

 

The claim that you will be making would be on the basis that: –

 

By being defaulted twice for the same debt you are being treated unfairly contrary to FSA regulations

 

That there is a breach of the Data Protection Act as your data is being overprocessed.

 

Let me say to you that this action would be fairly pioneering – although not particularly risky. It is pioneering because I don't think anyone has ever bothered to take this kind of action before – but as I said somebody needs to stand up to this kind of double default dealing. It is extremely unfair and the DCA's in the credit reference agencies are frankly out of control and they don't seem to pay heed to anybody.

 

It's up to you, we would support you. But you will have to do a lot of learning and it will require a lot of energy.

[247orbital]

If the OC has sold the debt to a DCA they will remove it they just need to be informed about the mistake. I would always stay away from contacting any DCA as it seems to just open the letter/threat floodgates to them. It wouldn't hurt to notify the CRA just so there is a paper trail for when/if you complain to the FOS/ICO.

Just remember the DCA's default will stay regardless as they now control the processing of your data regarding the debt not OC.

[BankFodder]

well go ahead and try and we'll see what happens. Frankly I have my doubts but I hope that I'm wrong. Of course the other unfair thing which I think also should be challenged is that if the original creditors default is removed, and these are the new one which has been entered by the DCA begins for a further six years. This is also unacceptable and I think it is an example of over processing. It seems to me absolutely correct their default should be entered by the original creditor and the date of the default. If they defaulted account is then sold onto a DCA it is already default doesn't become defaulted again. When the present DCA gets fed up and decided to sell it on, a new default will be entered which will then begin another period of six years. This is completely wrong and completely unfair and am sure that it could be dealt with.

[247orbital]

that doesn't often happen but its always worth keeping CRA files that prove the dates of default.

 

Points the consider:

 

There is ONLY ever one default date, the Original creditors

 

If the OC sells the debt to a DCA the default date remains the same they CANNOT enter there own date.

 

Write to the OC informing of the double listing and asking them to remove it.

 

Write to the CRA infroming them of the double listing and the DCA's INCORRECT default date.

 

ALWAYS keep a paper trail of everything you send.

[removalman]

Thanks to everyone for their views/comments.

I have today written to Apex (the DCA) putting them on 14 days notice that as they applied the second default it is their responsibility to remove it or have the original default notice from Egg removed. I don't care which is removed as long as one of them goes!

A copy of my letter to Apex will also be sent today to all of the CRA's.

Ironically, its not really going to make any real difference to my credit rating which is already shot to pieces but I believe there is a principle here that needs to be addressed and I'm ready for a battle.

[247orbital]

The DCA won't remove the listing as they now control your data as they have purchased the debt from Egg.

 

Its Egg and the CRA you need to contact.

 

You need to make sure that the default date listed by Egg is the same as the DCA's.

[removalman]

You may be right, but as its the DCA that has applied the second default I believe they have a duty of care to ensure that information is processed in a correct and appropriate manner.

I don't care which of the two defaults are removed, but the DCA needs to take responsibility for ensuring one of them is removed. If that means that they talk to Egg, then so be it.

The dates for both defaults are the same - so at least there is some consistency.

I'm hoping the CRA's will ensure the right thing is done as well.

We shall see...

[247orbital]

OK keep us posted.

[cerberusalert]

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

 

52

When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

53

If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

54

Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

ICO Filing Defaults - version_v3 doc.pdf

[removalman]

Brilliant!

 

Hopefully they'll pay attention to an ICO document.

 

Many thanks!

[ashmk]

This happened to me. I contacted experian and they got it removed. They also alerted all the other agencies.